"Does Obi-Wan die before he has ever been intimate with a woman?"

Wow, Star Wars gossip I didn't know!

I suppose that could have something to do with it. I've also always figured that GL wanted go with the epic romance feel of forbidden love--whether or not it had occurred to him before he wrote ATOC.

Courtly love was always "forbidden" back in the day--a lady was "inspiring" to the extent that she was unavailable. FWIW, I've often wondered if Obi-Wan didn't have a love doomed by fate and duty lurking somewhere in his background. Whether or not it was ever consummated, the romantic doom would suit him. His advice to Anakin in ATOC wouldn't necessarily be hypocritical--perhaps it's just the voice of experience.

 

Don't worry. The question is answered in Episode III. Obi Wan confeses to Yoda he has had an ongoing torrid affair with Dex Jetster. This revelation send Artoo, who had a huge crush on Obi Wan, on a killing rampage that would make the destruction of Alderaan seem like a "kiddie" movie.


And if you believe that, I've got some prime realestate on Dagobah I'd like to sell you.

 

As long as we're talking Prequel Obi-Wan, that is.

But Alec Guinness = Sexy



-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Why does everyone think that for the Jedi to have sex without love/marriage necessarily means they are always taking advantage/being sleazy?

Obviously, of course, in some cases, that would be so, such as when someone is deceived about what's happening/will happen in a relationship. Or just wants/expects more than sex once or twice. But if two Jedi, or a Jedi and someone they happen to meet on a mission, have a one-night stand, being careful/using protection, and go their separate ways, neither expecting more, how is this a really bad thing? Or something that would make people view the Jedi in a negative way, necessarily, at least before someone like Palpatine twisted it around against them?

Granted, it's a bit empty, and not the most satisfying, necessarily, and there is the possibility to inadvertently hurt someone who wants more than a one night stand, but those, I think, are some of the problematic issues the Jedi have in the PT, in terms of how they are leaving the true path, leading up to the Purge, the actions of the Chosen One, etc.

I would say- who knows? Very cogent possibilities have been suggested for Obiwan to be intimate with women, but it is only inductive reasoning. However, generally, knowing human (and especially male) nature, I would tend to think he would have been intimate with women several times before his death. A friend or two in the Jedi Order, and maybe a few Tatooine natives between EIII and EIV. The human sex drive is very powerful, and for a very good reason- the species would not survive without it.

 

I think that's a good argument overall, but:

But if two Jedi, or a Jedi and someone they happen to meet on a mission, have a one-night stand, being careful/using protection, and go their separate ways, neither expecting more, how is this a really bad thing?

If a child results of it. That about as big an attachment as you can get.

The sex drive is very powerful, but so is the desire to find meaning in it. People don't like to think they're being manipulated by their hormones, so they convince themselves that they have sex for emotional reasons. Unless every Jedi has completely overcome this idea, it would be difficult for a lot of them to have sex without forming some sort of attachment to the other person, even if they left the next day.

 

Well, I'm guessing that birth control in the GFFA is much superior to that in our universe.

 

didn't u watch aotc? jedi aint allowed to get no lovin'. b sides, obi wan wuz old. o and aint sex talkin against teh tos/

 

yes it is against TOS
im reporting this thread to a modernator

 

To violate the TOS, it has to be explicit. And it also makes a difference why it's being discussed, I believe. If we were to describe, in graphic detail, how we think Obiwan might do it, that would violate the TOS. We are discussing whether or not we think Obiwan would have had sex before he died, given his Jedi thing and other factors. We are not little kids. This is not prohibited by the TOS.

 

didn't u watch aotc? jedi aint allowed to get no lovin'.

AotC doesn't say that. "Attachment is forbidden." The whole point of this thread is it can sometimes be possible to have sex without attachment.

 

Lucas himself stated that Jedis are allowed to have sex when he was interviewed at Cannes or the Venice Film festival last year.
Either one. It´s been a while since I saw it- Somewhere in summer 2002.

It´s possible there is cut material about Obi Wan boring to death on the Royal Starship then making out with Amidala´s decoy.

 

Yes, it's attachment that is (usually) forbidden. However, the implication is there. I don't think the Jedi would encourage using people like that. And even if they did do it, I don't think Obi-Wan is the kind of Jedi who would participate in that kind of thing. Especially after what happened to Anakin.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Well, I admit it does seem contrary to what we consider human values to encourage sex without attachment. However, it's possible that they have different values than we do.

 

Well, can't it also be argued that an attachment is something like a marriage-an obligation-while a lover is not?

LOOPHOLE!!!

 

If a child results of it. That about as big an attachment as you can get.

But a child is a detachment... you have to cut the cord sometime.

 

And like I said, birth control!

Plus, children are probably given to the Jedi Temple if Force sensitive, or given up for adoption.

*shrugs*

But no way Obi-Wan died a virgin. No freaking way.

 

I agree. He was way to hot to have not gotten his share of nookie.

I also agree that sex does not equal attachment. It is the attachment that is forbidden. Jedi are sort of "programmed" to be detatched beings, but that does not mean biology does not enter the mix. I don't think that, for an "ordinary" Jedi, it would be unreasonable to think that sex without strings attached was commonplace.

Now, Anakin was not an ordinary Jedi; he was not a detached person, so if he had sex, he certainly formed an attachment of some sort. But Obi-Wan, being a model Jedi, would not have. I don't think their values are near the same as ours; do we advocate separating infants from their parents and forbidding any subsequent contact? Nope, unless some abuse/neglect was involved. But the Jedi did. So it's reasonable to say that they operated on a different set of morals than we.

