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Lit In a Mirror, Mousely - The Disney Universe Timeline

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havoc123, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2013
    So inspired by the One Canon idea, I thought I'd do my own edition. This is based on how I think the Disney Timeline came to be and the overall resulting effects that happen to the Star Wars universe as a result of the point of divergence.

    It begins with Meetra Surik AKA the Jedi Exile accepting Kreia's proposal, essentially agreeing to succeed her and rule the Sith Empire, becoming the new Darth Traya. In this, Surik would have gone down the Sith path, slaughtering the Jedi Masters herself.

    With that, a new Sith Order is founded made out of Surik's original crew alongside the remains of the Sith Empire that Nihilus, Sion and the first Darth Traya ran. As a Sith, Meetra Surik never goes to find and save Revan and instead wages war on the Republic and the remaining Jedi, however the Sith Military is still weak so while they have the advantage of having more Force Users than the Republic, they're still not capable of entirely crushing it.

    Revan continues with his original plan, as Surik's Sith Empire wages war on the Republic, he manages to corrupt Vitiate's mind but in a good way, this results him into turning into more of a Valkorion earlier. He's not on Zakuul though, so eventually he's cut down by his Sith who go on to join the bigger Sith Empire. At some point, Meetra Surik is slain, but her turn to the Dark Side have ripple effects that echo throughout Galactic history.

    The Jedi aren't reformed by her, obviously, so their return to strength comes in a different way. Instead of it being the Lost Jedi, her crew, that pioneer the recreation of the Jedi Order, its regional enclaves that survived. The Corellian Jedi being one example. They regroup in planets in the Eastern Galaxy to recuperate and rebuild themselves, founding a colony and Temple on the planets that would later be known as Jedha and Achch-To.

    Because the archives on Telos are never found after the Atris thing, a lot of knowledge is lost. Some think the Jedi Order never really came to be until it was founded on Jedha, some even think the first 'Dark Jedi who turned on the Order to found the Sith' is Meetra Surik herself. Even more knowledge is lost as instead of a huge pause inbetween the events of KOTOR2 and SWTOR, there's ongoing massive warfare between the Sith rampaging around the Galaxy, the Jedi trying to rebuild themselves and the Republic holding on to dear life. This results in things like synthetic lightsaber crystal creation being lost. Instead as a mirror to the Jedi in Legends, the Sith in New Canon take the crystals of fallen Jedi and 'bleed' them into being red, not knowing how that tradition of red lightsabers actually originated.

    Speaking on crystals, they eventually get named 'kyber' crystals and with a more prominent warfare between Jedi and Sith, they are found on a lot more planets and tend to be used as resources in place of other resources that would be used in Legends. This could be the case of Jedi growing crystals on more worlds as they reestablish themselves, and then the Sith going to 'bleed' them. They become so prominent that the name tends to be used for a lot of types of crystals that would get different classification in Legends.

    So the war between Republic and Sith continues, ripple effect results in some Sith villains being different across the centuries while others stay the same. Eventually they take over Coruscant, which would later be liberated. The Scourge of Malachor either happens as this universe's Ruusan and something akin to the Thought Bomb happens there, or it happens way back with Surik's death, maybe she tries to make a ritual against the Force itself and fails, being stopped by both Jedi and her own Sith. Either's a possibility.

    An equivalent of the Ruusan Reformation happens, but is differently named. Darth Bane still creates the Rule of Two, but maybe under different circumstances. From then on, some Banite Sith could be the same, some different. Plagueis and Palpatine are ones that largely stay the same, I'd imagine.

    Things up to Episode 1 stay the same, but the situation on worlds is... different. Maybe some battle on Ryloth is avoided, so its less of a sand world, maybe Kessel was never the victim of a Base Delta Zero. Lothal is settled, but in Legends it isn't. Tarkin's Militarists might be around, but so are some proto-Populists that start getting vocal around the time Dooku leaves the Jedi Order and goes into politics. Unlike in Legends, where Dooku is directly in on the Palpatine Grand Plan of him eventually selling out the CIS, here he actually believes in it. He spreads pamphlets, propaganda, I'm aware this happens to the Legends CIS too, but here the difference is Dooku is actually dedicated to it and is with Palpatine with the intention to betray him at the end, rather than the other way around.

    So this is a different Confederacy we have by the time of the Clone Wars. On the outside? Looks about the same, but in reality it doesn't commit as many atrocities because Dooku actually is fighting to win, even if he hides it from Sheev. Events of TCW happen in both timelines, but ONLY they happen in the Disney mirror timeline, along with the other NuCanon comics set in the era. And this is a longshot, but to add to the 'different' Confederacy, what if General Grievous is NOT Qymaen jai Sheelal here? He is never stated as being him. Going ONLY by TCW, his backstory seems different, he could be the NuCanon Bentilais san Sk'ar, so the 'General Grievous' here is less of a terror weapon. Still an effective military commander, but also less the face of the Confederacy.

