Europoll:US and Israel-the countires that threat the world peace

A recent pool made to the people that live in the EU,about the countires that present the biggest threat to the world peace showed this results:1st country-Israel(60%);2nd country-USA;3rd country-Iran.Near the end of the list are(suprisingly if you belive in Bush´s speeches):Afghanistan,Iraq and Syria.

I couldn´t agree more with this results.

 

heh heh

 

Thats hilarious.



OPPM

 

I strongly disagree with this bit of insanity.

But, that's not the reason I'm locking the thread. Please direct conversation to the 'Peace in the Middle East' thread. Also, this thread is a news article; for thread-posting guidelines, please see the Senate rules thread.


EDIT: Okay, re-opening this briefly. The 'Peace in the Middle East' thread is a thread to discuss the Israel-Palestine conflict, and other Middle-East general issues. The title is a bit of a misnomer, but that's okay.

It is my contention that European opinion on Israel's 'threat to world peace' is intrinsically linked (nay, the same topic as) to its role in the Middle East. As such, this discussion belongs in that location.

If anyone would like to see this thread stay open as a seperate and coherent subject, please post why you think (or why Europeans think, and why it is important) Israel poses a threat to world peace in ways that are not related to the Israel-Palestine issue.

 

I think Europeans still have residual anti-Semitism entrenched within their societies. Their press, especially in France with a large muslim population, facilitates these positions.

Many of these European states are also quasi-socialist states with total secularistic ideologies that do not jive with American values.

My brother's wife is Danish, and she says that the Danish people have a very positive view of Americans, unlike certain other nations.

 

There's also the whole "USA as a thread to world peace" bit. That's a topic in of itself.

 

I think a poll should ask which country ensures the security of the entire world.

Yes, the U.S. gets involved in a lot of conflicts. However, if the U.S. wasn't there, there would be even more conflicts enveloping the globe.

 

Not to mention we would all be speaking German....at least all of Europe and surrounding countries.

 

Argh, let's not invoke WWII again...



...besides, the Cold War is a much more relevent thing to reference!

 

Yes, however if not for the results of WWII, would the cold war even have evolved?

 

Yes, it would.

It would have been Germany and the U.S. instead of the Soviet Union and the U.S.

 

OK Im hoping to avoid the World War II bit, but the Americans did their greatest fighting in the Pacific, the Soviets fought the Nazis in Europe more than the US did. True it was our industry that kept them afloat but it was their fighting and dying that led to the ultimate destruction of Germany. Paris is closer to Berlin than Moscow, and who was in Berlin first?

Now onto the topic at hand, I think Europeans are going with the popular consenus right now. The war in Iraq was unpopular and many felt unnecessary so they believe it makes the US a threat to world peace. I find the whole thing ludicrous myself, who would have ever thought by sacking one despot the world would think the US is a threat to security?

People seem to forget we didnt throw the first punch, I dont want to wave the bloody flag of 9-11 but this is what threw us into this mess. Yes Europeans have had to put up with terrorism longer than us, but when has any European nation lost nearly 3,000 citizens in just one day due to a terrorist attack? The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have killed thousands, this is true, but how many months did it take for those countries to tally those figures? How many hours did it take for the US to lose that many? No 9-11 isnt a license to do what we want, but it has been a wake up call for America.

Afghanistan was a threat because they REFUSED to turn Osama bin Laden to be tried. Saddam Hussein might not have had an army capable of attacking the US or Europe but he sure wasnt cooperating with weapons inspectors, he was acting like a man with something to hide. Ok we havent found any weapons, we havent found anything that proves he destroyed the ones he had either.

