Is Akira Kurosawa the key? Ep 3

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by TK327, Dec 28, 2001.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TK327 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2001
    star 4
    The following is a tantalizing rumour posted by Ternian (a trusted provider of spoilers in the past) on the X Boards. If true, the relationship between Obi-Wan and Padme would mirror that of General Makabe and the Princess in The Hidden Fortress. I'd say we've already seen something along these lines in the relationship between Padme and Qui-Gon in TPM. Perhaps Lucas will run with this idea for Ben and Padme. I hope it's true...

    * Padme and Obi-Wan will have a "Leia & Han" style friendship in EpIII

    Obviously, this refers to the quipping and bickering, not the romance.

    Ternian also posted a rumour that it is Palpatine, not Obi-Wan who inflicts Anakin's injuries. But perhaps that rumour started here??
  2. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    I was transcribing the following passage for use in a different thread (one about Qui-Gon) when I noticed something in it that made me take a second to ponder one of the themes in SW: balance of the Force. Let me first say that I?m still not absolutely clear on what Lucas means by bringing the Force into ?balance? (I still think it has something to do with the way the Force interacts with Life), but after reading what Dan Richie had to say regarding the literal translation of the Japanese title for Kurosawa?s movie, The Hidden Fortress, I feel like I?m somehow getting closer to the truth:

    Three Bad Men in a Hidden Fortress. There is only one other man [besides the two farmers] in the major cast: the general. He looks and acts like the chambara hero, is properly impassive, properly loyal, properly active with the sword. There seems no indication of badness at all.

    Yet he is bad, and the princess knows why. If the farmers are bad it is because they are all too human, the general is bad because he is inhuman. In truly traditional fashion, he substituted his own sister, who died in place of the princess. Now, the princess turns on him: ?Kofuyu was sixteen. I am sixteen too. There is no difference between her life and mine. . . . You killed your sister and didn?t shed one tear. Only that loyal look of yours. I hate it.?

    The code of honor, such abstract concepts as fealty and obligation, are quite taken care of in this speech. Villains and heroes are, as always in a Kurosawa picture, equated. All three men are bad. Later on a fourth is added, and yet another feudal precept is cheerfully broken. The general?Mifune?fights with his old enemy?Susumu Fujita. Mifune wins, Fujita is humiliated for having lost and so, when Mifune and the princess and the farmers are captured by him, he lets them escape and quite sensibly decides to run away with them?something unheard of in the usual loyalty-to-the-last chambara. So all four men must be judged to be bad but when the majority is bad, something happens: the balance must be readjusted. Any majority adjusts the norm and it was our accepted morality that was at fault at the beginning. By the end of the picture we are calling the men good. The title, then, is to be understood as so many of Kurosawa?s titles must be?ironically.

    ? Dan Richie, The Films of Akira Kurosawa
    />
    TPM or deemed his actions immoral, and that?s when it hit me that ?balance? may have something to do with being able to adapt to change. I guess what I?m trying to say is that ?balance? doesn?t have so much to do with returning things back to the way they were in the good old days. Nor does it have to do with formulating plans that would guarantee to provide for an ideal anticipated future. I think ?balance? has more to do with being able to readjust, to find meaning in the present and being able to recognize where ?balance? can be achieved in each and every moment. I don?t know how else to put into words what I?m trying to say (maybe someone can help me), but when Richie says that Mifune?s character isn?t bad in The Hidden Fortress when compared to everyone else, it kind of reminded me of when I was a kid and I saw the Emperor for the first time. I realized that there was someone who was even more evil than Darth Vader, and that was also the first time I thought that Vader might not be all that bad, especially since he?s Luke?s dad.

    Wow, my ramblings have really gotten away from me here?
    />/>
  3. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    Has anyone here seen Kurosawa?s No Regrets for Our Youth? I had the opportunity to see it the other day. It is, in my opinion, not one of Kurosawa?s best, but it is interesting nonetheless. Moreover, SW fans should find this film especially noteworthy?all I can say is that most of AOTC?s ?forbidden love? scenes and dialog come straight from this film. From the picnic, to Anakin and Padmé rolling around in the meadow, to their chitchat about politics, it seems like many aspects of the Padmé/Anakin storyline were taken right out of No Regrets for Our Youth.