Now, I don't think Obi-Wan was a philanderer by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm sure he got his needs met. And I'm sure he had no trouble attracting females, not in his younger days anyway.

 

I'm dealing with this very subject in my current fic and it is a tricky subject when it comes to The code. I mean, if you go with the EU code "there is no passion" "there is no emotion" then how could a Jedi have sex in the first place? They'd have to have some form or emotional/passionate reaction in order to do that (although I think that particular code is meant more as a guideline to help retain balance rather than an absolute). And lastly, Jedi aren't stones! They feel "emotion" all the time. (they would be very uninteresting and callous if they didn't)

If I ignore that EU code and stick to only what the movieverse said we have "no possession" "no attachment", now... Possession, okay, that can certainly be a bad thing when it comes to love, no problems and it's clear that Jedi only posses what they have to to survive/what the temple supplies them. No attachment, now I have a major problem with this one, if we are to take "attachment", in reference to this Jedi Code, as a "A bond, as of affection or loyalty; fond regard" (dictionary.com), well... Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had an affection, loyalty and fond regard for each other, didnt they? And so did Qui-Gon for Anakin, and Obi-Wan for Anakin, and vice versa (up until Episode III that is), and I'd hazard to guess that Yoda is quite fond of his younglings so... that can't really be what's forbidden, can it?
If we take attachment as an alternate meaning like
"The act of attaching or the condition of being attached." or "Something, such as a tie, band, or fastener, that attaches one thing to another." or "A supplementary part; an accessory" then it would appear that the attachment that is forbidden is marriage and not *necessarily* emotional bonds. I think this is what Lucas meant when he said they are "not celibate, they can't have attachment". And this makes sense for them, a spouse and family of a Jedi would have a difficult life, being separate from the one you love for long periods of time, perhaps even being put in danger from those who would blackmail a Jedi spouse. VERY difficult.

So if, "an affection, loyalty and fond regard" for someone is not forbidden (as shown in the movies, etc), and sex is not forbidden according to Lucas himself, a Jedi could conceivably have a lasting, exclusive, relationship with someone if he doesn't marry them or otherwise carry them with him as an "attachment" (either emotionally during missions or more literally) and/or let his "personal feelings get in the way" of duty.

sg

 

See, as much as I admire Lucas and recognize that it's his story, the whole "attachment is forbidden" but "sex is okay" deal frustrates me. I know it's more challenging and less conventional the way Lucas created it, but I think he's trying to have it both ways. I'd much rather he just made the Jedi celibate.

But as what's done is done...I dunno, I guess it's possible. In The Approaching Storm (one the few EU pieces I've read and liked), there seems to be something akin to an attraction between Obi-Wan and Luminara. I also heard that supposedly in the EU, Kit Fisto and Aayla Secura were so close that if the could've been a couple, they would have been. But I've not actually read anything indicating that. I don't much care for EU. The movies leave it so wide open, and I wish they hadn't.

Heck, I always thought the Jedi may have been celibate. I knew Anakin obviously didn't follow the Jedi rules since he betrayed and killed them all, but Luke seemed to be a real Jedi in ROTJ, and I always thought he was celibate by then. Even Mark Hamill seems to think Luke would have been celibate after ROTJ, if you read his interview in this month's (well, last month's) Insider. But Lucas statements about Jedi sexuality are, when compared with the content of the films, kinda confusing. I'd rather Obi-Wan be a lifelong virgin...and be so dedicated to his religion and following the ways of the Jedi that he doesn't care.

 

But remember, humanas (and dolphins) are the only species that have sex for pleasure.
Most of the Jedi aren't humans. Who's to say they actually ENJOY sex?

 

Sometimes I think that GL just said that because he was afraid that all the adult and semi-adult fanboys would flip out if they found out they'd been worshipping a bunch of virgins all these years... like that's the worst thing in the world. :\

However, it is an interesting complication if you look at it from the pov that perhaps sex was not forbidden out of the occational necessity of procreation and not just to allow Jedi to "get it on" anytime they want. Just because they are not forbidden to do it doesn't mean that it is regarded as the thing to do, if you know what I mean.

In the fic I'm working on, I have the attitude that it is "frowned upon" basically because of the emotional baggage that can be carried with sexual relations. So in essence, it is felt that a Jedi should never be concerned with such things but it is not forbidden out of occational necessity (and possibly some of what plutoneam said). I then throw into the mix a confused Padawan Obi-Wan, a girl from lower Coruscant who is very attracted to him and he in return, and a very annoyed Qui-Gon Jinn. I admittedly started this with a bit of "Ewan's cute" , in mind, but the more I get into it the more interesting the subject becomes. Such as, would Obi-Wan be able to handle a relationship with a woman of this nature and still do his duty and keep his mind clear? What would it take to send him over the edge so that he would ignore Qui-Gon's warnings and be with this girl anyway? What sorts of reprecussions would occur? etc etc...

Anyway, guess I'm saying, in the end I am kinda glad GL said that because it makes the Jedi more interesting in some ways...

sg

 

Hmm, no wonder Obi-Wan drinks so much.

 

lol... yeah I suppose I can see why he might need a stiff drink now and then.

sg

 

Obi-Wan was a Mack Daddy on Tatooine. Probably met up with some very colorful people at the bar at Toshie Station.

I think that since the Jedi Order was disolved he was free to do as he wished.

 

I agree there were no more rules binding him, so he may have abandoned some old Jedi practices, but would he want to throw away all the traditions he'd formerly lived by?