ST George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

What I do fear now and where I found several hints in all the reports during the last months is, that they will probably make out of the Skywalker saga more a Solo/Ford saga (artefacts, Solo kids, Solo dad, Solo Spin-Off, Millenum Falcon everywhere etc.). Regarding his popularity and now with Lucas out, this may have been the deal with Harrison Ford.

 

There's still many things in play here... I never did expect the ST to slavishly follow a detailed Lucas script... but I think the reason why I'm a bit dissapointed by this news is that when I see stormtroopers, tie fighters, Tatooine, a Darth Vader character that isn't Darth Vader, an R2 character that isn't R2 etc., I was kind of holding onto the hope that there was some underlying bit of superlative narrative that would connect all the movies and provide good reason for the use of this iconography. However, the more Lucas distances himself from this, the more I fear that TFA will simply be another reboot/remake for the low attention span generation.

We'll see...

 

See, I could have sworn film was a collaborative medium. I wonder how Star Wars would have succeeded without McQuarrie, Williams, Hamill, Ford, Fisher, and countless others. I wonder if the film wouldn't be seen as a cheesy knockoff with Lucas had got his Vaseline tinted lenses he wanted.

I love Lucas for creating Star Wars, but that doesn't mean he is the only reason it is a success. Far from it.

Or, most likely, they are doing their own thing.

 

In this thread: people talking past each other.

 

The first rule in the film business is that you CANNOT take things personally. Perhaps when all was said and done, TPTB just didn't think the direction Lucas wanted the story to go was the right one and changed things accordingly. If all of George's ideas were thrown out(and we don't know that yet), there was probably a good reason for doing it. Maybe they just sucked. Who knows. Sticking to the direction George wanted things to go out of some misguided sense of loyalty, even if they thought it was the wrong direction, would be a horrible idea and likely result in a bad film. I just want what's best for STAR WARS. If throwing out George's ideas is what gets me that, then as I said before, so be it!

 

The deal was that they could use Lucas' treatments if they wanted to. If I buy a sandwich, I can eat it or I can throw it away. It's my choice.

Right, people like Abrams and Kasdan.

They ended up liking Abrams' idea better. It happens.

And I hope we end up liking it better too, because that's the movie we're going to get.

 

One needs to allow for the possibility that the new ideas could be better or worse. But we have no idea at this point.

 

and Solo having a bigger role than Luke.

 

It isn't douchey because GL said his Story Treatments were part of the deal, and then Disney threw them out. Lucas had already started the ST at the time of the sale of Star Wars to Disney, and he told them that he wanted a smooth transition that wouldn't affect the work that was already done; Disney agreed with him, and now apparently changed their mind. Now I would agree with you about it being douchey if Lucas's Treatments were not part of the deal, and later Lucas makes this statement that they didn't use his ideas because of sour grapes; but that is not what happened.

 

I have noticed that too. I am not sure I like that.

 

Well something came to mind after my last post about Lucas' own changes that may help to put things in perspective.

Lucas' first few drafts of The Star Wars were interesting stories but were also major messes and probably impossible to put on film. They HAD to be adapted and edited down to what we all love about ANH. Would the original drafts, if made into movies, be the hits that the OT were? Impossible to tell but they certainly didn't seem to flow (at least on paper).

So, let's say Lucas had complete stories (and we don't even know if he had more than just a general outline at best). By the time the movie were to go into production or even filming, the story, screenplay, script, etc would have been edited. The final product may have been vastly or at least noticeably different than the first few drafts.

Now, we have TFA. Lucas handed over his stories (and AGAIN we have NO idea to what extent these were cohesive or completed) to those who purchased Lucasfilm from him. Then he handpicks Kennedy to take over and contributes to handpicking Abrams.

Are they obligated in sticking to the stories Lucas handed over and not edit them at all? Especially considering that Lucas himself most likely would have edited them anyway? And it's not like they'd ever edit, re-write, and then hand it back to Lucas for approval. Lucas was out of the picture at that point and his approval wasn't needed. What Lucas handed them was a starting point as others have said.

Thinking of things from that perspective would suggest that Lucas's story wasn't completely trashed but rather "evolved" from the original ideas Lucas handed over. That makes it seem a lot better and at least somewhat in the realm of Lucas' vision.

Lucas himself may be over-exaggerating the extent to which JJ, LK, KK etc are not using his stories.

 

It is but without the central figure in the case of Star Wars nothing else would matter. We wouldn't know the name of 99.9% of these other people nor would we care.

If Lucas didn't choose McQuarrie, Williams, Hamill, Ford, Fisher, and others like Williams or Burtt or Johnston or so many others you know what would have happened? He would have got other people. I think you will agree his ability to choose people turned out to be pretty good. His ability to see talent is a huge reason for his success.

He isn't the only reason for it's success but he is the main reason for it's success and the whole reason for it's creation in the first place. Then there is the process of going from idea and scripts to development and production as a movie. Then it's George then Alan Ladd. Why did Alan Ladd support the picture? Because of his faith in George as a film-maker.