    Someone also asked earlier in this thread about Amidala?s fate. Although I can?t speak to whether she dies or not, if Lucas continues with the storyline from No Regrets for Our Youth, then we may see Padmé stand up to Palpatine?s militaristic regime and subsequently get thrown into prison for her political beliefs. (This could occur after Anakin ?dies? and after the twins are born.) Even though I really don?t see this happening, I wouldn?t put it past Lucas to include something along these lines considering that it would kind of parallel Leia?s own imprisonment in ANH. (This could also be the means by which the twins are split up?while Padmé is in jail, she may possibly ask Obi-Wan to take Luke and Leia to Tatooine to live with Owen and Beru, but Obi-Wan might think better of it and ask their mutual friend, Bail Organa, to take Leia to Alderaan to live with him.)

    One last thing: I was only able to see No Regrets for Our Youth once, so I am trying to recall most of it from memory, but there is one other thing that could happen in SW based on this film. Obi-Wan might drop Luke off with Owen and Beru fairly early in Episode III, then go back to Coruscant to confront Sidious, and subsequently return to Tatooine at the end of the movie. What?s more, the animosity that Owen harbors for Obi-Wan may also come from No Regrets for Our Youth. I?ll have to get the DVD and see it again before I can explain more. Hopefully someone else has seen the film and can elaborate for me.
  4. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    >>>> Ternian also posted a rumour that it is Palpatine, not Obi-Wan who inflicts Anakin's injuries. But perhaps that rumour started here??

    I think Anakin getting his injuries from Palpatine or Obi-Wan could go either way. Drunken Angel, No Regrets for Our Youth, They Who Step on the Tiger?s Tail, The Bad Sleep Well, and of course The Hidden Fortress all certainly point to Anakin getting done in by Palpatine. However, as I said early on in this thread, everyone interested in spoiling themselves silly should watch Hiroshi Inagaki?s Samurai Trilogy, which are film adaptations of Eiji Yoshikawa?s book, Musashi. Some of SW?s characters and story seem to be based on either Yoshikawa?s book or Inagaki?s movies?I can?t decide which is the true inspiration considering that Musashi can clearly be seen on George?s bookshelf in many of the filmed interviews with Lucas, or considering that Toshiro Mifune, who was George?s first choice to play Obi-Wan Kenobi prior to Guinness, plays the lead character, Musashi, in the Samurai Trilogy. (It?s likely that George saw the movies first and read the book afterward.) Anyway, the book and the movies culminate with the legendary swordfight between Musashi Miyamoto (Obi-Wan) and his rival Kojiro Sasaki Ganryu (Anakin/Vader). The following is an excerpt from the book, and while you?re reading it, keep in mind the big gash across the top of Anakin?s head that we caught a glimpse of in ROTJ:


    The wooden sword rose straight into the air. With one great kick, Musashi leapt high, and folding his legs, reduced his six-foot frame to four feet or less.

    ?Y-a-a-ah!? Ganryu?s sword screamed through the space above him. The stroke missed, but the tip of [Ganryu?s sword] cut through Musashi?s headband, which went flying through the air.

    Ganryu mistook it for his opponent?s head, and a smile flitted briefly across his face. The next instant his skull broke like gravel under the blow of Musashi?s sword.

    As Ganryu lay where the sand met the grass, his face betrayed no consciousness of defeat. Blood streamed from his mouth, but his lips formed a smile of triumph.

    ? From Musashi
    />

    ?With the right treatment, he may recover,? Musashi told himself. And he wanted to believe this, wanted to believe that this most valiant of all adversaries would be spared.

    ? From Musashi
    />
    />/>/>/>
  5. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    I posted the following in another thread but thought it might be appropriate here too:

    Speaking to the ?certain points of view? theme in SW, it?s an artsy-fartsy thing that Lucas gets from Akira Kurosawa?s film, Rashomon. I like it, because not only is it so ?Kurosawa,? but when Kenobi says to Luke, ?you?re going to find many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view,? Ben is subtly pointing to one of Luke?s own faults, that of Luke creating his own illusions/delusions based on what he thinks he knows or based on what people tell him. The lesson here is for Luke to see through the illusion, to make up his own mind, but to do so in an objective manner. What?s more, this allusion to Rashomon could have some deeper underpinnings when it comes to Episode III.

