Do you/will you smack your child?

Finally, let me ask a very simple question: If spanking is so harmful to children, and can have such serious and harmful effects, then could someone explain the fact that historically, it has been extremely effective, and not led to extremely high rates of violent criminals? "Spare the rod and spoil the child" dates back thousands of years. While that saying comes from the Bible, there are similar proverbs in virtually every other culture.

If it is so harmful, and yet so prevalent in history, then why have we not seen the great harm throughout history on a significant scale?

We have. Our society is much, much less violent than virtually any society which has come before, even less violent than the America of a few decades ago. Compared to us, everyone else is like something out of Mad Max.

 

I think there's quite a few people from other countries that might disagree with you on that.

 

Well...since I'm not a parent. Haven't gained too much experience on that issue, but if a child is getting too annoy, I would. In general, to smack a child is also part of the Corporal Punishment. I thought it had been outlawed back in the 1890's. Well, I was wrong! Corporal punishment is legal in twenty-three states. Why is this inhumane practice still permitted in our schools? Most leading professional associations have come out in opposition to corporal punishment. The reason why is that they feel it causes irreparable emotional damage to young people.

Magax

 

I think there's quite a few people from other countries that might disagree with you on that.

I believe diz was speaking historically, not geographically.

 

Could be. If so, then his statement makes a little more sense.

 

Smack them? I'll beat their butts with a leather belt. Right in the butt, over and over.

Dicipline is key, I'll teach my children not to disobey me or my future wife, just as my Father and Mother did to me.

 

Saren, now you see why I don't want to be identified with any side but my own?

E_S

 

I believe diz was speaking historically, not geographically.

I was, yes. Sorry for being unclear.

Better the thread die, than it become a hug fest.

I think KK needs a huggle-wuggle!

 

I would start early with the umbilical cord, and knock out the entire issue of discipline in about five minutes. Barring that, it would definitely get discipline. A slap across the face when they are disrespectful, or something along those lines. A thrashing on their behind usually doesn't work, because it doesn't cause real pain.

Be honest, there are more kids who need to be thrashed than those who do not need it. What's called abuse nowadays used to be called something a lot less harsh. Priorites get thrown out the window, in favor of...what, exactly? Justice for the kids? Is it justice when kids aren't given boundaries? There's something wrong with setting specific parameters of what is considered appropriate behavior?

 

This is my first post in this thread and I'm one of those people who talks alot so listen alot.

I do not know how you could do that to your child. I am one of the children who gets smacked around and beaten by my father. You will never know what that does to a child. It makes them think they're useless pieces of ****. Some even commit suicide because they think they're not loved.

I know one of my friends (Her name will not be mentioned), but she was cotting herself. I think it was because of her father treating her badly.

Then there was the girl who tried to commit suicide in hte bathroom yesterday at my school. These girls are pressured by their parents and some get beated if they don't have good grades or just simply because the parents feel insecure about themselves.

 

Based on the last couple of comments, I definately see why you choose to remain on your own side. I'm pretty much doing the same.

 

I am one of the children who gets smacked around and beaten by my father. You will never know what that does to a child. It makes them think they're useless pieces of ****. Some even commit suicide because they think they're not loved.

As we have been saying for several pages now, there is a difference between smacking around and beating and administering mild physical pain only after a stern verbal warning fails. The former severely damages a child (I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to argue that), but the latter does not (as everyone on this board who was spanked as a child should prove beyond any reasonable doubt).

I know one of my friends (Her name will not be mentioned), but she was cotting herself. I think it was because of her father treating her badly.

You think so? You'd better be sure, if you're going to claim she was cotting herself because of it...

Then there was the girl who tried to commit suicide in hte bathroom yesterday at my school. These girls are pressured by their parents and some get beated if they don't have good grades or just simply because the parents feel insecure about themselves.

So, someone attempts suicide, and you automatically assume, "they got beated"??? That might be a cause in some cases, yes, but how can you claim such intimate knowledge about all suicides?

 

Psst, Freddie, check the profile age. Yes, you're arguing with a 13 yr old.
E_S

 

That's not to say, though, that the perception of a teen is not valid. I dare say, that's even part of her point, secondarily, if not primarily.

 

What I don't like is when parents put their kid on medication because they have ADD, or so they say. Bull crap. Then their kid walks around like a zombie just because the parents don't want to deal with their child's behavoir. Discipline is in order sometimes, but most of all, you have to be their best friend and it takes work to mold a human being while still integrating being a parent at the same time. Because a special life is in your hands.

 

That could very well make her the most significant perspective in the entire thread, Ender.

 

I disagree there. The teenage years are a time for growing, learning about one's self, dealing with horemones, discovering your own identity in society, and a variety of other life altering changes. In short, most teenagers will not have a clear perspective of how to raise a child because they are still trying to figure out how to be an adult. Not that I'm saying she should be ignored or that her opinion shouldn't be considered, but I certainly wouldn't say that her perspective is the most significant one in this entire thread.

 

I disagree there. The teenage years are a time for growing, learning about one's self, dealing with horemones, discovering your own identity in society, and a variety of other life altering changes. In short, most teenagers will not have a clear perspective of how to raise a child because they are still trying to figure out how to be an adult. Not that I'm saying she should be ignored or that her opinion shouldn't be considered, but I certainly wouldn't say that her perspective is the most significant one in this entire thread.

Is this part of the "Children don't know enough to tell shades of gray, so it has to be black-n-white discipline" line of thought?

What you may have failed to recall is that teenagers, for all their raging hormones, are closer chronologically to the experiences of being spanked. They have the freshest memories of what happened, and how exactly it made them feel.

