ST Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

I hope LFL will call Ahmed back to Star Wars to play a new character in IX. Jar Jar Binks not being loved by the fandom has nothing to do with Ahmed's work, he is amazing. https://twitter.com/ahmedbest/status/923922498898485248

 

i think they need brand-new fresh faces that have been in nothing like they did with daisy

 

"A lot of people online are very enthusiastic about Poe possibly being LGBT and what it means for the first Star Wars character on film to be this way. Can you confirm or deny or say what it means to you?"http://hupperts.tumblr.com/post/168201218942

 

I think Poe being LGBT would be great, don't get me wrong. But I feel like that question was kind of putting Oscar in a corner.

Oscar seemed to handle it pretty smoothly by mentioning Latino representation and then saying that he's not agaisnt Poe being LGBT but that it isn't necessarily canon right now.



Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

Absolutely. He handled that question like a boss: clear, concise, compassionate, open-minded but not trying to make any allusions.

With Boyega choosing to do more interviews and still being known almost exclusively for SW, he has been getting that question so many times I felt bad for him possibly having to crush some people's dreams with a wrong answer. I wanted to smack Ridlley's best friend, Josh Gad, when Boyega came on stage following her at the Celebration and I believe Gad's first or second question to him was about a romance between Finn and Poe. It didn't matter if it was meant as a joke, it is still a serious topic for many people watching around the globe and it put Boyega in a spot once again. It is beyond annoying that many of the fanbase, who probably never gave much thought to same sex couples in SW before, were suddenly so keen to see Finn and Poe pair up and convinced themselves that Disney would go along with this. It was as if these folks were intent in coming up with a scenario that would end other romantic possibilities for Finn.

 

What you said is very interesting because I remember back in early 2016 when John was asked and he clearly said there was nothing between him and Poe, and the entire fandom came down on him with claims that he was baiting them and secretly a homophobe (so far as someone finding out his father was a paster, and for that reason his family would not want him to kiss a man on screen, and after that Boyega never made that statement again, and didn't shut anything down.

Like this topic is very important, but it gets very difficult when you consider the actors and despite what they may feel for the characters they are still at the mercy of the filmmakers and the Disney/LF conglomerate. I hope Holdo is simply the first steps being taken though, If Star Trek can do It I believe Star Wars can as well. I just hope people don't come down on the actors for pairings they want not happening

 

There's just so much to unpack here. I'm personally not happy that Holdo is the first LGBT on-screen character and not Poe because I know she's going to be an antagonist to some degree and I'd rather the first onscreen LGBT Star Wars character be a hero. And we're not even sure if Holdo's sexuality will get mentioned which, in my opinion, basically means she's an Easter Egg for diehard fans but they don't care about representing the GA.

Oscar handled the question with aplomb but also it's going to be a disappointment to those of us who were hoping that Poe's sexuality and personal life would be touched on in the movie. I'm not talking FinnPoe but a reference to a husband or a boyfriend would've been nice. Especially since they played so coy with his love life in the comics and implied it was something for the films to explore. Now, maybe IX will establish Poe as being gay. That'd be fantastic. But they had a chance in TLJ and they completely missed the boat and I have to say, I'm a little disheartened.

And as for fans suddenly jumping on FinnPoe, I think there's been a demand for same-sex couples in Star Wars long before them. It just hadn't reached the popularity that FinnPoe has. People wanting LGBT representation doesn't mean they're automatically against Finn and Rey, or that they don't understand what FinnRey would mean for representation. That'd be another group of shippers who sometimes will use FinnRose or FinnPoe as a cover to get Finn away from Rey.

 

I'll admit that for the longest time LGBT rep in SW never even crossed my mind. When I first saw the idea of Poe being gay suggested, it finally dawned on me that LGBT people probably want to feel the same pride I do about John B's place in the saga. Such a simple thing that I was totally oblivious of.