    Rashomon is still widely viewed today not only because it is a cinematic masterpiece, both in story and camera work, but also because people like to try and figure out the great Rashomon murder mystery. No one tells the truth in this story except for the priest, and that is why people still, to this day, some 50+ years later, like to debate who actually killed the samurai. We see the samurai?s death over and over from the different viewpoints, we hear people talk about it (the commenting chorus), but we never really know who killed him. We think we know what happened but we can?t be absolutely sure because the characters all have their own sugar-coated viewpoint.

    I mention this because in SW, conspicuously in the OT, we hear everyone talk about ?what happened to Anakin? but we never get a definitive answer?not even from Anakin himself. We get bits and pieces of the story, and we make our own assumptions about what really happened to him. The big payoff in SW3 is that we?re supposed to finally know what happened, but what if Lucas never really ties up just how Anakin is made to wear the Vader suit? What if?in the vain of Rashomon and of the OT?we hear, or are shown, everyone?s conflicting points of view regarding how Anakin ?dies?? I think this would be cool since it would leave SW fans debating for years as to ?Who killed Anakin Skywalker?? and it would introduce new fans to the saga because they might think they?re smart enough to figure it all out. Did Obi-Wan do it? Did the Emperor do it? Was Padmé involved? Or did Anakin kill himself? Maybe I?m hoping for too much, but I have to believe (delude myself) that ?certain points of view? has a deeper meaning for Star Wars.

  6. E CHU TA! Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2000
    star 4
  7. TK327 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2001
    star 4
    I think Anakin getting his injuries from Palpatine or Obi-Wan could go either way. bad radio

    I agree. And I'm with you completely in suggesting a strong influence from the Samurai Trilogy. I would say that the main theme in these films is similar to what we see in Kurosawa's works. If anything, the morality (at least the aspects that can be related to SW) is more directly addressed in the Samurai Trilogy. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I distinctly remember a scene where an older Samurai (= Yoda) explains to Musashi that simply being a powerful warrior is of no consquence unless such power is accompanied by humility and compassion. This scene reminded me of a similar one in Sanshiru Sugata, one we've both posted about in the past. In this scene we also see the wise master explaining to his pupil that simply being powerful will only lead to trouble.

  8. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    >>>> It's been a while since I've seen it, but I distinctly remember a scene where an older Samurai (= Yoda) explains to Musashi that simply being a powerful warrior is of no consquence unless such power is accompanied by humility and compassion.

    I think you?re referring to the old priest, Nikkan, when he says that Musashi was too strong and that Musashi must learn to become weaker. Nikkan also said to Musashi: ?It?s a grave error to think the way of the Samurai consists of nothing but a show of strength.? Obi-Wan should mention that to Anakin?

    Speaking of Obi-Wan, did anyone find it interesting that in AOTC Obi-Wan sounds a lot like Darth Vader? What I referring to are the following lines:


    ? Obi-Wan Kenobi, Attack of the Clones
    ? Darth Vader, The Empire Strikes Back
    />/>/>

    this knowledge brings about the downfall of the hero.

    ?Dan Richie, The Films of Akira Kurosawa
    />
    The Bad Sleep Well, Drunken Angel, and Stray Dog, but I think you can apply this insight to Anakin?s character in SW. I see Anakin becoming a Sith because he feels that this is the only way to protect himself, to protect his family, and to find a way to eliminate Palpatine. In other words, I think Anakin takes the quick and easy path for noble purposes, but by the timeframe of TESB, Anakin starts to realize that his own actions parallel Obi-Wan?s actions from the PT. It?s like a son saying that he wants to grow up to be very different from his father, but in the end, even though he?s tried to be very different, he turns out just like his father. After Empire, I think Anakin stops lying to himself and really comprehends that he has turned out just like Obi-Wan. He realizes that ?warring sides are identical? and accordingly questions the choices he has made, and it is this very uncertainty that causes him to lower his guard.
    />/>/>/>/>/>
  9. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    However, those lines of Obi-Wan's (AotC) and Vader's (ESB) are also very similar to Dooku's (AotC) urging Obi-Wan to join him, so that, together they can defeat the Sith. So, this could be as mundane as lack of imagination in dialog writing in SW (How many times do we see the same old sentence structure?)

