How MIDICHLORIANS still preserve the MYSTERY of the FORCE

The above purpose: Differences in Anakin's view of the Force VS. Luke's view. Read.

 

Yep. If they are so important, then Yoda would explain them to Luke. Just because the audience knows of them at this point (watching the films sequentially) doesn't mean that Luke does.

Of course, the fact that Yoda doesn't tell Luke about midis shows how unimportant they've become by that point.

 

In fact, really - if you look at the difference in Anakin's training and Luke's.

The midi's were so unimportant and completely distracting from the concept of the Force, that they were left out of training on purpose by the last Jedi masters.

Sort of like a teacher throwing out the failed lesson plans from one semester to the next, eh?

 

Most of what Luke learned was the more fighting style of the Jedi. Midichlorians are not involved in fighting a Sith. There was no need for Luke to learn about them.

There's also the possiblity that Obi-Wan and Yoda realized relying too much on Midichlorians took something away from the Force and decided not to tell Luke about them until he learned about the Force on a less than science-level.

 

There's also the possiblity that Obi-Wan and Yoda realized relying too much on Midichlorians took something away from the Force and decided not to tell Luke about them until he learned about the Force on a less than science-level.

Isn't that what I'm saying?


Also, MoonStruck , they did very little combat training with Luke, almost zero. His training focused on 1) using the Force and 2) resisting the Dark Side.

2 is a curious addition to Jedi training, and you have to ask why that is more important than lightsaber lessons, which we never see? There is more than one reason.

 

Ok, number one: my name is Moonstruck. No capital s. Thank you.

Two: the difference between what I'm trying to say and what you're saying is importance. I think Obi-Wan and Yoda still thought Midichlorians important, but not nessuseary for Luke to learn at that moment.

Three: I saw it more as combat training than mind. Like you said, he focused on using the Force (useful in battle) and resisting the Dark Side (to keep from losing control). Both are very useful in battle. Could you tell me what Luke learned that did not pertain to battle?

 

>>>>...they did very little combat training with Luke, almost zero.

Well, Luke's first lesson with Obi Wan was how to use a lightsaber...

>>>>2 is a curious addition to Jedi training, and you have to ask why that is more important than lightsaber lessons, which we never see? There is more than one reason.

Well, take a look at Yoda's "Dark Side" lesson;

LUKE: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?

YODA: You will know. When you are calm, at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

The key being the aim of achieving a state of calmness, passivity.

Compare that to Qui Gon's midichlorian speech;

Qui Gon: When you learn to quet your mind, you will hear them speaking to you.

Fundamentally, the "lesson" is the same- when your mind is quiet, when you are at peace, you will know what the right thing to do is.

However, the focus is slightly different- in the PT, the focus seems to be on following the Will of the Force; in the OT, the focus is on avoiding the Dark Side.

>>>The midi's were so unimportant and completely distracting from the concept of the Force, that they were left out of training on purpose by the last Jedi masters.

The thing is, midis weren't exactly a part of anyone's training in the PT either. He asked Qui Gon what midichlorians were, because Yoda was talking about them. Qui Gon told him, and they were never mentioned again. They are involved in the Prophecy, and the Jedi's selection procedure, but as far as I can tell, that's about it.

 

Scott " I think midichlorians are supposed to simply be microscopic living things. That's all there is to it; living things generate the Force. "

What total and absolute madness !! :0 I'll explain why but first :

Scott: " I mean, the Jedi could have determined who they would train by only selecting those with blonde hair and blue eyes; the result would be that only those with blonde hair and blue eyes would become Jedi; but that wouldn't make blonde hair and blue eyes a medical/biological aspect of the Force, would it? "

Are you seriously trying to say that in the plot of TPM as GL is trying to explain , nay *show* the audiance why Anakin is special, why it's worth it in the mind of Qui Gon to train him, why he is the chosen one, given the comparison with Yoda and Obi Wan's surprise, that ultimately Midiclorians mean nothing !!
That their just an arbitary thing the Jedi use like oh say..height or hair colour !?!


Come On !!!

In film, as a medium, every shot, every word, every sound is chosen with telling the story and advancing/enriching the plot ! GL himself says in the TPM commentary that Midiclorians are a way to show Anakin is special.GL in the TPM directors commentary talks about them being the way to measure abilitity in the Force !!


Scott, the very fact that Midiclorians are mentioned AT ALL procludes your very odd and almost crazy notion that they mean nothing ! Anakin's count of them and the fact that 'that' is what decides for Qui Gon that he is special *IN WORKING PLOT TERMS* as well as what is said show us that clearly the Jedi see them part of the mechanic of the Force !!!

Scott : " They are no more attuned to or connected to the Force than any other living thing."

Then why in Gehenna, Hades, Hell, and South London are they mentioned at all !!! Why doesn't Qui Gon say, ooo look, this boy has a high white blood cell count ! Or look aren't the colours pretty in this kids urine sample, are those liver cells ?
Why do the Jedi use Midiclorians at all ? FROM A PLOT PRESPECTIVE !?!

You say :
'Because they help you hear the will of the Force !'

