Abq Episode II Discussions

Discussion in 'SouthWest Region Discussion' started by ChromiumTHC, Jun 8, 2002.

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  1. ChromiumTHC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 2
    I just wanted to start another thread to get some activity on here. After watching AOTC again, what questions are raised in your minds?

    Like, why make up the rule that the Sith only have one master and one apprentice? The We already know from the books, that the Emporer had both Vader and Mara Jade, so having Dooku here is like Apprentice #3.

    Is Sidious and Palpatine the same person?

    What happens to Padme next? Isn't Luke * Leia's mom mentioned in the books? I seem to recall something going on with a White Way or something like that. Is any of that applicable here?

    What turns Yoda to run and hide and give up everything?

    Just a few to get the discussion started.
    Chromium
  2. LadyNaberrie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2002
    star 4
    How come Owen or Obi-Wan don't remember 3PO & R2......did their memories get erased too???
  3. Mst_Anakin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 1
    AH HA! LadyNaberrie asked the same question I did the first time I saw the movie. Here's the question that my brother has been bugging me with. 'wouldn't Obi Wan know Anakin and Padme got together? I mean use the force dude!' his words not mind.
  4. ChromiumTHC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 2
    If you think about it though, Obi Wan never did have much to do with R2 or C3PO. And as such he also never "owned" them like Anakin or Padme has. R2 & C3PO were on Tattoine, but Obi Wan was always on the ship or doing other things. (Getting trapped on Geonosis)

    Chromium
  5. skyra Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2001
    star 3
    I don't recall Padme being mentioned in any of the books, but in the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy, Luke does go off with Akanah, who is Fallanasi, and an adept of the White Current, who tells Luke that his mother may still be alive. It's been a long time since I read this trilogy, so I can't remember what happens. Most fans of the EU hated this trilogy, but I enjoyed it.
  6. LadyAnakinSkywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2001
    star 4
    How could Obi-Wan not know? The dark side clouds everything! Sorry, cliche response. ;)
  7. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    First, sidious and palpatine are played by the same actor. Why? cause when Lucas cant think of something new he recycles.
    Second, Padme is never mentioned in the navles becauise she did not exist when they where writen. Lucas simply created her. Allthough the queen title will led into the princess thing, i find it unoriginal.
    Third, lucas has clearly read none of the books, otherwise the story might in someway corrispond. But since lucas cant write all that well, he just invents stuff to make it easier in himself.
  8. skyra Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2001
    star 3
    Personally, I think Obi-Wan knew perfectly well who R2 was in ANH, as Obi-Wan and Yoda had their own agendas. They did not want Luke knowing too much about his father and mother, not until he had become adept in the Force. So, he just pretended not to remember. As for not knowing about Padme and Anakin secretly getting married, etc., I think Obi-Wan made a serious mistake in not realizing how far their relationship had gone. Even though Anakin's thoughts betrayed him in Padme's apartment, he was rather close to his teacher at the time, but half a galaxy away, is another matter altogether if you don't reach out and look for what's going on. Obi-Wan just assumed that Anakin would never betray the Order and never bothered to really find out what was going on until it was too late. And, I'm not sure if it's possible, but Anakin is quite powerful, maybe he found a way to shield his thoughts from Obi-Wan.
  9. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    Skyra, i would have to agree with you on most of your points, they are pretty close to what i think as well. Distance means alot. YOu can keep tabs on a person on another planet, but only if you are concentrating, or when a massively emotional experiance happens. for example, when Anakin slaughters the tuskans, Yoda and Mace Windu can feel the pain in Anakin. But they do not know where he is or what he is doing, and they where both in a state of meditaion.

    The droid thing i dont like at all. At one point i feel that the droids are simply there for pointless comic relief. Honestly, what is the point of putting 3PO's head on a battle droid, other then to make you laugh. But for one those laughs where at a bad time in the battle. YOu are supposed to feel tension, and to feel sorry for all of the Jedi who are falling in the battle. They go from about 200 to 30, and most peoplo did not care because 3PO was making em laugh!