    There could be a deeper meaning, as you have suggested, that Anakin is thinking like Obi-Wan by ESB. I find it hard to accept though that
    Anakin starts to realize that his own actions parallel Obi-Wan?s actions from the PT.
    Anakin's actions are completely immoral by the OT; he is a mass murderer and lacks all compassion and respect for LIFE. Perhaps he starts to realize that what he now wants is exactly what Obi-Wan and the Jedi wanted - the end to conflict - and quite different from what Sidious wanted. However, his actions have little to do with Obi-Wan's from the PT.

    Vader is like the son who rebelled against the father and did everything exactly opposite what the father had done, and took completely different roads, but in the end, starts to realize that what his deepest desire is not different from what his father wanted.
  10. TK327 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2001
    star 4
    I think you?re referring to the old priest, Nikkan, when he says that Musashi was too strong and that Musashi must learn to become weaker. Nikkan also said to Musashi: ?It?s a grave error to think the way of the Samurai consists of nothing but a show of strength.? Obi-Wan should mention that to Anakin?

    Yeah, that's the scene I was thinking of. It's been a while...

    I think it's very likely that we will see something along those lines being spoken between Obi-Wan and Anakin. In fact, I'd be surprised if we didn't.


    VADER: When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master.

    BEN: Only a master of evil, Darth.




  11. CieSharp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    I just finished watching Rashomon for the first time, and when I saw that peasant carrying the baby at the very end, with the other fellow watching from behind, his robes flapping in the breeze, I could immediately see in my mind's eye, George Lucas completely transplanting this scene for use as the final scene in Episode 3. Perhaps Uncle Owen carrying baby Luke, with Obi-Wan from behind, his Jedi robes flapping in the breeze.

    Some Star Wars scenes appear to be directly transplanted from Kurosawa movies, as can be seen from Yojimbo, when the enforcers pass by, and Toshiro Mifune lifts one of the floor boards and attempts to peer outside. Just like A New Hope with Han's floor compartments in the Millenium Falcon :D

    Great topic. Special thanks to bad radio for answering another question I had about links between SW and Kurosawa's films.
  12. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    >>>> As a whole, I have to apply Occam?s Razor to in regard to your augment: 1) Vader really does believe that Kenobi is dead and he is glad that Obi-Wan is gone, and 2) Vader is delighted (and surprised) to find out that he has a daughter.

    I finally got around to reading your response in the other thread E CHU TA!, and I thought it best to bring the conversation back here. It helps to know what motivates the characters in SW, and since Kurosawa?s characters are the template for them, I thought this thread to be the most appropriate place to respond.

    To your first point, I still can?t fathom why you believe Vader actually believes that Kenobi is dead and gone. After their confrontation on the Death Star, Vader is clearly confused, i.e., stepping on Obi-Wan?s cloak. This uncertainty, together with the absence of a cadaver and the mystical nature of the Force, can only lead Vader to one simple conclusion: Obi-Wan isn?t dead. Remember that earlier scene with Tarkin and Vader? Tarkin makes the remark that surely Obi-Wan Kenobi is dead, to which Vader replies, ?Don?t underestimate the Force.? Contrast that with what Vader would later say to Tarkin: ?This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Kenobi. It will soon see the end of the Rebellion.? Vader is clearly deluding himself. He wants others to believe that Kenobi is dead, and he himself wants to believe it too. By saying the words, perhaps he thinks that this will somehow make them true, but deep down?in that part of him that is still Anakin?Vader knows that Kenobi isn?t really dead.

    To your second point, I still say that Vader is taken aback when he learns just how deep the rabbit hole goes, and delusion kicks in once again when he says that he will turn Leia. Once more, if he says the words then somehow they might become true.

    >>>> In ESB, Anakin specifically asks Palpatine to violate the ?rule of two.? Yes, Vader feels trapped in his role as an apprentice, but he does have the mettle to make the aforementioned suggestion to Palpatine. I don?t think that Anakin waits until Episode V to purpose this idea simply because: a) he has spent the last 20+ years working up his courage or b) he has spent the entire time warming Palpatine up to the idea of taking a new apprentice.

    I never said that Vader was working up the courage, nor was he trying to warm Palpatine up to the idea of a third Sith. In Empire, he makes the suggestion to Palpatine only as a last resort. It?s clear by Vader?s actions that he didn?t want to take Luke to the Emperor.

