PT Did Lucas forget that Uncle Owen meets C3PO for the first time in ANH?

I like how you conveniently skip the well-worded, thoughtful responses in order to rehash the toaster argument that was discussed a page or so back From a poster who didn't read the comments before. It's like, the very definition of intellectual honesty.

 

But as I said earlier, C3PO doesn't really have a narrative function in the PT. Remove him from TPM and what changes? Nothing. Remove him from AotC, pretty much the same thing.
His presence is mostly a nod to fans of the OT. "Hey look it's C3PO!"

In ANH his presence is needed for the story to unfold. Yes and also comic relief.
In RotJ he is also needed for the plot on Endor. Of course him being there is a bit of a head scratcher as the other people as all in camouflage. And they bring a shiny, golden android? Not seeing the logic there.

Had him being built by Anakin been made into something that was relevant story wise or character wise then it might have worked fine. As is, he is just there for no real reason and the way he is put there doesn't make that much sense.

Well he was able to build a scanner, a really fast pod racer and a started to build a protocol droid.
So sorry, but the film doesn't show him being all that limited in stuff he can nick from Watto.

And as I said above, if he can't find a better droid, build a vacuum cleaner, dishwasher, or something more useful than a protocol droid.

In Jabba's palace, the chief droid asks C3PO if he is a protocol droid and then how many languages he speaks. So clearly it is expected of protocol droids to be able to speak many languages.
And since he says that they have been without an interpreter since Jabba destroyed their last protocol droid. This implies that no other type of interpreter droids exist. So the films give a clear message, protocol droids are fluent in many languages and they seem to be the most commonly used interpreters.
So if Anakin is building a protocol droid, then a knowledge of languages is implicit.

You kind of undermine your own argument, a droid that is called a PROTOCOL droid, obviously it's primary function is exactly that, protocol. What is the primary function of a Battle droid, battle.
Can you possibly use it for other things? Yes you can use it a papper weight, beer opener, drinks tray and other things. But the primary function is battle.

Owen's question and the droid in Jabba's palace suggest that there may be other humanoid droids that are not protocol droids.
Owen and the droid in Jabba's palace both suspects that C3PO is a protocol droid but asks to make sure.
Also Owen's question is partly for the benefit of the audience as we don't know what C3PO actually does, aside from complaining a lot. But here we learn what his primary function is.
C3PO wants to get away from the Jawas so he quickly makes a sales pitch for himself.

As I said above, once a droid has been identified as a protocol droid, people generally know what they do. Translators, protocol etc. C3PO has to convince Owen that he can do other things. If Protocol droids are well known for being able to do almost anything, Owen would not need a sales pitch.

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It is not a question of C3PO being able to do something, he can do some things. It is instead about why a protocol droid was the most useful thing Anakin could build. Given how much of tech wiz he is presented as, it begs the question if there wasn't something better he could do for his mom.
Plus, as I've said, C3PO has no real function in the story, he is there as a cute nod to the fans.

Lastly, C3PO memory is wiped so all that transpired and the possible growth he had as a character, that is all wiped away. So he retains no memory of the events of the PT. So why have him there if you are not going to let the character grow? So the C3PO we meet in ANH is not really the same droid that we spent three films with, he has been remade and his memory wiped. Sure some parts of his personality is there but the events that could have left a mark on him are gone.

I know that some like that R2 retain the memory of the events in the PT and they can read new things into his behavior in the OT. But C3PO is not given that.

@Chaos123x

Padme's people in TPM seemed to view R2 with some favor. He got a small award ceremony for saving their ship and he got a personal fixer up.
Anakin and Obi-Wan seem to like R2 and joke about him.
Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

All Protocol droids share the same distinctive personality. The difference is that we see more of Threepio than we do TC-14 and E-3PO.

That's why someone like Qui-gon would say, "Nothing happens by accident."

Vader never encounters Artoo in the OT. In ANH, Vader sends the Stormtroopers to find the Death Star plans and learns of them being in one or more droids. On the Death Star, he is too busy searching for Obi-wan to go looking for any other droids that don't belong. He doesn't even really see the droids when Luke is shooting at him for killing Obi-wan. During the Battle of Yavin 4, he hits Artoo, but he doesn't know that is Artoo Deeto, his former friend. To him it is another Astromech droid. In TESB, we don't know if Vader was the one who closed the door leading to the carbonite chamber, or if it was another Imperial officer. Vader is then busy with Luke. In ROTJ, only Luke turns himself in to Vader. Artoo is back in Bright Moon Village with the rest of the strike team.

As to Obi-wan, Lucas covered his bases by showing that he never owned a droid. And that he had made loose wire jokes at Artoo's expense many times during the Clone Wars. Anything else would be superfluous.