When I watched TFA I never got the sense of anything romantic between the two men (Finn and Poe) not just on Finns end (the dude seemed completely fixated on Rey) but on Poes aswell (just some meme of Poe biting his lip). I was genuinely surprised at how serious people took John and Oscars jests but in hindsight it must have sucked for many to hear John backtrack on the possibility. I don't think John and Oscar meant to hurt those people but I get that it must have been kind of a let down.

With that said I still think Poe being gay could still be implemented into canon and seamlessly at that. I remember hearing about a ring Poe wore around his neck but im thinking it may just be Sharas. Regardless I agree that if your going to included another LGBT character into the films Poe would be perfect. There doesn't need to be just one.

I'm also thinking back to Oscars words and I think that a subtle point he highlighted was the fact that Poe may not be gay but his character already means alot to those that are underrepresented namely the Latino community. Weather they go the LGBT route or not ,Poe dameron is just as relevant in terms of representation as John B. Something else I admittedly forget from time to time.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

I'll admit, I was one of those FinnPoes for a while that immediately read romance into every single interaction (though I've got to say, that lip bite is super flirtatious in my opinion), and I took everything John and Oscar said as gospel. I've since switched main ships and calmed down a little, but for a while the possibility of canon FinnPoe was just the best thing in the world. And having lived inside the fandom (which yes, does have it's awful corners but which fandom doesn't), for so many people it means more than just a ship. The idea of Poe being gay, or Finn being bisexual, means a lot to a lot of people because representation is so scarce and these wouldn't be token gay characters but fully realized, complex heroes who aren't defined by their sexuality.

Honestly, I'd love it if both Holdo and Poe were confirmed LGBT in the films, and would have fewer issues with Holdo as representation if she wasn't the only representation we have. Not that I'd expect Lucasfilm to give us more than one LGBT character at a time because, well, people can be terrible.

And absolutely re: Poe being important rep with or without being gay. Something that moved me while getting hyped for TFA was that the new trio wasn't just two white men and a token woman. It's a diverse lineup; Kelly Marie Tran's inclusion as the first major woman of color lead in the franchise was equally as exciting. Which is why TLJ marketing has left me cold. It seems like Lucasfilm was like "oh you like representation! We're going to tease it, but then in the second film of the trilogy it's back to being about white men and a token white woman at the center of the story." But that is a whole other can of worms.

 

I really don’t think Star Wars needs to have a bunch of relationship drama one way or another. Keep it the way it is with TFA and Rogue One, absolutely no romance or even hints about it unless you want to see it there. There wasn’t anything gay about Finn or Poe whatsoever just the same as there wasn’t anything ever between Cassian and Jyn. They weren’t even friends, just associates at best. Star Wars has only had romance when it was necessary for the plot like Anakin and Padme or in tiny doses like Leia and Han. That small amount? Ok, it was also funny, so I can deal with funny. But if I wanted to watch romance I would go watch 50 Shades of Gray. What purpose does having gay characters serve besides to make Star Wars - a family franchise that is kid friendly - more PC? I’m not against gay romance any more than straight romance, it’s the same thing ultimately, but at least I can suffer through some straight romance only insofar as it advances the plot (to create Luke and Leia) or adds comic relief. I worry if they made a gay romance it couldn’t possibly be played funny because it would tick everyone off. The LGBT group would think Disney is making fun of them. So that means we are going to waste serious screen time with romantic scenes?! This is Star WARS not Star Love. Make war not love!

If all you want is some reference like a throw away line showing Poe is gay, well alright I guess, but again what does that accomplish? And I don’t mean what it accomplishes for YOUR agenda, I mean what it accomplishes for the film and characters. How does it matter to me as a Star Wars fan? If it makes sense in the plot, by all means, but don’t shove it in there for no apparent reason. There are other movies that deal with these issues so much better than I think you ever could in Star Wars frankly.

