Oceania Beazley vs. Crean

In a perfect world, these sorts of disputes would be settled in a WWE style, all-out wrestling deatmatch... to the death...

...

Anyway, I'm not really a politically minded person, not compared to a few of the people on this board, and at the end of the day I'd rather vote for Johnny Howard over either Beazley or Crean, but that's not really the point.

The point is Crean couldn't find his a$$ with both hands tied behind his back, IMHO, and if I was a Labor voter then I'd much rather see Beazley as Leader than Crean.

So, yeah, discuss. Or don't. Or wonder if, with a bit of makeup, Crean really would look like Dubya...

 

I have traditionally been a Labour party voter, and prefer Beazley over Crean. I really don't like Crean at all as leader. He is a good politician, but not as leader of a party.

Of all choices, I would now probably prefer Peter Costello.

Although I no longer believe in the two party system. Just like in America with the Democrats and the Republicans, here with Liberal and Labour... they are just one and the same. It REALLY is a one party state. Honestly, how much do their policies differ? They are all sitting in the center of the political spectrum now... doesn't give a varied range of choice.

 

I actually think that you're right about the similarities Syrix - though George W Bush has some Mel Brooks circa Blazing Saddles, whereas Crean looks more like Maxwell Smart.
(and our PM has the whole Mr. Sheen look downpat...)

Cosmetic bashings aside, it's really a case of who cares. I was a former leftist who grew out of those politics, and now I'm a total centrist. I vote for whom I think is best suited to the job. The fact I live in blue ribbon Liberal seats (Lane Cove at NSW State level, Bennelong at Federal level) doesn't help my conscious "issue voter" status one bit.

The ALP is simply in the same state the Liberals were under when Hawke and Keating ran the show. The Liberals then couldn't challenge the leadership of the government effectively. The ALP is in the same boat.

I would prefer Beazley because he at least gave the ALP a fighting chance. IIRC, the ALP had more votes than the LNP last Federal election, just not more seats. Crean is a waste of space, IMHO.

Vote Quimby.

E_S

 

John Howard as Mr. Sheen? Somebody once said, "Tony Blair and John Howard ... James Bond and Austin Powers, ladies and gentlemen!" Seems much more fitting. Though Crean as Maxwell Smart seems about right.

 

The only reason the ALP lost last time, was becuase the electorate got scarred by John Howards refugee's thrown overboard lies.

 

If people only voted Liberal because of the children overboard incident then they are stupid and shouldn't have their vote counted.

Of course, no one would've voted on issues such as the economy, migration, boreder security, strong leadership, etc, etc. Nope, only on children being thrown overboard

 

Saintheart, amigo, take a look at a picture of Mr. Sheen.

E_S

 

It's exactly because people have taken stances similar to Ender's that our state is turning into one of a single party. If people swing their votes so much, then traditional support is lost and the parties must chase voters in the short term. It has been claimed that the swinging vote wins elections, and you only have to look at statistics to look at why this is. The parties are playing popularist politics and it's working, regardless of their origins.

Howard looks like a shaved ewok (they missed the eyebrows).

 

If people only voted Liberal because of the children overboard incident then they are stupid and shouldn't have their vote counted.

Stinky, I'd encourage you to talk to your Liberal contacts, and have them pass policy that states "people who only vote on the basis of mistruths stemming from governmental and/or media hyperbole and other forms of baseless rhetoric shall not have their vote counted."

Under such a system, you may end up seeing a Greens Majority Government.

It has been a winning Liberal strategy to play the Media like their mistress, each well timed moan both frightening and enticing the voyueristic onlookers that constitute the great unwashed.

You see, we can't vote for the ALP if they are going to go soft on those diseased, dirty terrorists in their big frightening leaky boats: Australians will not welcome terrorists who sacrifice their children to try and get rescued themselves.

It's just not the Australian Way. We look after our kids...or at least, we charge them 100k for University and deny them public healthcare.

But bloody hell, we look after 'em better then some damn terrorists throwing kids overboard!!

Oh, and Gath? Can that idea of Costello being good. I may have to impart the story of his excellency's time here on my University's grounds how he had to be forcibly removed from our political arena because he was threatening to destroy the MSA budget.

you think Howard has lied, you think Howard is a conservative: just you wait for Costello to reveal his TRUE colours.

 

It's exactly because people have taken stances similar to Ender's that our state is turning into one of a single party. If people swing their votes so much, then traditional support is lost and the parties must chase voters in the short term

Jeez, sorry for not jumping on some ideological bandwagon. Heaven forbid I don't tie myself to inflexible ideologically driven party platforms.

Your statement is full of **** for two reasons.

1) "I think the puppet on the left represents my views best. I think the puppet in the right represents my views best... Wait a moment! It's just the one guy!" - But the Labor/Liberal puppet is the BEST of the two, right?

2) Both parties have their heads up their asses, it's whomever can talk the most clearly in that state that gets my vote.