    Additionally, people like Durge are never recruited, Cad Bane replaces them as the Confederacy's chief Bounty Hunter. There's less of an obvious reign of terror ongoing, so the Separatist Movement actually stays as an alternative to a central government ran from Coruscant. And this is another reason why the Empire is so short-lived in Nu-Canon. The Republic's militaristic past of conquest and expansion isn't as long, the Pius Dea and the early Republic days are vague legends due to information being lost from the First Jedi Purge that was continued by Meetra Surik. From then on, the Republic's history is more of defense against the Sith. Without the idea of the CIS being discredited, the Empire has less staying power, and this idea continues into the more decentralized New Republic along with the two new neo-Separatists we hear about, the Confederacy of Corporate Systems and the New Separatist Union.

    Technology in this universe would be based on slightly different principles. Instead of a bunch of big power sources, the Death Star here is powered by a large collection of 'kyber crystals'. Krennic's gonna work with what he has. We know Galen Erso pioneered 'synthetic kyber crystals', which I would pin to him and Krennic rediscovering and going through old information that was lost throughout the years. So they rediscover what was originally the creation of synthetic lightsaber crystals, but they don't quite get it right, hence synthetic kyber crystals being very volatile. And something of an addon, what if the rediscovery of Sith artifacts along their research, perhaps the same Atris had, corrupted Orson Krennic to go from being Galen's friend to someone who has no issues with his troopers shooting his wife?

    This is all speculation and mashing things up together of course, depending on what Disney does with the Old Republic Era, we might get a universe that isn't divergent but entirely different.
     
  2. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    It isn't a bad idea and could work. The old EU and NuEU could be separate timelines within the multiverse. Quite frankly to me it's the best solution.
     
    Diego Lucas and MasterPrince713 like this.
  3. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The origins of the Jedi and Sith will make things interesting for this idea.
    100,000 BBY if Abeloth makes it (or not) to the planet the Father, Son and Daughter are on for me.
    Just have to wonder about the Taung and Zhell fighting on Coruscant 100,000 years earlier.
    If they ever go back that far.
     
  4. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Speaking of Abeloth... this is far fetched, but what if aside from the holocrons through the endless research, Krennic comes across Abeloth who proceeds to take him over and attempts the thing she tried on the Alliance in Legends to the Empire in Nu-Canon? So "Krennic" is looking for an audience with the Emperor with the intention of either taking him over as well, or simply killing him and taking over. When Tarkin blows him up he doesn't do it just to twirl his mustache but actually to get rid of a very large galactic threat.

    Of course this is all far-fetched like I said, don't think Krennic shows any sign of actual Abeloth possession.
     
    BigAl6ft6 and Force Smuggler like this.
  5. Shadowrain10

    Shadowrain10 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2017
    Interesting concept.
     
  6. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Huh. What an interesting theory there @Havoc123. Probably nothing that sinister but we can have fun with it.
     
  7. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2015
    I do NOT want a multiverse. It makes everything a mess. Look at Marvel and DC. I can't make heads or tails of it anymore. Also, creating a multiverse goes against the Force, where destiny and everything happens for a reason. While I don't believe in that in real life, having a bunch of parallel universes means that decisions don't matter (at least to the audience). Legends was great but it can't exist anymore after the reboot. Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. Its the only way you can become what you were meant to be
     
  8. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Well, if the Han Solo movie shows us the Corellian system, we can see what planets are there and if Centerpoint Station is there or not.
     
  9. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I like this idea, that either KOTOR 1 or KOTOR 2 is a divergence point. We know in canon that the Sith were on Coruscant as of 5,000 BBY from the Tarkin novel.

    Now here's the thing--if we are going to create a divergence point, we want it to be "foolproof" from any media Disney might make in the future. We all know we are going to get a Sith and Jedi origin story for canon at some point.

    A Jedi origin story won't conflict with the EU because we never got a Jedi origin story. We got a story about Je'daii on Tython, a totally different group.

    A Sith origin story WOULD conflict with the EU and any divergence points we create here. We know canon has them around at 5,000 BBY--if we get a completely different Sith origin than the Exiles corrupting Korriban/Moraband aliens, this whole project will fall apart. But I have a solution.

    Kreia's True Sith. We all think they are Vitiate's group. What if they aren't? What if they are actually whatever canon Sith Disney invents?

    Here's my divergence point: KOTOR 2 light ending--Leads to the Legends universe, and Vitiate is in hiding and kills off the True Sith (who are actually whatever Disney canon Sith will end up being in the future). This works because we know the canon Sith were already around 5,000 BBY, well before KOTOR 2. Vitiate then starts the war in the Old Republic MMO and everyone thinks he's the True Sith that Kreia was talking about.

    KOTOR 2 dark side ending--Darth Meetra Surik attacks Vitiate and the True Sith (whoever Disney canon events show them to be) wipe them both out. These true Sith lead the Scourge of Malachor, and the canon universe goes from here.