1. Anakin never finished building him, per his own admission.

2. If a Protocol droid cannot be a servant droid, then what the hell are Threepio and TC-14 doing serving drinks when a servant droid can easily do that job?

3. For that matter, what the hell is Threepio doing operating binary load lifters if all he is meant for is translating?

4. As well as repairing a fence sensor at the moisture farm?

A Protocol droid can do any tasks that a human can and if all that Anakin could get was one, then that was the best that he could do. Getting a dishwasher is not the same as cooking dinner, serving meals and cleaning up around the hovel.

 

You're right it was convenience. I didn't have time to respond to the well-worded, thoughtful responses then. A thousand apologies. To your response, the Tamagotchi analogy isn't much better than the toaster one I'm afraid. 3PO is a walking talking being with a very distinct personality. He's an artificial person. He has as much of a personality as any human. A more memorable one than most in fact. That it's incased within a machine doesn't change how much his annoying manner would stick in someone's memory.

But etiquette is even more useless to Shmi than languages. We know that 3PO was programmed for etiquette. He told us so at Geonosis right after he left the Lars' homestead. Unless the Lars decided what they really needed was to improve their etiquette we have to assume this was part of his original programming.

Or Owen could've been referring to the droid's original programming. A general question about the use of 3PO as a droid. Without the PT this makes sense. Owen sees a prissy golden droid with seemingly little use in a manual labor sense. He looks at him & sarcastically says "so I suppose you're programmed for etiquette & protocol".
When we include the PT retcon we have to see this as a reflection of Owen's experience with this very model in the past.

Again, it was a sarcastic comment from Owen as much as a question. 3PO tells him about his language skills which is why Owen buys him. 3PO speaks Bocce & can communicate with Load Lifters. With the PT retcon this scene actually backs up your theory that 3PO's translation programming came after he left Tatooine, since Owen thought he was purely a protocol droid. Then again we could also say that since Owen has such a low opinion of the 3PO model, & since he lived with one (this very one!) for years we could say that this demonstrates that C3PO wasn't particularly useful to Shmi & the Lars (at least in Owen's opinion). After all those years all he considers a 3PO unit good for is protocol. Gee good job there with your droid building Annie

These are the sorts of "issues" that having 3PO live with the Lars including Owen for all those years creates. That said it's all pretty minor stuff.

 

It amazes me that people are even asking this question. Short of outright saying so, the movies make it clear enough that 3PO isn't an uncommon type of droid. Why the hell would Owen, 23 years after his last encounter with 3PO, when Anakin took the droid away, even think that this droid he's bought from a bunch of Jawas, is the same one that his stepmother once owned?

 

It comes down to how unique & distinctive 3PO's manner & personality is. Among protocol droids the movies seem to suggest he's quite distinct. In fact he's annoying & therefore should be quite memorable. He even annoys Owen in that brief scene in ANH, as you'd assume he did many times when they lived together. I guess we must accept that Owen assumed this personality & behavior was standard for this model of droid. Since Owen probably never encountered another droid of this kind I've come around to thinking this is a reasonable explanation. When 3PO clearly didn't acknowledge or recognise Owen he just assumed this wasn't the same droid.

 

Because he is used as a character in a movie. Do you think any droid would do? If 3PO gets destroyed somewhere the guys could just get another one....and that one would do? Is that how 3PO works as a character?

That would be like having...Luke meet with someone hes ready met, them not recognising him and explaining that as...'well the galaxy's full of blonde haired male humanoids'...

In short....if it was a toaster, or a Tamagotchi then...nobody would be raising it as an issue.

(when you watch TFA....you don't wonder why there is any interest in an inactive droid..)

 

Well, that analogy would only work if Luke had changed his skin and hair colour in intervening time.

Plus, he's not made on an assembly line of similar droids, with similar mannerisms, as seen in TC-14.

 

How does TC14 have similar mannerisms? Doesn't nervously try to excuse itself to the Jedi, doesn't have some sort of quip for his Neimodian masters, doesn't have something self-consciously miserable to chatter to itself about.

 

There's a difference; to the Skywalker men, the droids were family. To someone like Owen Lars and Obi-wan Kenobi, they were more tools than friends. I love dogs. I've had three in my life. All three were/are family. To someone else, they're just a pet. They don't become emotionally attached to them. There is a distinct line between family and mere animal and it remains that way to the bitter end.

TC-14 walks out of the conference room and says, "Excuse me" to the Battle Droids as it scurries away. We don't see more because it wasn't a main character like Threepio was.

 

it's still the same droid.

 

I'm sorry but most people in the SW universe do not see droids as people or pets they see them as either as just a machine or like a slave that isn't human. How many people abuse Siri on iPhone? Anybody care about Siri as a person? Would you reconize a Siri from another on identical iPhones? Most people just think Droids are nuisance these days. I mean during the clone wars, droids pretty much were blowing stuff up and destroying everything. If you don't buy the toaster analogy then you can just say hey, George didn't care enough to to fix this issue.