    >>>> Yes, Anakin is aware of the fact that Palpatine wants his children dead. That's why he comes up with the ?one of us? ploy. There will be no need to destroy Luke if he becomes a Sith. Anakin knew this in the ESB, and I don?t see why he wouldn?t know this in Episode III.

    Yes, but do you think that Palpatine will want to train two apprentices at the same time, much less a father-son duo? Recall the nature of the Sith: when one Sith thinks he no longer has any use for the other, he will try to take the other out.

    >>>> If Vader has a valid excuse which will stave off Palpatine?s wraith, why would he risk having Luke trained by Obi-Wan? Because Luke has been subject to Obi-wan?s influence in the OT, he will not turn to the Darkside. Vader wouldn?t have this problem if Luke been trained as a Sith from the very beginning. If Anakin was aware that his son were alive, he would suggest that he be raised as a Sith - period.

    I don?t believe Vader thinks that it is a risk. He knows as well as Obi-Wan that, if and when Luke learns to use the Force, this will lead to the Emperor discovering that Luke exists. So Vader assumes that either Obi-Wan will not risk training Luke (which is the case until ANH), or that even if Obi-Wan does train Luke, he won?t get very far in the training. Arrogance plays an important role in Vader?s character. I think he would have let sleeping dogs lie if Luke had never been trained, and I
  13. TK327 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2001
    star 4
    >>>> In ESB, Anakin specifically asks Palpatine to violate the ?rule of two.? Yes, Vader feels trapped in his role as an apprentice, but he does have the mettle to make the aforementioned suggestion to Palpatine. I don?t think that Anakin waits until Episode V to purpose this idea simply because: a) he has spent the last 20+ years working up his courage or b) he has spent the entire time warming Palpatine up to the idea of taking a new apprentice. E CHU TA

    I never said that Vader was working up the courage, nor was he trying to warm Palpatine up to the idea of a third Sith. In Empire, he makes the suggestion to Palpatine only as a last resort. It?s clear by Vader?s actions that he didn?t want to take Luke to the Emperor. bad radio


    Don't dwell on this point too much. I'm almost certain that Lucas had yet to think up the rule of two at the time of writing tESB. This scene will most likely be altered in the ultimate edition of the OT, though. In fact, with JEJ and and Ian McDiarmid still around, Lucas has quite a bit of latitude to play around with existing scenes or add new ones with these two characters. I believe toochilled has hinted that this particular scene has already been redone. I'm quite sure that Ben's 'death' scene in ANH is also being tinkered with. That may only be a special effects touch up though.
  14. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    >>>> Don't dwell on this point too much. I'm almost certain that Lucas had yet to think up the rule of two at the time of writing tESB. This scene will most likely be altered in the ultimate edition of the OT, though.

    I really hope this is not true. That scene has so much going for it now that we have been introduced to the ?rule of two? in the prequels. The fact that there is no dialogue in this scene to cover what Vader is really asking of the Emperor makes one wonder about the psychology of both characters. Why does Vader make such a request? And why does the Emperor go along with it? In light of what we know about Vader?s connection to Luke, coupled with the Sith rule of two, that scene now suggests the ruefulness of a man seen through, mixed with the satisfaction of a man who, his pride in tatters, has nonetheless managed to pull something off.
  15. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    >>>> I just finished watching Rashomon for the first time[?]

    Rashomon is my favorite movie of all time.
  16. TK327 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2001
    star 4
    The fact that there is no dialogue in this scene to cover what Vader is really asking of the Emperor makes one wonder about the psychology of both characters. Why does Vader make such a request? And why does the Emperor go along with it?

    I take your point, bad radio. The scene is much more interesting bacause of what isn't said, assuming that the rule of two is in play. Perhaps the scene was/will be altered simply to show McDiarmid (sp?)as the Emperor for continuity. I still maintain that it was a happy accident for Lucas that this scene was filmed as it was.
  17. HaN___DoLO3 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2003
    star 4
    If Vader has a valid excuse which will stave off Palpatine?s wraith, why would he risk having Luke trained by Obi-Wan?

    Vader thinks Obi-Wan is a failure as a master. Why wouldn't he want Obi-Wan to train Luke?

    "...his failure is complete."

    If I was Vader, and I wanted Luke to join me as a Darksider, I'd like for him to be trained by the man who I believe helped me turn to the Darkside (Obi).

    TK327: The scene is much more interesting bacause of what isn't said, assuming that the rule of two is in play.

