Emperor Plagueis

It seems to me that Darth Plagueis should have been Emperor instead of Palpatine.
By killing Plagueis in his sleep, Sidious broke the Rule of Two and proved himself unfit to govern the Sith dynasty.
By chosing not to face his master in combat the way Darth Bane had intended, Sidious also weaken the Sith order which eventually led to its destruction.

I wonder how things would have progressed had Plagueis lived?
I wish James Luceno had been able to write his book, it would have been interesting to see the type of man Plagueis was. Was Plagueis himself a senator, was he setting himself up to one day become chancellor?
If he had become emperor, how might the events of the the saga have unfolded differently? Would he have took someone as weak as Maul as apprentice? Would he have coverted Anakin as much as Palpatine did?
If so, would he have seen Vader's defection coming?
Would the death stars have even been built?

etc... etc...

Please disguss!

 

First off, I don't think Sidious/Palpatine actually broke the Rule of Two by killing Plagueis (if, in fact, he was Plagueis' apprentice - more on that shortly). Treachery is the Sith way. Had he taken another apprentice & they both took on Plagueis, that would have been breaking the Rule.

However, taking the film on its own, & not incorporating various information about Plagueis' relationship to Palpatine presented in earlier drafts of the script, & in the EU, I think it's somewhat ambiguous whether or not 'The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise' is even true, or if Palpatine was his apprentice, & I think it's meant to be ambiguous.
There certainly is an implication that Palpatine was the apprentice who stole the secrets of immortality, & it's very deliberate - this is how he seduces Anakin - but he never actually says so, in fact, at the end of ROTS he virtually denies he has this knowledge. It's also somewhat telling that he refers to the tale as 'a Sith legend'.

Darth Plagueis may never have even existed. Palpatine's a Sith, hardly the most trustworthy type of fellow to begin with.

 

Plus, there's that whole pesky "the entire PT would have to be different" in order for this Plagueis idea to work at all. Considering that there are two other Sith that were created and put to use before Plagueis was dreamed up.

 

But Bane ROT philosophy was for the STRONGER Sith to prove Him/herself in battle.
That way only the strongest survive. Waiting until the other grows weak, killing them while asleep etc... is not the Sith way.
Have you read the bane trilogy?

 

The Rule of Two isn't a law of nature, it's a rule of thumb. Otherwise, no Sith would be able to die of natural causes. Immortality of the individual isn't the point - it's all about passing down and carrying on the Sith methodology.

Palps would have to either make sure he had an apprentice in waiting, or find one soon afterwards (for example, after Maul died unexpectedly.)

Not too much, though. We don't want this thread to become disgusting.

 

Darth Plagueis should have known better than to sleep.

 

That's the most fascinating thing about the scene at the Opera. Everything could be a lie....or not.

 

This does make me wonder about something...

does Palpatine sleep considering how vulnerable you are while doing it?

 

Palpatine does make the comment that he knew better than to sleep in Dark Lord.

 

unless its been canonized in EU or the novelization (which i just started reading), i'm choosing to believe palpatine was not necessarily the apprentice in the story.

 

It has been. In Dark Lord, Palpatine reminisces about the lessons Plagueis taught him.

 

I love when people mix EU and the movie storylines. It's a different universe people!

It's pretty simple actually, Darth Sidious killed Plagueis because Plagueis was weaker. Sidious saw an opportunity and went with it: That's what the Sith do. Sidious either had an apprentince ready (Maul) or he started training one immediately to protect the Sith lineage after he took out his Master.

 

It's also in the novelization.

 

No, I haven't read the Bane trilogy (I kind of steered away from reading most EU stuff when it became apparent it'd be a full-time job keeping on top of it), but I don't think Darth Bane had too much influence on Sith practices a thousand years past his death.

The Sith weren't engaged in battles by then anyway, they'd retreated into the shadows. It depends on how you wish to define 'strong' - Palpatine probably considered himself 'stronger' than Plagueis because he had the will to betray his master, & was smart enough to be able to do so. Strength need not be physical.

 

StampidHD280pro asked a question. I answered it. It's not necessarily mixing it, but some people do include the EU and the movies together. So, calm down. To you, its a different universe, but maybe not to someone else.

 

You say that like it's a BAD thing.

 

^^^

 

You snooze, you lose.

Agreed... I really like that aspect of it.

 

i never really asked a question, so thanks for the spoilers everybody.
events in the EU frequently occur during events from the films, and overall the EU attempts to be LIKE the films, and if the films are so much alike themselves, the idea that EU exists as a different universe accomplishes what exactly? is anybody going to misinterpret the movies because of some comic book? whats going on????

 

No, it's just that some people like how the movies "ended", and don't like how other authors have extended storylines, or redefined scenes or characters in the movies.

I'm reminded of a Star Trek novel I read about a secret organization in Starfleet. It was a 4-book series covering the OS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager. Anyways, the TNG version talked about how one of the characters in the movie was actually gay. Now, it was obviously motivated by the writer's needs, because it didn't pertain to the overall story at all, but I could see how some fans might be put off by such a characterization - especially one that had no other relevance to the rest of the story. In much the same way, while I found the Boba Fett:Bounty Hunter Wars series to be an interesting read in and of itself, I could never imagine the movie-Boba Fett being nearly as talkative as he was depicted in those books. I kinda got tired of the "I would normally not talk about this, since it really doesn't matter to me anyways, so I guess I'll talk about it" technique that Jeter kept using to get Fett to talk. But it was still an interesting read.

Still, some folks prefer to say that since it's part of the SW Universe, and ultimately signed off - if not indirectly authorized by - George Lucas, then it has to be included with the films as a legitimate description of him. (Then again, those same folks would have an issue explaining why Boba Fett should be considered dead, when this series resurrects him, despite Lucas' statement that Fett died in ROTJ regardless.)

Anyways, despite so-called "Rules of Canon", it's still a personal choice, and there's a variety of reasons for folks to believe one way or the other (if not somewhere in the middle of this spectrum.) All I know is, I had to stop reading Splinter in the Mind's Eye because of Luke's burgeoning amorous feelings for Leia. If only he knew...

(Man, where's Bib Fortuna, Twi'lek when you need him? )

 

haha. i've read splinter of the minds eye twice now. one pre-PT and once post. lightsaber girth can be adjusted too according to that one iirc. maybe Splinter of the Minds Eye is the prime piece of EU, and the best introduction to it. Enjoy - with a grain of salt.

 

I've always looked at it like this: Plagueis performed the physically-taxing-ritual that made Anakin. Exhausted; but still an arrogant Sith, Plagueis called his apprentice in to brag about the success of his midichlorian manipulation and the need for a nap. Sidious who was already secretly training Maul, decided that now was the time...

 

I'm really split about how much should be told about the whole thing. A part of me likes the idea that Palps just flat-out made something up to entice Anakin. But the other part of me recognizes Palps expressions during his telling of the legend("It's ironic" as he smirks.) and what the novel and EU has to say about it.

But I'm not sure I want to know more, unless Lucas hires some brilliant novelist who can fulfill all the fans wishes and desires for the story.....yeah riiight.

 

Wasn't Luceno scheduled to pen this novel?
Or was it Stover?

 

I agree, I love the mystery that was left. By far the greatest scene of the PT, and one of the greatest of the whole saga. Not eveything needs an "explanation".