    Another thing is that in many books we see a completely different view of the old jedi order. IN fact in this order we see it is perfectly ok for Jedi to marry and have children. In I, Jedi, Correns grandfather, Nejaa Halycon, was a jedi who died battling with a Sith Master, but he was married and had a son, who would be Correns father. Even though that is most likly a mute point i still like it because I,Jedi is one of my favorite books.
  10. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    Be prepared, im adding more

    Cloning, what an interesting subject. From the novels i have read, namely the Thrawn Triligy and the Jedi Acadamy Triligy, i see that cloning is very widespreed. Even though it is looked at negativly (worse then slavery) it is commen practice. In fact, whole civilizations revolve around cloning. IN Zahn's triligy, Thrawn locates 10,000 'spartii' cloning cylinders in the emporers personal storehouse on the planet wayland. Even though this is explained, it is not clear who the clones fought for during the war, or even who they where of.

    Another thing to add, The Dark Force.
    otherwise known as the Katana Fleet, it consisted of some 200 slave rigged Dreadnaught heavy cruisers. Again, Lucas has no idea whats going on outside his little world. I just for once would like to see a little recognition to the other authors of Star Wars. before you star arguing listen to this argument: Gene Rodenbary created star trek, yet he hasent written an episode for the last 15 years, how can he hes dead. Yet that is still star trek is it not? or is that someones wanna be star trek? i leave it to you to decide.
  11. ChromiumTHC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 2
    The title of Queen Amidala has absolutely nothing to do with Princess Leia. Leia received her title from the Antilles, not from Naboo.

    The main question I have, is if Yoda sensed Anakin's "great pain and suffering", why did he do nothing of it at the end of the movie?

    Also we know Luke marries Mara Jade, so what IS the big deal about Jedi's becoming attached?

    Chromium
  12. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    Chrome, what i ment was that Lucas made Padme royalty so that it would seem to the average person that the line had some form of continuity. Though the whole royalty thing is pointless and just a quick way for lucas to make and easy connection. Second, its not Antillies, i think that it was some weird script error when in episode 1 tonika got the last names mixed up, although i have heard arguments to the contrary.

    Again, i think lucas made the whole not being able to marry is just another way to make it easier for him to make a connection to anikans fall to the dark side. Honestly, if you dont let the jedi procreate, wont they die out. common genetic perpetuation.

    in conclusion i just think Lucas is going for some massive cop-outs that creat massive plot holes.

    oh, and go get Black Hawk Down -- Leave no man behind -- We will never forget MSgt Garry Gorden and Sgt 1st Class Randy Shughart Delta snipers Medal of Honor --
  13. ChromiumTHC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 2
    I was just reading the Starwars.com site, and Ki-Adi-Mundi has 5 wives. So much for Jedi not being able to marry in the "old days".

    Chromium
  14. skyra Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2001
    star 3
    I also think that the dark side influence that was diminishing Yoda and Mace's use of the force, so it's quite possible that they are not able to tell what is going on everywhere. I think Palpatine had already set his plans in motion to seduce Anakin to the dark side(yes, I believe that Sidious and Palpatine are one in the same) and was expounding great dark force energy to keep Yoda from finding out what was really going on.

    As for the droids, they don't bother me at all. Yes, they are comic relief, but it's a marketing tool. Lucas wanted the movie to appeal to all ages and while there are those of us who want a kick-ass battle scene, wrought with emotion and pain, it is just not going to happen. Not with the potential to make millions and millions of dollars from all ages, not just the fans. I for one, accept it and enjoy the Star Wars movie strictly for pure entertainment value and the chance to revel in the mythology and drama of it all.

    I think that the reason most of the Jedi marry and have children in the novels is to further the Order. I mean if they didn't then we wouldn't have anything to read. Plus, Luke and the other Jedi don't have much of the old teachings to fall back on and were not aware that it was something Jedi didn't do. I have yet to read "I, Jedi", but someday I'll get to it.