    Good point TK , that also makes me think of another thing that isn't said...why the Emperor is only now finding out about Luke?

    Every time I watch that scene that's my only question.

    The answer I give myself is Vader has been keeping Luke a secret and he's been trying to get to Luke first (that's obvious). But once the Emperor finds out about Luke, Vader's plans must change. IMO he is asking the Emperor to break the Rule of 2. But the Emperor knows better, he wants Luke to himself.

    So Vader has pulled something off, he's allowed Luke to live a bit longer, despite the Emperor now knowing he exists.

    Now all Vader has to do is turn him before the Emperor. But I think that was never his intention...
  18. TK327 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2001
    star 4
    That is a good question HaN DoLO3. And it's one Lucas may answer with additional dialogue in tESB. Although, I'm with bad radio in hoping there will be minimal tinkering with the OT. Your suggestion seems reasonable. :)
  19. HaN___DoLO3 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2003
    star 4
    I hope there isn't any tinkering to dialogue in the OT as well.

    As for special effects...I hope there's massive tinkering. ;)
  20. TOD-UK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2002
    star 3
    OMG..this is the best thread on any SW topic i have ever read. i was aware that GL was influenced by kurosawa, but never to what degree.

    to be honest after ep I&II i wasnt really lookin forward to III but if have the scenes mentioned hear have any bearing then it could easily be better that ESB.

    badradio - you have my deepest thanks for this...it's goin in my faves
  21. TK327 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2001
    star 4
    Another possible spoiler from Ternian:

    Bounty Hunters will be a new major force. A controlled group set up to attack systems. Although, I have been unable to confirm WHO they are suppose to attack. The new designs for these Bounty Hunters are suppose to be mind-boggling. Apparently, Palpatine will order systems to be attacked to force them into the Empire. Palpatine demands payment for his ' personal troops' use. Money paid for Protection will play an important part in the protecting systems from attacks.

    The bit about protection money reminds me of Yojimbo mixed in with a bit of The Seven Samurai. Perhaps Anakin will be the leader of Palpatine's 'personal troops'. Anakin and his troops as ronin and the bounty hunters as bandits?
  22. HaN___DoLO3 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2003
    star 4
    That wouldn't be bad TK. :)

    More fodder for Anakin being extremely loyal to Palpatine and perhaps his connection and/or willingness to use bounty hunters in ESB.

    Ternian's "spoilers" still seem more like speculation at this point, but this would still be a cool idea.

    And hey, if it's a Kurosawa influence, who's to say GL won't use it. ;)

    Edit: Or am I missing the point of bandits here TK ?[face_plain]
    Would Anakin and his troops, be fighting these bandits? Either way I'm on board... :D
  23. TK327 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2001
    star 4
    Right now, I'm guessing that Anakin will be out of the order and under Palpatine's employ for much of the film. Although I admit that all the pieces don't fit neatly, I'm suggesting that Anakin could be leading troopers (sporting Vaderesque helmets ;) ) who are hired out by palpatine to 'protect' those reluctant to join the Empire from a bounty hunter 'force' (= bandits).
  24. HaN___DoLO3 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2003
    star 4
    Now I understand a bit better TK. :)

    Palpatine could praise Anakin, as a protector of the Senate and the Empire/Republic.

    This could make Anakin's transition to a hero/known Imperial much smoother.

    But the problem lies with not many people knowing Anakin=Vader.

    You're right, some of it doesn't fit neatly, but George could probably make it work. ;)
  25. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    Okay, this is not exactly EIII related, but does anyone see how throughout the SW saga, ESPECIALLY with the PT, Lucas has pulled "Rashomons" on us continuously? If you just take a look around on these boards, you will see so many different interpretations of the same characters, the same scenes, the same dialogue. For example, take the elevator scene at the beginning of AotC. Many people feel that it shows a deep friendship between Anakin and Obi-Wan. But plenty others think it's just a strained conversation. And then, while most people think Anakin is the "Chosen One", many feel that it is Luke. There are plenty more examples.

    I wonder if this is deliberate; whether Lucas is exploring the subjective nature of truth a la "Rashomon." Years after EIII, will we still debate about SW with polar views? Can the "truth" behind the saga be written in black and white? I have a feeling that EIII will see the height of this "different" versions of truth. If so, Lucas is going to leave a few vital questions unanswered.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.