    The only hiccup is this requires any canon Sith that Disney creates to be in hiding around 3951 BBY. However, unless Disney exactly makes a canon work featuring their Sith out in the open in exactly 3951 BBY, this might not be a problem.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  10. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    It's not as if their continuing legends-yes it was rebooted. And I have said many times that I don't want them to mine legends material out of respect for the dead.
     
  11. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Marvel is not a mess. DC became a mess from the Crisis on Infinite Earths because they destroyed their multiverse and tried the whole rebooted canon that didn't even last that long.

    This is a fan thread, obviously Disney isn't going to go back to Legends in the near future. As for letting the past die, that quote is coming from a villain.

    I know some people really hate Legends. So much so I suspect some of the praise of 7 and 8 come solely from some people's satisfaction that it destroyed Legends and not over the quality of the film itself (which I feel was quite low). Yes it made a lot of money, but X-Men the Last Stand is the highest grossing film with X-Men in the title despite being terrible. A lot of box office draw is based on previous franchise goodwill.

    However, there's no rule against fans making up their own head canon on how Legends can continue. It's not like anyone is going to sell it and make money etc and infringe on Disney's copyright.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  12. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Isn't the EU already a multiverse because of Abeloth?
     
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  13. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    That was legitimately compelling even though I only got about half of the references. But I do like the notion that Legends and canon have a core divergence point which is really fun.

    As for me, personally, there is a lot of Legends materiel I think still works, the Brian Daley Han Solo books I think is a good example, but finding a completely cut off divergence point is nifty.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  14. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2017
    So, because you didn't like it, you think that a lot of people like it just for destroying something they don't like?
     
  15. MasterPrince713

    MasterPrince713 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2017
    That's actually the way my own head canon currently works.

    If they make it official, no skin off my back.

    Not like they can erase Legends content scattered throughout the world.
     
  16. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    This isn't everyone, just a handful of posts on here repeatedly proclaiming in film threads how bad the eu is long past any relevance to the film itself, and accusing people critical of the film of being too attached to the eu even if they never brought it up in their criticism. Im not going to name names

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
     
  17. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
  18. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2017
    Aw man.

    It's almost like the same criticism of have of a small group of people who do the exact same thing but for the NuEU.
     
  19. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Such people do exist, but my criticisms of the nuEU have always been directly of the quality itself. I don't criticize it because it's not the EU, but because of its quality.

    I don't say that people critical of the EU are too attached to new canon. In fact I find many of their criticisms are valid.

    As proof from some of my earlier posts:

    NuCanon isn't bad because it's different, but because it's worse different in many ways. Look at the discussion of what Marvel has done to Leia in the Han and Leia thread. She is now a sociopath who disregards Luke's life to kill Vader, is physically abusive to Han, verbally abusive, and has a condescending behavior to Luke: "Are you going to make me regret it?" when reminded about Luke's comforting words, threatening to take Luke back to Tatooine, etc.

    Han is now a smuggler who gambles with the Rebellion's money and really lost what moral fiber he had

    Dr. Cylo and his clones are another example.

    I am providing detailed arguments on why I feel the new canon so far is lacking.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  20. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Criticizing perceived poor characterization from a particular story seems like a losing proposition given that one can easily pick an EU story in which any given character is written terribly.
     
  21. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Agreed if the poor characterization is a one off thing. But I feel it's been a trend in the Marvel canon comics, not just a 1 off thing. My issues with Luke's character encompass 2 films. I'd be happy if a split second scene of him igniting his lightsaber for a poorly judged pre-emptive strike was the only problem I had with his character.

    The EU had these bad trends too, but they could be mostly identified to a writer (like Denning) than a company orchestrated attempt at a certain way to write a character.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  22. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Yeah but that's an indictment on the "continuity" of Legends that characterization is not consistent.
     
  23. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    A perfectly valid criticism of the EU. An argument might be made however that the sheer number of bad things that happened made Luke act a certain way.

    One could say the same thing of canon Luke--the sheer number of bad things made him run off. However, there's a big difference between trying to do good but doing it poorly or ruthlessly (Compassion is for those who deserve it) and just not even trying to do good at all (You don't need Luke Skywalker!)
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  24. SpecForce Trooper

    SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2016
    I have a similar multiverse opinion.
    I definitely have EU and Nucanon as timelines in the overall universe. However I think KOTOR 2 is far too early for a split. The butterfly affect would be way too severe.
    Any birth after the split would be surely called into question. The mere existence of the film Skywalkers would be practically impossible. Here's how I have mine.

    I have the Disney timeline split off around roughly the Battle Of Endor. Poe Dameron, conceived right after the battle, would live in both timelines. A character like Rey, born long after, would only exist in the Disney timeline. Stories like Dark Empire would not happen in the Disney Timeline. A story like Rebels would exist in both timelines; it happens before the split. So basically the Nucanon and EU wouldn't be entirely separated. Prior to Endor a One Canon situation would be the case.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  25. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    I personally think a split ought to be in prehistory-maybe the Galaxy was formed a billion years earlier in canon or something. Just to ensure plausibility of difference.
     
    Force Smuggler likes this.