Nothing, NOTHING p***** me off more than people who vote for a candidate because it was their party's choice. You mindless automatons. It's like when I talk to Americans in the Senate - "why did you vote for Bush?" "'Cause I'm a Republican!" they cry. Good for you, you're also the reason that misanthropy was invented. There is nothing more telling of limited means than voting for one party candidate because you are a party supporter. Nothing. If you vote for a Labor or Liberal candidate just because you are a social democrat or a conservative - and NOT because what they say makes sense, but because you're compelled to in the same way you support a football team - you are the one causing this country's political system to suffer. No one party holds a monopoly on the good of the country. So why act like it does? Whoever talks the talk and walks the walk best gets my vote.

If Keating were leading the ALP, I'd be a Labor man again.

"Pffft, Ender doesn't wear blinkers and limit his ideological perspecive. let me scoff at him because I have tied myself down and I'm upset because I backed the losing team."

Next time you want to try and indict me on something, Rogue_Product, do it right, ok? Don't have a go at me because you decided you'd limit yourself and your worldlook on partisan grounds. It's not my fault.

E_S

 

Every time I think of Simon Crean, I think "I challenge the Prime Minister to a fight with wet newspaper."

If he had even an ounce of charisma, he could've turned the Australian voting public over to his side with all the recent crap that the Liberal leadership has put out. I think Beazley leading the Labor party to the next election is the right decision.

I would've preferred seeing Aden Ridgeway head up the Democrats. I think he would make a great leader. Never going to happen though.

 

Sil, I agree Simon lacks Charisma that Kim has, but lets put a few things in perspective.

Firstly, he has been unfairly marginilised by a largely agenda filled media, and not in the least a rather well executed campaign by the liberal party to make seem like an utter fool.

But if we look past how well he is saying things, and to what he is actually SAYING, we may actually notice his policies, which are bloody good.

They are a viable, and quite different alternative to the halcyon economic rationalisism of the Howard Administration. They show us a radical shift from the usual ALP party line, which may speak of the current reshuffle along Union lines they are undergoing.

I agree with Ender in that voting for a party because you always have is nigh on ludicrous. But that DOESN'T mean simply because you feel one party represents your idealogy domestically better then the other that you haven't thought about or used your vote wisely.

Look at the policy, compare them, and listen to the committment spoken in each of the words.

And think to yourself: where do I want MY country to be in 10 years time. Answer that question, THEN you can perhaps wonder if it is WORTH you making an informed choice or not.

Ender may get angry about automatic voting, well something pisses me off even more then that: uninformed, "because Andrew Bolt said so" voting.

And people that stupid should be rounded up and severely educated. Severely.

 

You mean with a paddle, PoT?

I agree that Crean does actually have some sensible ideas, but he doesn't present himself well enough to the electorate. And like Sil, I expect to see him smashing chocolate royales on his forehead and opening a VB with his eye socket (but cheating so he does the "psssst" sound with his mouth).

E_S

 

Crean has somehow managed to get the ALP up to about the same popularity level as the Liberal party yet his own personal popularity has remained low. If someone with an ounce of charisma (ie. Beazlebubb) got the ALP leadership, I think we'll be seeing an ALP government in a couple of years.

 

Yeah, I agree with that assessment stinrab, though I find it cruel you had a dog named stinrab too!

E_S

 

Is that due to the image of the ALP improving or the Liberal's image being degraded publically.

 

I would HOPE it is due to the fact that a sensible, informed Australian public has seen the ALP release intelligent, socially minded and fair policy alternatives to the liberal ones, which through the last budget have been exposed to severely undermine the ability of the middle to low income classes to meet the ever increasing cost of living.

But Australia being the cess pool it is, the more likely explanation is that someone in the Liberal Party pissed off Rupert Murdoch and/or Kerry Packer so the Australian Media has began to target their immoral policy and idealogy exposing it to the public.

Oh well, it's a means to a good end I suppose.

 

I want Crean to win. This makes it a sure bet the Coalition is reelected again. And Crean will win, he has the numbers in the ALP caucus.

But even if he doesn't win and Beazley suceeds him as opposition leader, it only serves to lower the Coalitions chance at winning the next election from 'Guarenteed' to only 'Highly Probable'.

Don't worry PoT one day the revolution will come...when we are all ritured living off our self-earned superannuations without any meddling from the parasitic governemnt!

 

Ah just as I expected...Simon Crean retained the leadership...paving the way for Coalition control until possibly 2007

 

Oh, stop gloating Marv!

E_S

 

2/3 voters want Kim Beazley

Yet the ALP puts in 17% Simon Crean




Good to see we have an opposition which listens to the people

 

Maybe they think ignoring popular opinion is the key to leading this country.

 

Well it worked for John Howard...

 

Pssst, that was the "joke", Tek

 

Just because Crean won this vote, don't expect him to lead the party at the next election. If history in politics has shown us anything, it's that it takes more than one go to knock off a party leader.

In six months time, with Crean still in the doldrums of the popularity polls, I predict another change in leadership. Whether this be Kim Beazley (let's face it, he's more of a leader than Crean will ever be), or someone else, I definitely think it will happen.

All I could think of last night when Crean showed his face was "you pompous git."