JCC [Druqks] I'll have a Big Mac, fries, a Coke, and a fatty-boom-batty blunt

Yeah I watched Mallrats recently. Noonch.

But this thread is more inspired by the latest Freakonomics podcast. Levitt and Dubner take a user question on the cost of drug enforcement and whether legalisation would be of a benefit.

It's an interesting question.

Taking aside the need for people to do a Helen Lovejoy and ask if someone won't "please, please think of the childrens?", let's be clear. Something like crack, which by its nature produces a sharp and pronounced, but short term, high, wouldn't be under consideration. That high creates a need to keep getting high, making crack addictive and if Lindsay Lohan proved anything it's that its hard to function as a crack addict.

Notwithstanding Colorado's recent reforms, how would you feel if, subject to the same regulatory framework alcohol is (restricted sale, restricted framework for operating a vehicle etc), pot was available over-the-counter for adults?

Would you be more or less likely to smoke the occasional blunt? Would you be inclined to smoke where previously you didn't?

What if hallucinogenics like mushrooms or lysergic acid (LSD) were available in controlled situations? Or non-addictive uppers like MDMA?

What would be the social effects? Amsterdam doesn't seem to have a local problem with weed (tourists and weed, that's another issue), but is that cultural? Would productivity be impacted? What about the impact to crime?

JC, give me your thoughts and I may trade them for THC. Probably not though.

But maybe.

 

It's spelled Drukqs.

 

Oh it would be terrifying to be in a Yo Gabba Gabba episode. I often watched that with my step-daughter thinking "so that's what stoners do..."

 

*@$#

I was even listening to it before. His parents are so Welsh (lornaderek).

So Welsh.

 

That rule probably needs revision, actually. It was in place from a time when we had a much more conservative attitude in the administration; an attitude which has softened. With society moving to decriminalise or legalise marijuana in many areas, then perhaps a new approach is needed?

 

I support & would want just about any drug to be legal.... as for personal wants, etc, I'm not allowed to go further publicly.

 

Even hard, addictive opiates? I mean, don't get me wrong, I think marijuana, ecstasy, mushrooms and LSD should be (as well as speed, Special K) legal and regulated, but heroin? Crack?

I'd be keen to hear why?

 

Decriminalizing and regulating recreational drugs is the best course IMHO and will become the norm at some stage in future once the gubment realises that it will not and cannot ever win the "war on drugs". The fact that weed is "illegal" is what makes it attractive to young people in the first place and in order to get it, young people have to enter the criminal circles. If they could buy it and it was regulated in terms of sale and use (like alcohol) then half of the bikie gangs around the world would simply go back to beating each other up over "turf" rather than "markets".

 

What about the gateway drug argument, Lost? In your experience as a lawyer and metalhead, does this make any sense?

 

I think alcohol is more of a gateway drug.

 

As LostOnHoth alluded to before I could respond, I would want the power & influence of drug gangs/cartels, etc, to greatly diminished. Although the current war on drugs is a complete fiasco/joke, I don't doubt that criminal elements would still have some power in a world of legalized drugs, but there's a better, more adult way of handling drugs that what's currently done.


And why not have heroin & crack legal? Because of their more extreme nature, in a legalized drug world, these would be among the most regulated of options, but the option should still be there. People are going to do it anyway... those inclined for such activities anyhow. I'd love to for a frank, public discussion on the gateway drug argument you brought up, but that's not allowed.

 

For people who don't know, "decriminalization" and "legalization" are different. Decriminalization means it's still illegal, but you face no criminal penalties (usually for minor possession). You can still get fined and the police can take it away from you. And if they catch you with more than the decriminalized amount, you can still face serious legal consequences. In my home state of California, for example, possession of an ounce (!!!) or less of weed is decriminalized for everyone; it's only legal for people who are "prescribed" "medical" marijuana to possess it.


With that in mind, I think marijuana should be legalized for all adults. I think minor possession of every illegal drug should be decriminalized. Simple users shouldn't have to face prison sentences or probation. I don't know about LSD and ecstasy-- they tend to have much more pronounced effects than (moderate amounts of) marijuana or alcohol as far as I'm aware, so I'd be wary of broad legalization. I've heard about research into using them to treat certain disorders, so I'd be behind legalizing at least prescription use if they prove effective.

 

Hypothetically, it depends on what kind of drink is being drunk, what kind of weed is being smoked, eaten, etc.

 

i wanna see this movie:

 

Using the model of alcohol and cigarettes, I will say that I at least hope any future legalizations are carried out quite different. In the worst capitalist traditions, these industries have been allowed to externalize all their social costs, while reaping the entirety of the profit. If someone had a chance to design the whole system anew, would they honestly want public health programs like Medicare to absorb the cost of COPD and lung cancer for smoking, or drunk driving and nutritional deficiencies for alcoholics? I'd certainly hope not.

In related fashion, I think the militancy around this debate has led to a skewed perspective. For me, the meaningful question is not whether it's possible to use these or other substances in a responsible, contained, recreational fashion. It's also important to account for those who will not be able to, and whose lives may be significantly degraded as a result. I guess I'm not enough of a libertarian to assume that people "deserve" whatever addictions or problems they fall into. Especially if we're discussing things like heroin or cocaine.

Could those of you in favor of loosening regulations share if you have any plans to compensate for these potential costs of legalization?

 

i'm just picturing you high now

 

A combination of taxes & the re-allocation of monies in budgets on the local, state, federal levels. Easier said than done, obviously.

 

If marijuana were legal, then I could buy it in the store instead of from a guy I know. Far as I'm concerned, that's a hearty yes please.

Little by little, the social stigma against users of marijuana is being lifted, and more and more people who aren't what you'd call "stoners" smoke up on a daily or other semi-regular basis. It's really only a matter of time. Even if marijuana becomes industrialized far beyond its current phase, I think hobbyist and private grow-operations will continue to be a thing, so we concerned will still have a choice about where we get our stash.

 

She's such a pusher.

 

Wocky, you raise a good point. I guess my response would be, "isn't that why they're taxed?"

In that, wouldn't you be offsetting the social and medical costs by taxing the sale of the items?

Of course, there's no guarantees that taxation money would be directed to health care when it could better be spent arming war criminals in Israel.

But what do you propose? I agree that there's a public health cost - what should be done about it?

 

Yeah, it makes sense but only because of the social aspects of drug culture. Drug culture is like everything else, it has a hierarchy and status components but really the major allure is the social acceptance among a peer group. The fact that drugs have been stigmatised for so long as "criminal" or "underground" is the major selling point for sub-cultural groups, your punks, metalheads, bogans etc etc. Then there is the link between druge use and creativity, famous artists, jazz musicians, actors etc etc. Drug taking is of itself a social ritual which earns respect/status within a particular group. So yeah, remove the desirable 'stigma' and the decision to use drugs becomes simplified.