Amph Game of Thrones - HBO (Book Spoilers must be masked/HTR)

Theon isn't one of Stark's kids (notice no direwolf.)

You find this out in the first 10 pages of the book, so I don't think it's a spoiler to say he's being fostered there from another noble family.

 

Did anyone else think the slurping sound effects went a few seconds a tad too long?

 

I did, yeah.

Also, Hav, I don't think Martin ever really puts much emphasis on that aspect of either Renly or Loras. At least not now 75% of the way through A Clash of Kings and the only reference there has been to that that's anywhere near overt is Stannis' comments at their parly.

 

Theon was the guy with the hooker, and shooting the bow, back at Winterfell. He's not one of the Stark kids; that's the main reason they keep hitting us about once an episode for the last three episodes with "Theon Greyjoy is Theon Greyjoy" scenes going over his backstory.

There are three guys about the same age originally at Winterfell: Jon Snow, Robb Stark, and Theon Greyjoy. Then there are the rest of the Stark kids: Sansa, Bran, Arya, Rickon. Rickon is the toddler who you barely ever see and who's still back at Winterfell. Robb is the oldest Stark kid, who's now sitting in place of his father as Lord of Winterfell. He was the one on the throne giving Tyrion a hard time in the fourth episode. He's got curly reddish hair, a bit of scruff.

Theon isn't a Stark kid, but like Jon, he was raised with them. He's got the dull brownish hair and a sort of weaselly, gaunt face. He's also sort of an ass; if someone's acting like an ass, odds are good it's Theon and not Robb. Theon's deal, which is what they keep hitting with each scene (Tyrion giving him crap in the fourth episode, him complaining to Ros this episode), is that he's one of the Greyjoys, who are one of the great houses. The Greyjoys revolted against Robert during his reign (to be clear, [not really spoilers, just book background the show hasn't gotten to yet, but I'll highlight to be safe] not out of loyalty to the Targaryens. The Greyjoys are the rulers of the Iron Islands, the home of the Ironmen, who are sort of Vikings, with a long history of sea raiding and pillaging. Balon Greyjoy, Theon's father, wanted to declare himself king again -- the Seven Kingdoms refers to a historical time when there actually were seven kings, before the Targaryens conquered the land and united them under one king -- and go back to raiding and pillaging at will). Robert and Ned put down the revolt, killing Balon Greyjoy's two elder sons in the process. Theon, his only surviving son, was about eight, and was taken as a ward and given to Ned Stark to raise. Thus Theon is effectively a hostage assuring his father's good behavior, but being raised by Ned Stark also allowed a chance to try to raise Theon as a human being. Rather than an Ironman. Which is one of the things Tyrion was giving him crap about; the idea that Theon had been effectively turned into a Northman, loyal to Ned Stark. Yet he's aware of that, and he's sort of resentful. So Theon's sort of, kind of, an honorary Stark kid, in that he was raised in their house. But he's not related, and he's not all that close to the family. He, Robb, and Jon got along because they were about the same age, but he wasn't close to Bran and Arya the way Jon was. And certainly Ned didn't love him the way he loved Jon; he just raised him. He's more like a close family friend.

Robb: [image=http://static.tvfanatic.com/images/gallery/robb-stark-picture.jpg]

Theon: [image=http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/21900000/Theon-Greyjoy-game-of-thrones-21930279-636-720.png]

EDIT: Dawud, keep going. It's not obvious to begin with, but by the end of the books, there should be enough for you to notice that it's distinctly there. Martin doesn't put a huge emphasis on it, sure, but it's there.

 

Theon is a douche.

There, I said it.

 

I'm having a similar problem. Everyone looks exactly the same.

 

HBO has some behind the scenes extras about the Houses on demand.

 

That's a bit racist to Westerosians

 

Haha! No, it's just they've done such a good job of casting a cohesive North that they've cast a bunch of actors that look like they were probably all up for the same part.

 

Jory Cassel was the only person that I had trouble distinguishing from the others, at least at first. Once he started getting some significant scenes with Ned in King's Landing, it became easier.

Alas, poor Jory is dead now.

 

Wow... That's the only thing I am able to say about Viserys' death.

 

THUNK.....

 

I was so excited for that Viserys scene.... haha.

