Can you be a right winger or a left winger

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by beezel26, Dec 22, 2013.

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  1. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
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    I LOVED that! He went with Obama because he knew the President was in a position to DO something…he put the needs of Jersey ahead of his political needs…Romney was just looking for a PR boost.
  2. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
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    I'm not American but I'm sure there must be "centrist" people like me out there in USA land that subscribe to the idea that both sides of the political spectrum have good and bad qualities and so a nice little mix in the right balanced proportions is probably ideal. Politics is like a diet, a little bit of everything in moderation is ultimately better for you than just sticking to one kind of food type.
  3. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    I would be one such person. Despite what some here might believe of me, I can and have voted for Republicans as recently as the 2012 elections. However, thanks to gerrymandering, I have a different Republican Congressional representative, so I'll have to look more closely into her record and rhetoric come next cycle.
  4. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    Is American politics so polarised that there are not large numbers of right leaning lefties and left leaning righties? All I see in the US media is the fight between Czar Obama and his communist agenda and the Tea Party who want to elect Jayzus as President. I appreciate you have to take the religious fundies out of the equation, but for normal people there must be a sense of being fed up with media fed polarisation surely?
  5. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    Though I only have been able to vote since 2007, I've voted for a few Republican candidates every Election Day, generally in the House of Representative race since mine is the corrupt Charlie Rangel . This year though I voted straight Democrat (and Socialist Worker for the House) since the recent shutdown made me sick of all Republicans.

    I actually think the gun control debate sees a lot of people who are centrist, despite what you might think of the arguments on social media and the actual media. Especially here in New York, I've seen conservative who are pro-gun control and liberals who are anti-gun control.
    Last edited by Point Given, Jan 4, 2014
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  6. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

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    Hang on. What state are you in? I know there were some minor elections this year, but nothing major.
  7. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    New York. We had the Mayoral election, City Council and various local jobs.

    Now that I think about it, it was 2012 when I voted against Rangel.
  8. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    I almost exclusively vote Democrat, however I would have voted for McCain in 2008 if Sarah Palin hadn't been his running mate. Too much bat**** crazy for me to vote for them in good conscience.
  9. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

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    Jun 9, 2011
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    I'm Republican, but McCain did make a very big mistake in picking Palin for his running mate. I can understand the appeal of having a woman on a party ticket (not the first time, either), but I don't think she really had enough experience near the political top as McCain did. Even my parents weren't thrilled about it. The 2008 election was my first Presidential election as a voter.
    Last edited by Skywalker8921, Jan 4, 2014
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
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    Palin didn't bother me nearly as much as she bothered most people on the left, and if I hadn't liked Obama, McCain might have gotten my vote.
  11. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    Well, your first problem is conflating Christians with the political right. I know for a fact that it is indeed possible to be Christian and not be aligned with U.S. conservatism. The converse is also true that it is possible to be conservative and not Christian.

    Secondly, problems always arise when one attempts to use religious doctrine as the basis for policy or politics. As this thread bears witness, whenever you attempt to do so, the discussion inevitably shifts from the validity of the policy to the validity of the religion.

    The teachings of my Faith form an integral part of how I live my life, including of course the electoral choices I make and the policy initiatives I support. However, those policies must have a secular rationale for the reason I've listed above. Moreover, and you might wanna sit down for this, not everyone believes as you believe, but this does not preclude them from supporting the selfsame policies as you. For these reasons, I seldom bring up the religion-based foundations for policies I support, because they would be a distraction.

    Thirdly, and this is the cynic in me, our system is rife with individuals who are very adept at hijacking religious belief for political gain. This relates to the second issue, in that believers are browbeaten by the Appeal to Authority Fallacy. By that, I mean politicians are adept at deflecting questions about the validity of their policies into questions about the validity of the religion, which few devout believers are wont to do.
    Last edited by Jedi Merkurian, Jan 4, 2014
  12. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

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    Jun 28, 2006
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    This is.... surprisingly not nearly as common as I'd hope. California is an area where there's a lot of fairly reasonable Republicans, and a lot of fairly out-there Democrats, but I know a lot of people that consider it bad to vote for a Republican, no matter what, and refuse to ever do so. It's sadly not about looking at the candidates and the platforms so much as it is a decision of who they don't like, which has always disappointed me. There's a lot of people that want to ensure that the party they don't like has zero influence on politics.

    There is a growing category of voters that are registered as independents, but I'm not sure to what extent they're actually independent. I do know a couple, though, that are, and it's very refreshing to talk to them because they share my sort of open stance on looking into candidates. Personally, over the last 2 election cycles (2010 and 2012) I've voted for candidates representing 4 of California's 6 political parties, and I try to be vocal about voting for third parties because I'd like to see those numbers grow to make these elections more competitive. I would be fairly hard pressed to find too many others that have done the same, I think.