Me personally think most people in the SW don't think twice about droids. There as low as toaster. They are not a person, a friend, or even a pet. They are the lowest of the low and nobody cares about them, it's not even a issue though people
Don't even think about it.

 

Irrelevant. You're talking about status & value placed on them. The point is 3PO has a distinct personality which is annoyingly memorable. A toaster or even Siri doesn't. People once owned slaves & considered them mere property. Yet if they lived with one in the same home for years they'd be very familiar with their speech, mannerisms & personality. If they met them again years later they'd remember them. That they may have a low opinion of them is a separate point. Owen lived with 3PO in the same home for years, maybe even close to a decade. In-universe I have absolutely no doubt that he remembered this & would've thought of it the moment he saw & spoke with 3PO in ANH. What saves this from being a plothole is that he may've thought this was the standard personality & voice for this model of droid, reinforced by the fact that 3PO didn't acknowledge or recognise him.

 

Let's put it in a different context; who is to say that the Lars didn't have a protocol droid that they owned or a neighbor owned. Before Shmi and Threepio came to live with them. And said droid sounded and acted the same way.

 

It's worth pointing out that thrrepio was Schmi's droid during this time, not Owen's, so he might not have had much in the way of interactions with him. To use the analogy of a pet, would you recognize your mother-in-law's poodle from over twenty years ago if you saw it in a pet store? (Not accounting for aging of course) Maybe you would if you were a dog person. But a lot of people probably wouldn't. We can tell Owen doesn't care for droids or pay much attention to them, so I don't find it a stretch that he doesn't recognize threepio.

 

Gotta agree most people in the GFFA don't think of droids as being distinct, they are just...droids. One of the things that set Luke Skywalker apart for me in the OT was his kind, humane treatment of the droids. Han, for example, didn't give them the time of day. Others ("we don't serve their kind in here") treated them with disdain. Others treated them like inanimate objects such as tools. So I can easily buy that Owen just doesn't care enough to think twice about this droid as opposed to any other one...he has probably seen similar droids and other R2 units and who knows what else the Jawas bring around. He is a very practical man and all he cares about if this droid is useful. (Even if on some level he wonders briefly this could be the same droid...he probably couldn't care less if it was.)

 

I never said that 3PO wasn't programmed with etiquette. I said he might have never had the translator programming at the time of his creation. We never hear C-3PO utter the 6 million languages line in the PT. Anakin was limited with what he had to work with, he had few choices. So it's not beyond belief that Anakin just shoved whatever programming he had into 3PO to get him up and working. Who cares if he was programmed for etiquette and protocol, or even 6 million forms of communication, all Anakin wanted him to do was help his mother around the house. You and others are acting like Anakin purposely over-programmed him and then using that stance as a way to complain about the movie, when it's simply that Anakin had very little choice in what programming he could throw into 3PO to get him going. Who cares if 3PO was programmed for what, would he take orders to clean the house? Yes he would! Would he take orders to help Shmi with the work she had to perform at home for Watto? Yes he would. To a 9 year that is what mattered. Just like in ROTJ, Jabba and his henchmen didn't care what programming was in R2-D2, they used him for what they could, a serving droid, which wasn't an Astro Droids primary purpose. Anakin used 3PO for what he could, general labor to help his mother, what programming that was already in 3PO was irrelevant. Once again, we see in the OT, that droids are used beyond their primary use. Owen buys an Astro Droid, was he planning on plotting hyperspace routes? Obviously R5 and R2 had a use to Owen beyond their intended use. Jabba uses an astro droid to serve drinks. So again, why is it so hard to understand that no matter what programming that Anakin had to put into 3PO (to get him up and running), the intention was for 3PO to help his mother around the house, which he could have done no matter what his primary programming was for. 3PO vaccum the floor... 3PO dust, 3PO help mom with the parts Watto sent over... all things he could have done in light of his programming.

There is no retcon. There is no argument that, in general, protocol droids had a primary use. I have never argued against that. The point is though that as a walking computer any droid can have different programming, that is why Owen doesn't simply assume 3PO is what he is and just walks by without saying a word. Owen asks and waits for an answer because Owen knows that there is a chance 3PO has been re-programmed. It is only after hearing 3PO's reply that Owen dismisses him as useless. Once again, there is no retcon, because the OT shows, that even though a droid has a primary task or programming, that the citizens of the GFFA have other uses for them beyond their intended programming and use. The OT also shows that droids also have sub-programming that is useful beyond their intended use. There is no retcon. We see how droids are used in the OT. Anakin using what he has at his disposal, is not a retcon.