Ok why is that important to the Jedi ? Because the better you hear the will of the Force, the better chance you have of becoming a better Jedi- even if you say being able to hear isn't the same as listening, why do the Jedi even bother !?!

Because they, who have much more knowledge of the Force than we do, don't see it as arbitary- they attach an importance to Midis that even goes so far as to mean their most important prophecy is attached to them !!

The most important Jedi prophecy isn't based around 'a powerful show of the Force' but around A HUGE NUMBER OF MIDCLORIANS !!!

How can you actually try to claim that Midi's don't mean anything ?

I know that the Jedi aren't portrayed as the wise beings we thought they would be in the PT- but ther is a reason they use midis- they firmly believe they count !!!! And before you say 'well they were wrong'- their prophacy did come true in the end.

But yes they were idiots our Jedi in the PT

However it is far far too much of a strech to say they were so stupid that they put SOOOOOOO much importance into Midiclorians and they really mean as little as you make out.

Scott : "The perspective that TPM gives us is that the Force is all about midichlorians- but it's a false perspective. "

Noo I don't see that as being even remotely possible.
Everything about midis as explained in TPM is FROM A PLOTING POINT as well as a story point, clearly a case of 'what you see is what you get'.
GL himself says so in that TPM commentary, and your 'double bind' theory for midis has no evidence at all. It only works as a means to justify the existance of midis, to make them seem unimportant and thus NOT the mechanisim for the Force they are.

Scott : " Coinsider Palpatine- from Naboo, apparently born in the Republic, but not trained by the Jedi. And yet he becomes an incredibly powerful Sith Lord. If this power was determined by midichlorians, then why didn't the Jedi train him? "

 

>>>>>Scott: " I mean, the Jedi could have determined who they would train by only selecting those with blonde hair and blue eyes ?<<<<

>>>>Are you seriously trying to say that in the plot of TPM as GL is trying to explain , nay *show* the audiance why Anakin is special, why it's worth it in the mind of Qui Gon to train him, why he is the chosen one, given the comparison with Yoda and Obi Wan's surprise, that ultimately Midiclorians mean nothing !!
That their just an arbitary thing the Jedi use like oh say..height or hair colour !?!

I?m not saying that they are completely arbitrary- just that they aren?t the be-all and end-all of the Force, as you are making out. (Hence my basketball analogy.)

His midichlorian count is very clearly and directly linked to several things;

-That the Force is unusually strong with him
-That, had he been born in the Republic, he would have been detected at an early age and trained as a Jedi
-That he is somehow connected to the prophecy of the Chosen One
-That Qui Gon believes, not just that it would be a good idea for him to be trained, but that he *MUST* be trained. That the fact he was somehow missed is apparently a serious mistake that the Force has made, that he was supposed to be born in the Republic, and it?s his duty to ensure that the Chosen One becomes a Jedi.

However, it isn?t ANYWHERE in the film (or commentary, interviews etc.) connected in any way to ?force potential?, or ?potential power?, or the ability to manipulate the Force. That?s a simple, flat out fact (and if it?s not, I would welcome a direct quote/statement/proof to the contrary- I have been looking for one for about 3 years!) If this post was going to be one paragraph, then that?s the paragraph it would be. (However, I?ve got some time to kill?)

>>>>In film, as a medium, every shot, every word, every sound is chosen with telling the story and advancing/enriching the plot ! GL himself says in the TPM commentary that Midiclorians are a way to show Anakin is special.GL in the TPM directors commentary talks about them being the way to measure abilitity in the Force !!

?Special?- Yes, absolutely.

"Measuring ability in the Force"- I?m sorry, but I'm going to have to ask you to PPOR on that one. (If you look through this thread- at least I think it's this thread- you'll find that I've transcribed the section from the commentary where he talks about midichlorians- I think GoMer did too, and it's *exclusively* about the Force's influence over the individual- there?s NOTHING about them being related to an individuals power, or ability to use the Force.)

>>>>Scott, the very fact that Midiclorians are mentioned AT ALL procludes your very odd and almost crazy notion that they mean nothing ! Anakin's count of them and the fact that 'that' is what decides for Qui Gon that he is special *IN WORKING PLOT TERMS* as well as what is said show us that clearly the Jedi see them part of the mechanic of the Force !!!

The Jedi clearly see them as being somehow connected with an individuals ability to hear the Will of the Force. Everything about the Jedi?s life is focussed on following the Will of the Force, so it logically follows that they would only bother to train those particularly able to hear it. They choose those at an early age who they think the Force is going to be strong with, and they use midichlorian counts in order to make that prediction- something that doesn?t require a team of thousands of Jedi roaming the galaxy, sensing the aura of every newborn baby. (It?s my speculation that this is no more a direct relationship than using someone?s height to predict their ability to play basketball.)

It is very clearly (and hardly subtly!) demonstrated with Anakin?s ?lucky? podracing, and his ?lucky? shot on the Trade Federation ship. He is being illustrated as being incredibly lucky (and we all know what that means), and just as clearly illustrated as having no control over the Force. (The DVD hammers this point home- using a magnet to grab an out of r