 

Some comments about Episode 7, with spoilers for those who haven't seen it:

Yeah, I pretty much figured that trying to kill Danaerys was a really stupid idea, and that Drogo would react that way. What the hell was Robert thinking? That you'd kill Khal Drogo's wife, and he'd just sit there and say: "Boy, that was a damn shame"? That Drogo, or Mormont, or Viserys (if he had till been alive when the hit on Danaerys went down, as Robert believed he would be) wouldn't figure out what happened? Even assuming that Robert's assassins used the Tears of Lys, it would have been suspicious. Jon Arryn was an old man who was seemingly loved by all, so his death could be easily explained away. Danaerys was a young, healthy girl with lots of enemies - her death couldn't be. Robert allowed his judgment to be clouded by his obsessive hatred of the Targeryens, and didn't fully think out the consequences of his actions - unforgivable in a King. And as for Ned, he should have brought up these practical considerations instead of moral ones.

And as for Ned, I think we've found his flaw: the fact that he's too honorable for his own - or anyone else's - good. There's a Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode (entitled "In The Pale Moonlight", in case you're interested) in which Ben Sisko gets involved in a plot that eventually kills a Romulan Senator, and brings the Romulans into the Federation's losing war against the Dominion. In the end, Sisko understands that his own personal self-respect and sense of honor aren't as important as keeping his people from being overrun and enslaved. Agreeing to give your all for a cause that is bigger than yourself may end up meaning not only being willing to sacrifice your life, but also your honor and self-respect. Ned doesn't see that, or refuses to. There are things bigger than Eddard Stark's personal sense of honor - things like keeping a monster like Joffrey off the Iron Throne, and keeping the Seven Kingdoms from descending into civil war. He had chances to keep those things from happening - Renly's offer probably being the most sensible and palatable among them - and turned them down because they offended his sense of honor. This decision may have appealed to his sense of honor and respect for the letter of the law, but it was a disaster for the Seven Kingdoms. I haven't read the novels, and I don't know what happens during Joffrey's reign - but I already know that no good can come of it. And Ned could have prevented it, and should have, no matter what.

 

Re: Daenerys

Varys was the one most responsible for sending the assassin after Dany. As we saw in episode 4, Varys was working with Magister Illyrio to bring the Targaryens back to Westeros. When he sent the assassin, the assumption was that Viserys was still alive, and that he would assist Khal Drogo in leading the khalasar across the ocean.

From careful readings of the books, it is clear that Varys is the one pulling most of the strings in Westeros. They don't call him the Spider for nothing.

 

Had the assassination attempt been successful, though, and Daenerys been poisoned, would Drogo really have been so pissed off as to take the unprecedented step of crossing the sea to invade another completely unknown country purely for revenge? Drogo swears to do so now, when he has a son to place on the throne, but would he do it without that? And if he would, Robert had no way to know that the barbarian horselord in an arranged marriage would have come to love Dany, which isn't exactly the most common outcome in that society. If Robert hadn't sent assassins, and Drogo and Dany had shown up on his shores in two years, or their son in twenty years, you'd be saying, "What an idiot, that Robert! Why didn't he kill them when he had the chance?" You can always criticize when you know the outcome, but Robert didn't make a wildly unreasonable decision here. Maybe he would have been better off listening to Ned, but deciding to stop the dynasty in its tracks wasn't exactly a wildly irrational decision with no thought to the consequences. The tragedy of ASOIAF isn't that people keep making the "wrong" decision (with hindsight) because they're stupid, and we should all be roaring, "Ned's an idiot, Robert's an idiot, Cat's an idiot!" It's that people keep making the wrong decision because they're smart and well-intentioned but misinformed, or underinformed, or impatient, or overconfident, or don't understand their opponent or the framework they're working in, or overprotective,

 

Damn I wish I had HBO GO so I could read those HTR's.....

 

You don't need HBO GO to view episode 7...

 

Ha.

 

It's more like this with me. I don't have access to HBO where I'm at, so I have to use an alternative.

Evil.

 

Not to derail this discussion, but it occurs to me this format might be the only way to properly adapt a lot of books. Like Dune.

Oh, and Sunday's episode blew my mind. It was the first episode of Game of Thrones where, not having read the books, I wasn't languishing in boredom but watching because I felt like I had to.

 

I wonder if the success of this series will possibly mean a Wheel of Time series sometime in the future? That would be so sweet to watch.

 

I don't know about that. Wouldn't there be some very long stretches of nothing really happening?