Now onto Israel, I agree with the poster who said Europe seems to have some anti-semitism left in them. Israel's tactics maybe heavy handed but how anyone can see them as more of a threat to world peace than Saddam Hussein was is beyond me. Israel has WOMD, Saddam has used WOMD, hmmm seems like a no brainer to me. Lets keep in mind these so called freedom fighters of Palestine arent exactly sunshine and butterflies, they attack innocents too. Does it make it ok to attack and kill innocents if you are oppresed? In my book of morals, no. If these groups would spend more time attacking soldiers and less time attacking teenage girls, then they might actually accomplish getting a Palestinian free state. However these groups dont want that, they want to drive Israel into the sea and people seem to praise them for it. If people are going to accuse Israel of being a threat to world peace, they better put Palestine on equal footing of being a threat or they will show their anti-semitism biased on the whole issue. Its a cycle of aggression there meaning it takes two to cause such a mess, Israel being one, Palestine being the other. Lets be less biased shall we?

 

OK Im hoping to avoid the World War II bit, but the Americans did their greatest fighting in the Pacific, the Soviets fought the Nazis in Europe more than the US did. True it was our industry that kept them afloat but it was their fighting and dying that led to the ultimate destruction of Germany. Paris is closer to Berlin than Moscow, and who was in Berlin first?

Thank you for noticing that, because I thought everyone was going to 'gloss over' this particular point, that the war was essential fought in two separate places and that the American contribution was considerably more in one place than it was the other.

 

Why does everytime world opinion turns against the US, some Americans immediately brought out World War 2? Why can't we look at the root cause of their anger? And don't say that Euros dislike the USA becuase they are anti-semitic and that Jews ruled this country by proxy.

 

DM
I think Europeans still have residual anti-Semitism entrenched within their societies. Their press, especially in France with a large muslim population, facilitates these positions.

I one billion percent agree.

JF
I think a poll should ask which country ensures the security of the entire world.

Yes, the U.S. gets involved in a lot of conflicts. However, if the U.S. wasn't there, there would be even more conflicts enveloping the globe.

Again, I agree.

R7
Argh, let's not invoke WWII again...

[Homer Simpson voice] Must resist...temptation...[/Homer Simpson voice]

Jet-Eye-Blah
Why does everytime world opinion turns against the US, some Americans immediately brought out World War 2?

Fine, I'll bring up Bosnia, a more recent conflict that took US involvement to solve.

The point is that criticizing the US is one thing, but to say that the US is the biggest threat to world peace, when everyone knows that the next time an international effort is required and/or someone is in trouble...who you gonna call?

 

If they think we (the US) are such a threat, then why do they still take our money, enjoy our entertainment, and sell us their goods??

 

I think Europeans still have residual anti-Semitism entrenched within their societies. Their press, especially in France with a large muslim population, facilitates these positions.

I one trillion percent agree, and I also think Europeans tend to create a double standard when it comes to Israel. They think that because Jews look white, their state should follow the same general program as the European nations. They forget that the people are still Semitic, their country is still in the middle east, and a number of ultra-orthodox Jews who had been living in the area since before the state of Israel was created wanted it to be a theocracy. Israel made a lot of compromises so its government would be more amenable to the west, but it can't turn its back on the wishes of its people entirely.

 

Why is it that every time people mention the US in a negative light, the past comes up as some iron clad indication of Goodness? Please. It's like suggesting that because of the Holocaust, Israel could never harm a minority...

Of course the United States clearly represents a threat to world peace. This sentence will have most of you - those, that is, totally incapable of thinking outside the square - imaging that I'm about to suggest the US will nuke us all to the point where only Keith Richards and a few cockroaches remain. Look at it this way - the US is the only hyperpower we have left. Therefore, it holds the lion's share of power, responsibility, and influence. It therefore doesn't translate that saying "America threatens world stability" or the like is a remark indicating America is bellicose and dangerous. What's not to say that, through the current Administration's take on foreign affairs (i.e. **** in the wind, smiling all the while...) that a disgruntled extremist group won't nuke a US city, provoking a retaliatory strike that could push a region into war? (And for those who think that a) 9/11 wasn't an indirect result of US foreign policy, and b) that understanding someone's actions is a sin and equal to justifying their behavior, such as terrorists, you can leave now, this isn't going to get through to you) If the US offends one group with a dirty nuke, and that group is, say, Syrian, what's preventing the US' retaliation sparking a global war?