PS: How do you get Finn being gay from TFA?! He literally asks Rey if she has a boyfriend. What did you think that was a curiousity question?! Why does anyone “ship” (ugh, painful term; makes me cringe) anyone?!? What a silly thing to focus on when these are epic movies about epic events, not petty romance. It’s just... weird. Fictional character relationships. Like I’m trying to think of something less important to worry about but I got nothing. But I love the idea of the Galaxy Far Far Away encompassing every viewpoint! It’s just for me as little romance as possible please.

 

Well, think back to The Empire Strikes Back, it was the middle film of the trilogy just like The Last Jedi and it had a TON of relationship drama between Han and Leia! Also, there was a blatant romantic connection between Finn and Rey in The Force Awakens, it's troubling that people are still trying to ignore it.

You asked, what purpose does having gay characters serve? That's easy—to put a smile on the faces of lgbt viewers! Especially in the era of Trump, lgbt folks (especially the children!!) need to see that they're loved and that they have allies who care about them. Poe Dameron would be fantastic representation and it would add a layer of depth to his character. A throw away line is very possible, especially since JJ Abrams coming back for the next film.

Overall, I'm really proud of Star Wars for hiring a more diverse cast for the ST! John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Kelly Marie Tran... I love these actors to bits and it warms my heart to see them achieving success

 

I just want a great story that people love. Above all that’s what matters. Disney is also trying to make movies for the wisest possible audience so financially I’m not sure about how that will translate... but I hope so for the reasons you mention

PS: My skepticism is just because as was said some people are both bigoted and narrow minded and their brains or worldview can’t tolerate anything different. This is neither here nor there but I sure would love to see one mainstream movie have a lead protagonist who actively doesn’t want kids and says so, and is a hero, not the cold hearted lady like Jurassic World who warms up to kids. It’s lame. Plenty of great women do NOT want kids, ever. But we don’t get that view we get the mainstream view only and that’s it.

 

It's so obvious that Disney just want to check boxes:
Female lead - tick
Black character - tick
Latino character - tick
Asian character - tick
LGBT character - tick

But I love the actors and characters so I don't care too much

 

You haven't got a completely white straight male cast? You must be ticking boxes.

 

Agreed on all accounts.

And as you hit on earlier - I do believe a large portion of the whole Reylo movement is to deny TFA clearly setting up the romantic connection between Finn and Rey.

 

This is an issue I care about a lot in general. As Star Wars has yet to introduce an LGBT on screen character, I am particularly interested in that. I had some thoughts on the Collider interview: first, I thought it was quite clear from his response that Poe is not going to be presented as LGBT+ in the movie (or at least that the movie will not intentionally add any fuel to the fire in terms of the fanfic/speculation about this character not being straight).

As far as the interview, the situation with Holdo was a little more interesting, but not much. As has been discussed, there is a little dialogue in a recent spinoff (Disney canon) novel set before ANH hinting that Amilyn is not as vanilla in her romantic inclinations as Leia, who states she is only interested in humanoid males. Oscar Isaac had heard about this and teased Laura Dern about this moment a little bit, and the two of them seemed to find it amusing, so I was left thinking, actually, that this is not picked up in the movie either. (Otherwise, my thought goes, they would have clammed up about it because it is a plot detail) I mean, maybe it is in it but I just feel like they wouldn't have gone near it if it were actually part of the movie. See what I mean?

"Oh well," I thought. "Maybe in Episode IX." In my view, it's disappointing if my interpretation is correct. Holdo as what others above described as an "Easter egg" seems kind of like a cop out.

 

From one point of view it’s a cop out, but from another it’s a potential casual introduction of a gay character, meaning that future, more prominent gay characters aren’t also having to be burdened with being the pioneers, or subject to criticism of the writing on the basis that gay characters whose relationships are part of the story are “agenda driven” rather than story driven, since there’s an existing precedent of s gay character with the sexuality being unimportant to the story.