If your opinion is to be taken seriously, Vez, you must accept that others have their own opinions that hold equal weight.

 

Tell me then, would you think it a wise idea to allow a teenager to become a judge in a court of law? How about a police officer? Get my drift? There are simply some things in life that a teenager is not ready to do, and giving parental advice on how best to raise a child is definately, IMO, something that falls on that list. Don't forget, I was a teen at one point too. At that age I thought that I was on top of the world and just as knowledgable on most subjects as my parents (I imagine that most adults were the same way as teens). Now that I'm 26, I can easily look back and realize that I was very foolish and immature as a teen. Thank God I didn't become a father before I was married and well within my 20s.

Now in saying that, have I said anything, or did I say ANYTHING, that indicated that a teenager's opinion shouldn't be considered at all? Of course not! I merely said that their opinions shouldn't be taken more seriously than someone older and more mature (and I was specifically referring to the people who have been commenting in this thread), particularly where raising a child is concerned. I don't know about you, but VERY few teenagers that I know, let alone children younger than in the teens, knows the slightest thing about what's best for the raising of a child. Heck, most teens that I know don't have any clue about what they want to do with their own lives, let alone how to best nurture and guide the growth and development of another life.

You seem to think that I don't give teens enough credit. Well IMO, you give them FAR too much credit.

 

No, it doesn't. It makes her at best, a subjective and immature critic - and I don't mean this in a harsh manner, but rather to indicate she's hardly someone who's divorced from the recieving end of any form of parental discipline. I would wager, firmly, this affects her judgement as much as I would wager asking a fat kid if all those PE classes in the curriculum are necessary would produce an honest answer.

E_S

 

There are simply some things in life that a teenager is not ready to do, and giving parental advice on how best to raise a child is definately, IMO, something that falls on that list.

Reread truthie's post, Vez. She relates her experiences and those of the teens she knows from the POV of a teen. She has given no parenting advice. She has given her opinion solely based on her experience as a teen.

And by what basis do you opine? It wouldn't be your experience, would it?

I merely said that their opinions shouldn't be taken more seriously than someone older and more mature (and I was specifically referring to the people who have been commenting in this thread), particularly where raising a child is concerned.

I could say the same toward all those in this thread who are citing how they will parent if/when they ever become parents. I have more parenting experience than they do, so why is my opinion not taken more seriously than theirs? Hmmm?

All I'm saying, Vez, is that you need to play fair and realize that we all have our personal experiences, and thus our own personal opinions to offer to the discussion. It's unfair to devalue one voice just because she's a teen who disagrees with you (I see you don't devalue the opinions of other teens who have posted in here that happen to agree with you about spanking--that's awefully convenient).

 

Try to talk to kids like human beings, and not animals.

And if I ever have kids, I will spank them if necessary.

Though I think we should go back to a cane across the palm of the hand.

 

Try to talk to kids like human beings, and not animals.

Actually, I admittedly speak to our daughter in monosyllabic commands (much like those used toward our cat) when I'm frustrated with her and she's not listening. "Sit." "Stay put." "No." "Down." "Get your head out of the toilet." You know, stuff like that. (Okay, I admit, the last one was only for the cat...)

After she acts on the initial command, you can talk to her about the "why's".

 

Cheveyo, let's go back and analyze the previous posts because I think you are either misinterpreting my comments or you are intentionally trying to mischaracterize me.

jediknightruthie said, "I do not know how you could do that to your child. I am one of the children who gets smacked around and beaten by my father. You will never know what that does to a child. It makes them think they're useless pieces of ****. Some even commit suicide because they think they're not loved.

I know one of my friends (Her name will not be mentioned), but she was cotting herself. I think it was because of her father treating her badly.

Then there was the girl who tried to commit suicide in hte bathroom yesterday at my school. These girls are pressured by their parents and some get beated if they don't have good grades or just simply because the parents feel insecure about themselves."

When I personally read this, I see her giving her opinion on how spanking makes kids feel that they are not "loved", causes them to "cott" themseles, and also possible commit suicide. If spanking is done responsibly, this statement is completely false and I disagree with it. However I didn't even respond directly to her because I saw her as simply giving her opinion and I didn't feel the need to argue with her over it. I actually responded to severian28 who said, "That [her being the age of 13] could very well make her the most significant perspective in the entire thread, Ender." This is the statement that I totally disagree with because I can't believe anyone would actually think that a 13 year old's opinion on spanking is more important or has greater perspective than someone who has already grown up and become a parent themselves.

The exact statement I made in response to severian28 was, "I disagree there. The teenage years are a time for growing, learning about one's self, dealing with horemones, discovering your own identity in society, and a variety of other life altering changes. In short, most teenagers will not have a clear perspective of how to raise a child because they are still trying to figure out how to be an adult. Not that I'm saying she should be ignored or that her opinion shouldn't be considered, but I certainly wouldn't say that her perspective is the most significant one in this entire thread."

So as you can see, I have stated that I disagree with the notion that her opinion is more significant than anyone else's in this thread. As you should also be able to see, I have also specifically stated that I feel her opin

 

What more could I have said to try and further clarify my statements to you?

You could have said something more simple and eloquent (and to the point), such as: "To clarify, I meant to say that her opinion should be equally considered with all of our opinions."

Unless, of course, that wasn't your message.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

And I believe I apologized for my generalizations, and am making a concerted effort to improve the level of quality in my posts. How about you?

Regarding everything else, I'd be happy to discuss it with you via pm, but I won't continue to derail this topic to satisfy your alleged indignation.