Senate Cheating on a significant other or spouse

I made this exact argument when discussing Tiger Woods' shenanigans that ultimately led to his divorce. For all we knew, given the sheer volume of opportunities he had, he was faithful 99.9% of the time.


Edit: Of note, my fiancee was not impressed with this argument.

 

The idea that you can't discuss the morality of a situation that you haven't been in is ridiculous.

 

What constitutes an "opportunity"? A lot of people in monogamous relationships have plenty of others who would be willing to have sex with them after having a drink together or dating or whatever. Or is an opportunity just something a mega-celebrity like Tiger Woods gets-- women almost literally jumping on him everywhere he goes?

 

Well, far be it for me to suggest there's a degree of ignorance in inexperience but, there's a degree of ignorance in inexperience. I learned that when I, after spending years being anti-cheating, cheated. Turns out perspective and experience are useful.

 

im having a glimmer of memory that GenAntilles is an evangelical christian, and i think this might be his attempt at slippery-slope trolling, or "OZKing", as i have come to think of it

 

Also, infidelity is easier, the environment is much more opportunity-rich when you're young. By the time you've gained the requisite wisdom and experience that comes with earlier bad judgment, you're also a bit more withered and spent, and thus also get the benefits of a virtue that comes with not really being in the game.

 

Is it? I'm pretty sure middle-aged and elderly people continue to be sexually active. There are usually about as many of them--and often more--than there are younger people, too, unless we're outside of the industrialized nations.

 

Well in my case, it was a bit more environmental. I was living overseas but had a GF back in Australia, which is such a selfish move that it already hints at what's to come. I'd been anti-cheating for some time, just because I'd been cheated on when I was about 18 and it feels awful, frankly. But anyway, I'm 6 weeks into living in a country so alien and foreign, without having formed much of a network of friends because work didn't start just yet and I'd met one American girl who I lived with. We were the only ones each other knew, got drunk one night in, and slept together. It was really strange as I wasn't especially attracted to her, nor had I been planning on it. It just kind of happened, a combination of drink and isolation and loneliness from both of us. I felt awful afterwards, but I learned a lot about assumptions and about how easy cheating can be. The key point though is that empathy lesson of "sure, I feel bad, but that's guilt. I've hurt, deeply, another person here..."

I've never done anything like it since, and it's now about 9 years ago that it happened. But comments about how someone shouldn't, mustn't, never would etc... it's not that easy. It's wrong, it's totally wrong and selfish and if you feel the need you have to do the honourable thing by your partner even if you also still love and want them. Make a choice, rather than being greedy, in other words.

 

Oh I am a Christian. But I've decided when arguing social or political issues from now on to avoid using any of my religious beliefs in any arguments. I will not push or mandate anyone adhere to my beliefs or morality on anyone.

If you don't view cheating as immoral then it is not. If you feel lying and deceiving are moral then they are. If causing others emotional pain is moral to you then it is. I personally think cheating is immoral for me to do, but another may think it's fine, therefore I cannot force them to adhere to a code of conduct or belief they do not believe in.

Again if you feel it's wrong fine. But if someone else does not see it as wrong and cheats you can't force your belief that it is immoral on them if their beliefs or conscience tells them it's not.

 

All kidding aside, that's a legit question. I think the context is that you have a willing partner who is expressing a desire to have sex with you, independent of any particular action on your part (as opposed to the stereotypical philanderer who is going out of his/her way to find a different sex partner). In that context, most of us don't experience that kind of opportunity on a routine basis. But a Tiger Woods probably gets propositioned like that several times a day (I imagine. I have no actual idea.)

 

GenAntilles exactly. you're OZKing. "if you dont want to base everything on god then that's okay i guess but i guess that means anything goes right? lolololo"

 

I don't see what's particularly "selfish" about long distance relationships. It presumes that you are somehow holding the other person hostage, and maybe in this particular case you were. But many people do this because they genuinely enjoy it. But in many cases, both parties in a relationship voluntarily enter into this, because they legitimately prefer one another to alternatives, and they do find ways to make it work. There's nothing selfish about mutually loving, healthy relationships.

 

I tried arguing from a Christian perspective and was repeatedly told I was wrong on this board. Therefore I have done as the board asked and no longer am using my religious beliefs in political or social debates.

Again, in regards to cheating, it is only immoral if you feel it is. If so that is fine and valid for you. If someone else does not find it immoral then that is valid for them. Someone find it moral or immoral does not effect your life in anyway so why are you insistent that others follow your reasoning or morality?

 

Oh noes. I agree with Wonkers.

 

Well yes, you're right. I was going off on my big adventure to Asia, but I wasn't fair enough to let go of my girlfriend in Sydney. I'm talking about my mindset, not in general, if that clears things up.

Are you talking from experience, though? Skyping anyone in particular as you sleep on the floor?

 

Oh so you merely view naïve egoism and blanket moral subjectivity as the natural conclusions of secularism. That is so much better.

 

i think we'd rather you argued from a genuine perspective instead of twisting yourself into knots trying to create a strawman. you'll still be wrong, most likely, but at least you'll be offering your honest opinion, instead of trolling. you're overshooting the mark on absurdity, in any case. you'll notice nobody ever has any idea what you're on about when you get in this mode. ive certainly never seen anyone respond to your fake-posting with "gee... life is just too hard to figure out for ourselves... i guess we really DO need jesus!!"

 

It seems like more of a tantrum than a witnessing tool, tbh.

 

maybe, but he does it pretty consistantly for a long time now

 

girls are wrong.


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you're wrong

 

Considering marriage and monogamy are entirely human constructs, there's nothing inherently unnatural about cheating.

However, having said that...

Monogamy is a part of the majority social contract; there's nothing inherently wrong about not following it, but doing it unilaterally (i.e. not finding a partner who is also willing to engage in breaking that part of the social contract with you) will usually not end well.

Or, as I usually put it: "anything that two or more willing, consenting adults want to do that make them happy is fine with me."

 

I know you said you don't know if that's what you want, but if you live or move to a large-ish city in the US, you will find a poly community. Search poly on meetup.com and you will find quite a few groups, or say you are poly on something like OkCupid. When I first moved to Boston I was starting to think everyone here was poly (not really, but it felt that way) because my brother and sister-in-law are poly and are pretty active in the poly community here so I went to many a party and met many of their friends who were also poly.

The key is communication, if you are poly and want a poly relationship, then you need to be upfront about it and it needs to be something everyone agrees on. If the person you are with doesn't want that then you need to decide if you are okay with that or not. If you are, then okay, but if you aren't maybe you need to reassess.

 

Is that an official overture, David? I'll have to discuss it with Lady Keira...

 

How do I tell Scarlett Johansson that I have been spending time with Jennifer Aniston and Emma Stone? Life is so complicated and stressful.