I can still see that it’s valid to think it a cop out (indeed, if Star Wars never depicts a gay relationship then it will be a cop out) but for now, I’d see it more as a timely nod to people who want representation that it will be coming, even if the story they’re telling with these characters doesn’t allow for a gay love story in these films with the story they are in the process of telling

 

But when is this "future"? LGBT fans have heard all the time "in the future maybe we'll show a gay character". Episode IX will be release in 2019, they have time to show a character who isn't het. It's hard to make a scene like this?

 

It’s not about having time, it’s about the fact that this is a story that’s two thirds told, and it’s likelt that all the major characters are already here. Perhaps in IX Holdo’s sexuality is made plain, but in all honesty, from what we’re getting, I think a gay character will be in a Star Wars film within five years at the most

 

Having Poe be gay doesn't necessarily equal him and Finn making out on screen. Literally all we have to do is have Poe mention that he's keeping his mother's wedding ring to give his future husband. There. That took maybe what, two seconds of screentime? It doesn't interfere with the story at all. And I fail to see how FinnPoe would detract from the story but that's neither here nor there. Does Poe's sexuality have any bearing on who Rey is, or what Snoke is up to, or whether Kylo has a redemption arc? Nope. So your argument about waiting is kind of weak. It would take no time at all and not detract from the story to make Poe or Holdo canonically LGBT onscreen. One reference. Poe holding hands with another man. Holdo's wife being a minor character. There we go. It's a cop out to not have it happen on screen and I'm tired of being told to be excited or content or to wait my turn.

 

The example around Poe seems like a mix of fan service and a cop out. I’m 100% in favour of representation, but I’m 100% against the idea of fans whims being indulged.

Fans have every right to expect representation to happen, but not to dictate which characters are gay.

 

you would? there are way better romance films out there. i recommend casablanca.

 

So I feel like maybe I'm not following the conversation well. I thought Holdo was bi? That was my impression from the POA book. That seems like representation to me. She's a really cool character in the book, so I'm excited to see her in the movie. I mean, I don't know if they'll address her sexuality in the movie, but I'll still see her as her whole character. Dumbledore wasn't explicitly described as gay in HP, but I always saw him that way because his creator saw him that way. I read his history with Grindelwald in that way. Subtlety is fine with me. In fact, I prefer it. We don't go out of our way to define straight characters as straight, so I don't see why we need to do it with gay characters either. No one is defined by their sexuality.

Like Dr. Aphra, it seems like Holdo was conceived of with her sexuality in mind. With Poe, I'm not sure they saw him as either straight or gay in TFA. I don't think sexuality came up at all there. He was the badass pilot, the end. If they decided to add depth to the character in TLJ by somehow addressing his sexuality, I'm not sure clarifying that he's either gay or straight needs to be written off as fan service. Just like there are plenty of fans that would like to see Poe be gay, there are clearly plenty of fans that would prefer LF clarify that he's straight. Either way, I think RJ is free to add complexity to Poe's character however he chooses to.

 

Oh boy. I've had to type and backspace a lot of comments because quite frankly no, Poe being gay is not fan service. Fan service would be Luke pulling a Star Destroyer out of the sky with one hand. Fan service is not Poe being confirmed to be gay even if it wasn't always the intention because there would literally be no other character like Poe were he confirmed gay. He's already important representation but a gay man of color portrayed entirely as a hero? Who's sexuality isn't his entire arc but just a part of his character? That would be revolutionary. My desire as a gay fan, and the wishes of other gay fans, are not just silly little fan service things but a wish to see ourselves portrayed as heroes, which is long overdue.

So don't conflate a fan service sequence with cries for representation because we're tired of waiting.

No one is defined by their sexuality but the fact is there are few canonical gay characters on screen. And until they are 100% confirmed as gay or bi or pan in the text - like Sinjir in Aftermath - people will argue that no, maybe they're straight. They can be confirmed LGBT through a same-sex relationship, through coming out to a fellow character, through a vague reference, but there needs to be canon confirmation otherwise we get conversations where people argue against LGBT representation by saying it's just fan interpretation, which diminishes it down to head canon rather than confirmed canon.