    As for the cloning, it's kind of hard to gauge what people in that galaxy really think about it. I don't recall ever reading any ethical no-no's concerning it, so apparently it's not discussed much. No one really came out and said anything against the clone army when it first went into use, but then again most of the senators and Jedi were being duped by Sidious.

    I understand Lucas doesn't read any of the novels, but any Star Wars novel that is written has to go through reps at Lucasfilm, and most authors are generally contacted by them and Del Rey to write a book, not the other way around. I have to agree with you on the lack of recognition for the author's, it is quite lacking. And, as I am also a fan of Star Trek, the fact that Roddenberry hasn't been around hasn't changed the franchise one bit. It's still there, probably always will, but what it all boils down to for both franchises is MONEY and the bottom line. Both are powerful influences.

  15. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    You hit it right on the head, its all about the money. its unfortunent but true. it is the dark side of movie making, and Lucas is it's lord.

    I highly recommend I,Jedi its one of the best books out there, and its about my favorite character, Corren Horn.

    Black Hawk Down-- Leave no man behind-- We will never forget the pilots and crews of the 160th SOAR who perished on October 3, 1993 -- Night Stalkers never quit --
  16. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    First, IN the hand of thrawn Duelology it explains clonning a little more in depth, but it still remains somewhat undefined.

    second, the star trek analogy was because my friend dissagree with me on the movies and use the cop-out argument "Star Wars belongs to lucas, so he can do whatever he damn well pleases!" as you can imagine, i am ready to rip them limb from limb when they say that.

    Three, i also agree that marketing is a big part of it. I felt the last movie was oriented heavely twords young children(need i explain?) and AOTC was oriented heavily twords teens in that little puppy love state(obviously). but i digress.

    My last grip, is that the movie is way too FACK looking. Too much CG, too much just made up. IN ANH, the stormtrooper rifles where suplus british Sterling SMGs! I feel that too much of the movie simply does not look real, to plastic, too artifical. MOst people are in aw of the special effects, i, just dont think it feels like star wars.
  17. skyra Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2001
    star 3
    Lucas has always said that he makes his movies for himself and even if there are fans out there who don't like what they see, he still is going to make a film the way he
    wants.

    Well, when I get back to my stack of SW books waiting to be read, I'll put "I Jedi" after "Rebel Dream" and "Rebel Stand", then the Squadron books. :)

    Haven't seen Black Hawk Down yet, but it is on my list of movies to rent. If I like it, then I'll buy it on DVD.

    TPM was made for more of a younger audience, Lucas even said so. I am probably one of the few people who liked TPM, but that's me. Mostly because I get to look at Ewan McGregor.:) CG is unfortunately going to be the norm now, and yes you can go overboard with it. There is a bit too much in AOTC, but like I said I look beyond that and get into the mystery and drama.

    I remember the cloning in the Thrawn books, but nothing is ever said about the ethical side of it. After all, the author is out just to tell a good story and not get into the politics of whether cloning is right or wrong.
  18. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    Ya, maybe im being a little hard on old George, but i feel a little betrayed. The movies where good, they just did not feel right to me. but i will let a dead horse ly and forget about it.

    Maybe cause i have a fair amount of military history in my family, i have been parading Black Hawk Down as a movie that evey American should see, but be warned it is extreamly intense! But you will be happy your friend Ewan plays the company clerk that gets the silver star :) To talk about the movie would be for another forum on another day, so i shall stop.
  19. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    oh, one more thing, isent selfishness one of the ways to the dark side?

    And finally, is anyone else signed up for the Jedi Knight II Turny?
  20. skyra Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2001
    star 3
    Nothing wrong with voicing your opinion.
    That's what makes this country great, to quote an old cliche. :) I have always believed that movies should be watched purely for the fun of it, spoiler free as much as possible the first go-round, then discuss it and pick it apart later. That's why I hate movie critics. So many people listen to what the big critics say, you know Ebert&Roeper, etc and decide, well if they don't like it, then it can't be any good. But, the critics don't realize that not everyone cares whether there is a *deep* message to a movie. Most of us just watch them for entertainment. The critics themselves have forgotten to have fun at the movies.