Even if it was sarcasm, the movie itself doesn't lie, the movie shows Owen waiting for an answer. Sarcasm or not, Owen waits for the answer before dismissing 3PO as useless. If Owen already truely knew the answer he wouldn't of asked it in the fdirst place, and even if it was sarcasm, he would have kept walking and not waited for an answer.




Once again, it is clear Owen waits for an answer, so it makes it clear that even though Owen suspects he knows what 3PO is, he still needs to hear it to make sure. This shows us that Owen understands that there is a possibility that 3PO might not be programmed for what he suspects he may be programmed for.

And once again, you act like Anakin had such a huge choice in what he could do with a droid. He put together a droid from scraps, used what he could, for the purpose of helping his mother around the house. This needs no specialized programming, so whatever Anakin could shove into 3PO to get him working didn't mean anything. Because, as we see from the OT, droids are used for purposes beyond their initial programming. Otherwise Owen bought 2 useless droids...


Edit: Another example of the citizens of the GFFA using droids beyond their intended purpose is Watto using pit droids for general labor around his shop. Pit Droids were used as pod racing mechanics, but, watto used them around his shop for generla labor. So again, this issue that people have with what Anakin put into 3PO is weird because the movies, both OT and PT, show that droids are used in other circumstances not fitting with their programming.

 

No, Lucas didn't forget. He merely accepts the reality that 3PO is just a droid and there's no reason why Owen couldn't forget about one of the many droids he owned, specially one from 20 years ago.

 

Owen couldn't possibly forget an annoying droid he lived with for years in the same house. More likely he just assumed it was a different droid of the same model.

You misunderstand. The retcon I referred to was that Owen & 3PO are now former housemates. They lived together in that same home they're standing in front of for years. In the OT (originally) this wasn't the case. In that version Owen guesses or presumes that 3PO was a protocol droid. Perhaps even just by his prissy gold appearance. Following the PT retcon of Owen living alongside one for years he knows all about this droid model. He knows that their base programming is etiquette & protocol. Sure it's possible that as a droid this 3PO unit could have additional skills or programming. So Owen sort of asks a question & waits for an answer. Makes sense since he's looking for a droid who speaks Bocce/binary. There's no real problem here.

Anakin building 3PO is not a plothole, but it is silly IMO & the opinion of many. As is Uncle Owen once having lived with 3PO for years. Thing is we've had 17 years to get used to it, so it has become the story. But, if you went back & told a SW fan in the 80's or 90's that 3PO was built by Vader as a kid, that he then lived with the Lars in the homestead for years, & then was owned by Luke's Mom, that SW fan would probably ask if Lucas has lost his mind. It creates the situation in ANH where Luke & Owen are standing there with the two droids. One of them was built by Luke's father, lived with Owen in the very home they're standing in front of for years, then belonged to Luke's mother. The other one was owned by Luke's mother then owned/used by Luke's father. They're either brilliant interconnections or silly contrivances that make the galaxy seem like a small town.

 

Exactly. Where did it ever say that 3PO had all his programming from the very beginning? In our world we buy computers with just the OS or sometimes not even that. We can then install whatever software we want later on. Who says that is not common practice in the SW galaxy? Anakin built 3PO to help his mother. We have no idea what else he could do at that point. There are 20 years between the time his mind was wiped in ROTS and when we next see him in ANH. So it's not impossible that someone during that time, maybe Captain Antilles or someone else, "installed" new programs into him, including those 6 million languages. Those languages were probably not needed in Shmi's household, but found useful at some later point. I don't see SW droids as much different from today's computers. They can randomly be programmed, un-programmed or re-programmed, according to current demands and needs.

 

It was established in AotC that he was programmed for etiquette. It's pretty unlikely the Lars' decided to do this while he was living at their homestead, so we presume that was his original programming.

 

in anh as soon as luke mentions kenobi, uncle owen gets irritated and tell him to get the droid's minds wiped. obviously this is because of kenobi but you could extrapolate that owen may have been putting 2 and 2 together about the droids/3p0 as well.

 

Uh, no. We don't know that he had etiquette programmed in AOTC. In fact, he never mentions it in the film. It is a big leap to assume that Shmi, Beru or the Lars men had him programmed beyond what he might have had already to begin with. It is possible, but not a certainty. In TCW and ROTS, though, we know that he does because he's with Padme and would have had it programmed in.

 

He does say this: "I'm programmed for Etiquette, not destruction!", when he's on the battledroid body.

But why wouldn't he have had that while working with Owen on the farm? He was built to help Shmi round the house, so etiquette would certainly help with that.

 

Ah, yes, I forgot. But either way, etiquette might not be needed if he wasn't used in that function with the Lars. Given that he's only seen working on the fence and never helps Beru in the kitchen in AOTC, it seems that they didn't utilize him beyond manual labor.