    It's worth noting that in all the polling leading up to that election, McCain was polling as the most competitive against both Obama and Clinton. Guiliani was something like 10% further back, so I think it's questionable to say that Guiliani would've actually had a better chance of winning. It's far more reasonable, imo, to say that McCain probably could have won, had he not had such bad handling and, seemingly, outside pressure. Like the whole Palin thing, which I thought came from outside his camp.
    Last edited by Lowbacca_1977, Jan 4, 2014
  13. Moviefan2k4 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2009
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    My stance on gun control is very simple, really. The Constitution says we have a right to bear arms, and that right should not be infringed. Regulating them to prevent irresponsible or mentally ill people from getting them is one thing, but taking any variant away altogether crosses the line. The weapons themselves are not to blame, so penalize the crooks as people.
    -Jedi Joe- likes this.
  14. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    Not really on-topic.
  15. Endor_boy Jedi Master

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    Dec 24, 2013
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    I'm a lefty. I vote Democrat usually, but if there's a good third party option I'm all for that. I'd much rather see some stronger third parties rise up and break the two party system, but at least in my area, good third party options aren't an option.
    My entire family are hard core Republicans. They're mostly socially liberal or moderate. I understand that not everyone who disagrees with me politcally is an Evil Nazi. Does it still sting a little for my family to be voting for candidates devoted to denying me any kind of legal equality. Absolutely, but I'm used to it. My father will occasionally give me grief for voting Democrat, as he's convinced Obama is the spawn of the Devil.
    -Jedi Joe- likes this.
  16. Moviefan2k4 Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 29, 2009
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    Someone above mentioned the gun control debate, so I chose to address it.
  17. grd4 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2013
    It's laughable to designate the Democratic Party of the past thirty years as "left-wing." The majority of their members may be liberal on social issues (e.g., reproductive rights, gay rights) but in regards to economic issues, which defines whether one truly is left-wing or right-wing, they've proven to be center-rightists.

    If Obama honestly was a socialist, or even a liberal, would he be surrounding himself with deregulationist Rubin disciples such as Larry Summers? Wouldn't his Justice Dept. be prosecuting the speculators who embroiled us in this mess? Wouldn't we be seeing progressive appointees such as Richard Wolff, Robert Reich or even a moderate like Paul Krugman?
  18. Endor_boy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2013
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    Well, I am a lefty, and most of the time I vote Democrat because it's the lesser of two evils. I'm well aware that I'm much farther to the left than the reality of the Democratic party, but that's all I've got to work with. I live in rural Oklahoma, we don't get a lot of liberal third party candidates.
  19. grd4 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Endor-Boy: I understand the tactical wisdom of "lesser-evilism," but the problem is that moderates and liberals don't hold the Democrats' feet to the fire while they hold the reins. We're so distracted by the bat-guano insane antics of the Republican knuckle-draggers (oh look, mandatory transvaginal ultrasounds!) that we settle for the mediocrity offered up by the Other Side.

    If labor unionists could hold FDR's Democratic Party to account, why can't we do the same to Obama's? If they want to raise the minimum wage by a dollar or two, why not demand a living wage? If they present us with the tepid ACA, why not demand a public option attached (or push for universal health care)?

    We have leverage, but we ain't using it.
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  20. Endor_boy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2013
    star 1
    It is easy to get distracted by the insanity that comes out of the Republicans. Sally Kerns, a local politican, made the news for saying that gays were more harmful to America than terrorists, and she was supported by her party. Out here, I say the Democrats are like Republicans, and the Republicans are like Nazis.
  21. MasterSanders Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2014
    star 1
    Well I'm a conservative, meaning I usually vote Republican, but I think the whole system is broken and that our country is gonna fall apart sooner or later... I'm just hoping that Texas secedes then I won't have to worry about the liberal agenda anymore and maybe we will kick out people from Austin but who knows.... lol

    But overall politics is so crooked on both sides and the real thing that is plaguing America is Political Correctness... I miss the days when people could just say their opinion and that be the end of it, instead of having one side or the other crucifying someone for their beliefs... I just want freedom of speech to mean something not just something that we have on an old document, either we have the freedom to state our opinions, sexual preferences gay or straight or anything in between, racial pride of any race, religious beliefs even the crazy scientologists and mormons and just say what we believe.... Who cares if you believe I'm wrong and if I think you are wrong.... Just everybody get along and don't get your panties in a bunch if someone says something that hurts your poor little feelings....
    Last edited by MasterSanders, Jan 4, 2014
  22. grd4 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2013
    You have my sympathies, Endor-Boy, but we've gotta find ways to lob monkey-wrenches into this machine, because this country deserves better than the corrupt Donkeys and the corrupt-and-seriously-crazy Elephants on parade.
  23. Moviefan2k4 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2009
    star 3
    Some of Obama's closest advisers include Joe Biden, Valerie Jarrett, and David Axelrod...all three of which have connections to Communism. Axelrod was directly mentored by David Canter, a lifelong Communist who refused to testify against that group in a court of law. Jarrett's grandfather Robert Taylor was also a Communist.
    Last edited by Moviefan2k4, Jan 4, 2014
  24. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Actually, the word you're probably looking for is Fabianism. Also see: boiling frog syndrome. Also see: favouring single payer healthcare, but accepting one may not get there immediately.
  25. -Jedi Joe- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2013
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    I would definitely call myself a moderate who doesn't believe in the "lesser of two evils". The 2012 election was my first election and a majority of my votes were for a third party, including that joke of a presidential race. You can say I lean libertarian, because I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. In the end, though, I'd say I'm in the center, simply because I have friends and family on both the left and the right who vehemently disagree. Live and let live.
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