Jedi Sectarianism

Hello,

I can't recall the exact quote, but I believe that one of the major themes of the upcoming Legacy of the Force era will be the internal Jedi debate about the nature of the force, and their role in galactic affairs. This has already been hinted at in the squabbles in Dark Nest: The Joiner King, with the heated discussion led mainly by the sides of Kyp Durron vs. Corran Horn.

I think it would be very interesting to witness Jedi Sectarianism. Star Wars often has analogies for real life current affairs and history, so it would be very intriguing if the Expanded Universe went down the path of Sectarianism.

There is the broad label of 'Christian', but this can encompass many different forms of the religion, ie: Catholicism, Baptists, Methodists, Anglicans, etc...

Same with Islam - there are Shi'ite, Sunni, then there are forms of teaching, such as the Wahhabi school of thought.

I think it would be very interesting if this would occur within the Jedi. Sure, there are different branches of Force teachings, such as the Potentium, Sith, Fallanassi, Jenasaari, etc... but it would be fascinating if there were actual subsets of the Jedi order, and I believe that we are starting to witness this formation.

Perhaps the future of the Jedi council could reflect this, with each Master on the council representing a certain school of thought. You could have an Academy on one planet for example, led by Jacen that espouses his teachings, one for Corran, Kyp, Luke, etc...

And future storyline conflicts could evolve not into the traditional Hegelian view of Jedi vs. Sith, but different sects of the Jedi pitted against one another. Not necessarily violent or warlike, but perhaps philisophical, etc...

Thoughts?

 

Well, I don't think the council would have a different representitive from each Jedi sect. The one strongest reason I disagree with this is because they would get nothing done. Like the religions, each has its own ideas on interperting events and how to handle them. The coucil would be lock in debate for months on one matter that would be done by mid-debate.

No, if the Jedi were to splinter, they would be seperate councils. Personally this is how I would envision the conflict to end.


High Jedi Council, led by Luke, much like the High Council of old.

Jedi Guardians- Jedi who think thier first priority is the GFFA. They are a branch of the whole Jedi Order, have thier own council and do the GFFA's bidding.

Jedi Philosophers- Believe their only duty is to the Force. They choose to fight for the GFFA when they know it is not a corrupt battle being fought.


This would all be one Order, but with different groups. I think it would work. The High Council could be made up of both sects, or neutral parties.

Just my thought anyway.

 

The only problem I see with seperate councils is that they sort of cancel each other out, dont they? For example, if Luke's council says "Hey we're gonna do Plan A", and Kyp or Jacen's council (I assume they wouldnt be on Luke's) say "No, we're going with Plan B", then it's sort of pointless. I think if they do that, they'll be the same as they are now, they'll just be more officially organized.

 

Interesting.

I thought that they might end the debate regarding Jedi marriage by instituting different orders, rather like third-order Franciscans are allowed to marry. You could have Jedi knights, who can marry if they choose, but they can only ascend to the rank of Master if they remain celibate, or something like that.

 

The only problem I see with seperate councils is that they sort of cancel each other out, dont they? For example, if Luke's council says "Hey we're gonna do Plan A", and Kyp or Jacen's council (I assume they wouldnt be on Luke's) say "No, we're going with Plan B", then it's sort of pointless. I think if they do that, they'll be the same as they are now, they'll just be more officially organized.

Also, not allowing Knights who are married to become Masters probably wouldnt fly, since the head Master is married, and wouldnt be a good example. I doubt people would follow his lead if he said "Ok, seriously, I'm the only that can be married. It's my rules, and you have to play by them."

 

Yeah, a good many masters are married. No I think the NJO will end that debate with just telling everyone to do what they feel is right.

 

Of course they could let the married Masters be as they are and only make the demand of staying unmarried on new Masters, so they could have a transitional period.

 

Yeah, but ain't that a tad hipocritical?

 

Perhaps hypocritical, but it would be a compromise. It´s nothing extraordinary as such; here in Earth different churches have made the same kind of changes. When the catholic church started to enforce clerical celibacy and non-marriage during the gregorian reformation, the change eventually took centuries to be complete in all of latin Europe. The old cadre would keep their privilege but eventually the order would change to a more... let´s say monastic one.

 

Good point, but other than the "he did it so we should be allowed to too" excuse, there's also the fact that no matter how you look at it, the restriction on relationships was part of the downfall of the Old Order. I don't think Luke would make that mistake.

Again, the NJO Jedi marriage issuse should be about thier personal preference. Wethere they wanna marry, or not marry, however they see thmesleves serving the Force.