    Well, with such a good recommendation on BHD, I can't wait to see it.

    As for the Jedi Knight tourney, I don't do gaming because I don't have a 3D accelerator card, just an ordinary 3D graphics one, so I won't be going. Is the Gateway store here taking part in it?
  21. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    Ya the turny takes place at all gateway stores nation wide. Im gonna practice all week and go everyday to try to crack the top. I could use a cheering section, maybe before the meeting some of us could go to the store and make them kick us out :)

    not to be overly ghoulish, but wasent it funny that siskel that skinny man had a heart attack and the fat one dident? I never really listen to critics, most of them are biused. The one good one i know is Dirty Mike on 94 rock :) But there was one thing i can agree with, the movie would have been better with no dialouge at all! You know, Haiden Christiansin goes from stone face to sobbing like a baby, with nothing in between! See what i mean by a teeni bopper of a movie. Personally, i dont see to much of a deeper story, maybe you could enlighten me on that one, by the way nice new icon. oh, and did you notice the only things they think have a deeper meanings are those crappy art films that no one to the right of center would understand.

    And another funny thing, did you know that Ewan Mcgreger's uncle played Wedge in the first trilligy, and helped him to get the part of Obi-wan.

    oh, reading I,Jedi before you finished the x-wing series couuld be potentially hazerdous. Because by reading that first it tells you A LOT of stuff that happens in the series, so ity would be good to wait on i,jedi. sorry, it;s not like intentionally pressureing you to read all this but thats the proper way it should be done.
  22. ChromiumTHC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 2
    About Blackhawk down BTW: I wouldn't recommend buying the DVD right now because there's going to be a special edition of it out soon.

    I've been reading Before The Storm and in it, it says Yoda was in seclusion for 100 years. I don't think this is in canon with the new movies, but then again Episode III isn't out yet. But just how many years pass between Episode II and IV anyways, and what exactly will be highlighted in this timeline, I'm wondering.

    Chromium
  23. skyra Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2001
    star 3
    Actually, Siskel didn't have a heart attack, he had brain cancer. Still goulish huh? :)

    Yeah, I knew that Denis Lawson was Ewan's uncle. Even though it gave Ewan ties to the Star Wars universe, I don't think he was entirely picked because of it, but more on the strength of his screen test. He just had what Lucas wanted.

    Okay, got it, read the squadron books, before I Jedi.

    Chromie, thanks for the info about the Blackhawk down DVD, I'll wait. I generally don't buy too many DVD's when they first come out, as it turns out they invariably come out with a special one later.

    And, as far as the timeline goes, it is enough to drive fans crazy, as far as the books anyway. I think that what Lucas says is proabably closer to the real thing. Because there ain't no way 100 years passed between the time Yoda went into seclusion and Luke found him. AOTC is supposed to be 22 years before ANH and Episode III is 20 years and there is only 3 years difference between ANH and ESB, so as you can see the math doesn't come out right.
  24. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    I have a whole slew of DVDs that i can recommend, but at the moment BHD is the best i can offer at the time for new releases.

    About the whole time thing, Lucas is just telling his story, so there are bound to be discrepensies (Thats why i am so anti-Episode I&II). Its been a while scinse i have read BTS, but isent that the one where Luke goes serching for his mother? IM halfway through Dark Force Rising at the moment, that whole thing about the Katana Fleet, would have happened about the time of Episode I, and according to AOTC the Republic never had a millitary before. It is so confusing, Zahn gave us oone thing now Lucas spins a different story. I say let him, let use say what WE think is right. I have gotten to the point that i dont care, the new flicks are nice to watch, i just dont believe them.

    (My english teacher would KILL me if she saw these posts before i edit them :)
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