We can't also forget that it was Lucas and only Lucas and no one else who decided to make Vader and Luke's father into one person. That was his call and everything in Star Wars storytelling for the other 5 films after the first flowed from that.

They were only drafts as you say. Making drafts into movies is a whole other thing. The Star Wars was certainly impossible to film. It'd be hard enough to now.

That's always what I thought was going to be the case. For all we know they pull various ideas from the 3 outlines of the ST he gave them and are going to use them in the first movie and then push other ideas back or out into another movie etc.

 

Man, do a lot of people think Luke is gonna die? My money was on the idea of the Force awakening meant a lot of potential for a Jedi Master in the next two films. Not to mention it seems the point of this story is to find Luke.

 

yep, I skipped mentioning that TFA is rumoured to be a Han movie, since it was already mentioned everywhere. But this is now the whole picture and simply worrying me.

 

the bottom line is that we don't know.
it won't be until much later that we we know how much gl influenced the sequels. i don't think HE even knows yet. he knows his treatments aren't the basis but there may still be elements in there. i'm not worried either way.

 

I don't think Luke will die but how do we know that they didn't make the movie a search for Luke in order to give Han a bigger role.

@nightangel
It was said numerous times before than VII was Han's movie (as much as Rey/Finn???) and the he was co-lead with Finn/Rey.

 

uhh, yah you're right. good point.

 

While I still cling to the notion that GL should be the sole idea in terms of the framework involving OT characters. To just use OT characters as a way to get us to accept the trilogy is just whoring them out. I do want them to continue star wars, as it was stated above, "whats best for star wars" but i dont want them to urinate all over GL's Skywalker saga.

Considering that GL expressed how he wanted to go to a theater and see star wars as a fan, thats revealing in the sense that when youre so inside of the matrix you cant see the big picture in any other way than what GL had in mind. When youre just a fan you expect such and such. 9 times out of ten the fans are way off. GL is always right. The overarching themes are celebrated even if a character didnt meet your perfect expectations. If you focus on the jar jar you lose sight of the love that drove someone to the dark side....love. How you want to view the PT is not relevant, whats relevant is thats the story GL made.

- If you look at the framework - he is genius - he creates myth - and he knows how to do so. The writers just need to make that framework tangible to the fans all the while staying true to the spirit of the story. On the one hand Im glad GL will get to be surprised but on the other hand im disappointed to even think that the Kathleen/JJ/StoryGroup/Disney would spit on any idea he had and just make up their own and I actually just dont believe that at all. Kathleen wouldnt burn that bridge with GL. Abrams and co wouldnt just be like...Dude that SUCKS. They would make it work and show GL the credit he deserves.

As for a "Solo" themed trilogy, im pretty sure that wont be the case, its no secret that HF got some perks, pay, and other films such as Indy to be made as an incentive. I understand theres been a lot of talk as this being the pass the torch but they shouldnt have called it episode 7 unless its an ACTUAL continuation. Since it is, they should do it GL's way (the framework at least) and then they can show off their own idea after Episode 9 credits roll...THEN pass the torch.

Technically this is still a rumor but if its true, thats my 3 cents.

 

It wasn't "if they wanted to". Lucas made clear that he wanted the ST to continue with his Treatments before he agreed to sell the Star Wars Franchise; but Lucas doesn't seem too upset, so Disney got away with it. And yes, Disney likes J.J.'s ideas better than GL's; so I too hope they are right, because I am a Star Wars fan.

 

You can tell from George Lucas' paparazzi "interview" that he has said "good riddance" to Star Wars. Sounds like his comments are akin to "they modified my story so it's no longer my story and they are doing their own thing". I sense a bit of resentment.

 

You know what I think? You know what I think? You know what I think?

I think Disney owns it, they can do what they want with it. Looks to be they are going all out to give everyone the best possible Star Wars film. Could it fail? Yep, but lets put those crystal balls away for the time being.

Star Wars doesn't need Lucas to be great, nor does it lose it's purity just because he isn't involved. That's just nonsense.

EDIT: I'm glad he's not involved.

 

We actually have a very good example of this. The difference between the OT and the prequels. I wonder why the new teams seem to have been mining the OT ideas like crazy, but have been avoiding the prequel era creative. Must be mystery.

 

the prequels were gl with much less input from others who loved the series. maybe kurtz was a jerk, maybe not, but its no doubt that he loved it and had a lot of good ideas.
the problem with the prequels seemed to be not enough people butting heads with GL.
kirschner probably went off the script a bit and it ended up being my 2nd fav movie of all time. first one is ANH
HF altered a bunch of lines and it ended up awesome...etc

 

I could still live with it that this movie is just the search for Luke for whatever reason and Han maybe a little more present, if it is for the reason of a really good story. Also with the possibility that Luke's role will be bigger in the next movies. But do we have any hint, that it was done storywise and that Luke's role + his heir (yes, a kid ) will be bigger in the next movies than a cameo? For me a big disappointment would be that Lucas had a Luke kid planned and they changed for an unrelated character.

 

Yea, he's right.