 

Of course it will be...

Its only been the same rehashed theme used in the last 15 or so novels with little or no progress. Why would they give that plot crutch up now??

 

Again, the NJO Jedi marriage issuse should be about thier personal preference. Wethere they wanna marry, or not marry, however they see thmesleves serving the Force.

I agree to that, but that situation survives only as long as it is the view of the majority of the Jedi. In the future the majority may come to believe that the Jedi should commit themselves more fully to the order and abstain of having families - which itself doesn´t have to mean any kind of emotional coldness itself - and then the minority would either have to adapt, make aforementioned kind of compromise, stop being Jedi or form a splinter group.

 

Le_Sammler:
Very nice! Great idea!

 

Sectarianism... or schism?

The Jedi have, I think, largely held together through history, since people seem reluctant to abandon the idea or ideal of being Jedi, and being part of the order; there have been AFAIK no major "Light side" schisms, and the ability of the Council to discipline people like Djinn Altis seems non-existent. I'm not sure how far Ulic counts, but Allya, exiled to Dathomir, is the only person I can think of who's effectively punished as a heretic without falling to the Dark Side...

There are no real "denominational" monikers - no Orthodox and Reformed; the nearest thing we get is "Corellian Jedi", which you could compare to historical Christian usages of geographical indicators in doctrinal disputes, like "Greek" or "Irish" (which tend to fall at least slightly short of accusations of outright heresy)...

But that doesn't mean we won't get something interesting - and potentially disastrous - happening in the post-NJO era. There's no clear sense of orthodoxy any more, and Jacen is already a heresiarch-in-waiting...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Good thoughts, Thrawn McEwok.

Yes, perhaps a Schism instead...

Perhaps a good analogy is the Reformation... Catholic Church vs. Protestantism. Or, another example, Catholicism vs. Eastern Orthodox Church.

Perhaps the Jedi could split into the following divisions:

The Jedi led by Jacen - Potentium view of the Force, no Light and Dark Side. They could serve the interests of the Jedi, and serve the Galaxy as they see fit.

The Jedi led by Luke - Traditional view of the Force... there IS a Light and Dark Side. They could serve the Galactic Alliance, ala the Old Jedi Order.

 

Any Jedi who says that the Force has no dark side is just making an excuse for himself to wield ultimate powers, even if it draws upon evil, because it's OK; it's not actually evil.

Reminds me of some famous villains. "There is no such thing as good or evil: only power, and those who are too weak to use it."

 

What we need is some prequel-era Jedi to come in and start a faction that does things old school.

Hmmmm...

Like Master Windu.

I never saw a body. And he'd only be a hundred.

What I wouldn't give to have him return and say to Luke, "Take a seat, young Skywalker."

 

Possibly. Or perhaps the Lightside/Darkside Jedi have created for themselves these imaginary concepts to define the Force to use as an external mechanism to govern internal decision making. Perhaps a Potentium Jedi just accepts that the responsibility for right and wrong actions falls squarely on themselves not with the Force.

You see, it's simply a matter of POV. (No matter what the RPG sourcebooks tell us. )

 

Potentium view of the Force, no Light and Dark Side
HellOOO?
That's having all the fun without paying the price. And everything ahs a price even in the GFFA. Or maybe especially there. If you want ultimate power, pay the price! Nothing's free. I think something like that would turn the whole foce-thing tupsy-turvy. *dagegen!*
And didn't somebody say once: You can't have everything?

 

I always thought it was: "You can't always get what you want..."

 

Not quite. When the decision to change was made, the majority of them refrained from further physical intimacy with their wives (although there were a few stubborn hold-outs here and there).

 

*blinks*

Yes, the Potentium. Forgot about that...

Not Dark vs. Light but Dualist vs. Relativist... yes, yes, I could see that...

After all, just look at the boards.

Then again, what the characters - and the fanboys - would do in that situation might take some people by surprise...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

"There is no such thing as good or evil: only power, and those who are too weak to use it."

Ah, Kudzu, I can't put my finger on the speaker! It's on the tip of my tounge, but I can't get it. For some reason I wanna say Apocalypse from X-Men, but I have a feeling it's Star Wars. Damn....

 

Don't Vergere and Jacen Solo make up a sect of their own independent of both Kyp Durron's unorthodox view and Luke Skywalker's more traditional interpretation of the Force and the Jedi involvement in galactic affiars?

<[-]> Saber

 

Well Vergere dies in the NJO, so she isn't creating many Jedi sects. But she did give Jacan many of the beliefs he holds true.