By wielding the amount of power it does, the US has three options that I can think of - and thus, there could be more - to threaten world peace.

1) Kill us all with bombs and nukes - highly unlikely, yet you Americans who took offense are thinking that's what people are saying. Tad narrow for a worldview, right?

2) Start a small conflict with a nation that spills over and spreads,

3) Pursue an aggressive foreign policy which results in terrorism and crime.

E_S

 

This thread is a hoot!

God damned stoopid Europeens with thar stoopid liberalism.

// sigh

 

So you guys don't agree that this "Israel" business was the worst idea of the 20:th century?

The entire cause of the middle east conflict is the very existance of the state of Israel...which exists almost solely on American support.

I'm not saying there is someone in the Palestine/Israel conflict that is "right" and the other "wrong", but I hardly see Israel as the poor innocent little bambi-eyed one, THATS for sure.

/Z

 

They think that because Jews look white, their state should follow the same general program as the European nations.

Thing is, not all Jews in Israel are white. Nearly a million emmigrated there from surrounding Arab and African nations between the 30's and 70's, and they and their descendants make up nearly half of the population.

 

but I hardly see Israel as the poor innocent little bambi-eyed one, THATS for sure.


It's a leap o' logic between "Israel, the state, was a bad idea" to that statement.

E_S

 

Explain to me in what manner it was a good idea.

Here's a link for you to enjoy while pondering.

/Z




Red-Seven: Call me biased, but I'm going to null that link...i dunno, something about the swastika and the star of david just doesn't sit well with me...funny that.

 

I'm aware of Sharon's terrorist past (along with Menachim begin etc). Again, how does this translate to Israel's inception in the British mandate of Palestine?

Trust me, you're going to get more receptive responses from me than others here.

E_S

 

Your above post E_S demonstrates why we Americans resent much of that type of this internationalist thinking and must look out for ourselves.

It also exemplifies irrational fear that some internationalists have of the power that the United States has. They call us 'dangerous' and a 'threat to world peace' yet in the same typically hypocritical breath say that terrorists have justification for their deeds, thereby excusing their behaviors.

How insulting. How typical of thinking that abides within the ineffective and bloated beaurocratic slug that is the United Nations. It is no wonder why that the United States chooses to act when weak and pacifistic nations stand idly by and won't even lift a finger to help the Iraqis recover.

The Europeans stood by in Bosnia while we sent our young men and women there (myself personally included).

They stood by in Rwanda.

Oh, there are so many examples... I could go on and on.

Yet, the United States, acting on it's self-interests, is scorned and it is said that 'we deserve what we get'.

At least we don't behave as our European 'allies' do when they take nations over - we rebuild them. How many nations in the history of the Earth have conquered nations in major wars to rebuild them and let them have their nations back? I would venture to guess not one in history other than the United States. See: France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Phillipines, New Guinea, in the near future Iraq, et cetera et cetera.

The United States is the greatest nation in the history of this planet - never has a nation been more generous and more passive in strength as we have. Our Founders were correct to be wary of the Europeans and their shifting alliances, etc, and not to get overly involved in them.

On Israel, the only reason the State of Israel currently still exists and isn't wiped off the face of the planet is by the support of the United States. What a hypocritical shame for the Europeans who commited such unfathomable atrocities to still be doing everything they can to smite the Israeli state and inevitably the Jews themselves. As I stated above, there still resides and ugly undercurrent of anti-Semitism within Europe that unbelievably has not washed away. The UN itself is rabidly anti-Israel in its policies, even though they helped found the State to begin with.

Israel is one of the few true allies the United States has. I've been there, and I'm glad we can be there for those people. It's the only democracy in the area, and we owe our support to them.