ST JJ Abrams directing Episode IX Discussion

No, Rey being special is not a twist, we know she's special since TFA. So yes she was born special. What i mean is that the twist is...taht there's no twist. Everybody expects SW to have a family twist. And just because of TESB, and it's actually the only movie with a real shocker of a twist. And it doesn't mean twist for the sake of it, just how a lot of fans feel since most of them expected TESB again...from what i understand it was important for Rian Johnson to make Rey a "nobody", to give his movie some sort of "working class galactic hero" feeling haha. Rey is no jedi royalty or something. I'm not talking in-universe (as you said the skywalkers is the only known "jedi family") but as the audience perceive Star Wars.

Was TFA trying to create a false impression? Well isn't it the purpose pf a movie to create mysteries? Would you blame a director to make you doubt if X or Y is the murderer or not? Or what is Z's intentions? Whatever JJs intentions were, there is no "undoing" things by making her unrelated to special people in TLJ. The message is clear "wow look at that girl, she's so powerful, she must come from a special family", and the answer is "no, she's not special in that sense, she's special because of who she is and what she can become". That's some political statement yes. I like it. Ben is the spoiled "aristocrat", Rey is the "power to the people" girl. Just my opinion.

What matters is that, whether you like the story or not, nothing in TLJ contradicts what happens in TFA. Whether JJ created a hollow mystery bow or not, what we see in the movie doesn't contradict her parents being "nobodies". It's just that Rey is the new ''champion of the light".

 

Why did they need to tell us something like that when the PT already told us rando’s can be Jedi?

 

Still waiting for a Jawa Jedi. I want to see that SO BAD!

 

I suppose anyone can -in theory- learn the ways of the Force, just like anyone can learn to play violin.In this example not everyone will succeed in mastering this instrument, and a lot of people won't probably be able to play correctly a good-sounding note (it's a difficult instrument). Some will be more gifted than others. Some others will have to try harder but will eventually become better at it, others not. Same thing for Jedi..not everyone will be able to commit to it, of be gifted enough, but they're still part of the force. And just like someone who doesn't play violin can still enjoy the sound of the instrument, and even try to strike a string, i think anyone can more or less tap into the Force, even in a very low, almost non-effective way (call it "luck" or something...that was actually how it was explained in the SW RPG guidebook in the 80s now that i think of it haha)

Regarding past SW movies, it's true that it never said that "random" people can't be Jedi. In the PT there are a lot of non-skywalkers Jedi to prove it. BUT when it comes to the main narravtive, from the point of view of the audience, because of the whole story, because of the former EU, because of many things, the Skywalkers have been a central piece of the SW universe. Would Rey have been a skywalker too it would have only reinforced this impression. Rey being from a "nobody" family is re-affirming the principles of SW, but it's a need one. The message is clear, Ben is a Skywalker but don't deserve it, Rey is not but she's spiritually Luke's heir and that's what matters.

 

Agree. I would say the theme of TLJ was pretty clear. It is not that one can be a Jedi without being a Skywalker. But rather that a SW saga movie can be lead by a non-Skywalker Jedi. And the dynamic of "the offspring of the previous Skywalker generation will come and clean the mess of the corrupted side of the family" is being moved to "the Force will always find an individual who balance what other has imbalanced".

This is something JJ claimed to love about ANH and this is, among others, is one of the main reasons why expecting him to revert what TLJ does makes little sense IMO.

 

And that's why the ST might be too meta for it's own good. Yes the Skywalker's have been the focus of the saga films and that one family is connected to many of the previously told EU Star Wars stories so I get why the audience would be left with the incorrect perception that only a Skywalker can be the star of the show.

However in-universe that theory has never existed. So to make Rey and rando it seems like the writers are doing that for meta reasons. They're not trying to correct a problem that exists in-universe. They're trying to correct a problem the audience has with the franchise. The viewing audience, (not the in-universe people) think all things are related to the Skywalkers therefore we have to make Rey a rando to prove that's not true, even though in-universe it's never been true. As far as I know, there's never been a moment in the Star Wars franchise where the widely held belief among the characters in the galaxy is that you have to be a Skywalker to be the Force sensitive hero.

It would be one thing if for the last forty years literally the only characters that possessed the Force were Skywalkers and then Rey Random shows up and she's the first non-Skywalker to possess the Force. That would be huge! That would be an in-universe sea change. Everybody who encountered Rey or heard of Rey would be blown away with the fact that this rando has the Force. That would be an in-universe game changer. But that's not the case. So again Rey's randomness is largely being done for the audiences sake. If that's the case maybe they should have Rey break the forth wall and start talking directly to the camera like Ferris Bueller. Oooooohhhh yeah!

 

Some people are missing the point. Of course you don't have to be a Skywalker to be a Jedi (that was obvious from the beginning i.e. Obi-Wan Kenobi et al). The argument is that the Hero of each Saga Trilogy should be a Skywalker. Of course, a Skywalker doesn't always have to be a Hero (Anakin/Vader). We are just not used to seeing the Skywalker, of any given Trilogy, entering the first Act as a Darksider (Kylo Ren). Does that make any sense.

 

Anyone here detecting a little haterade from Colin? Someone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon.

 

"the film will add depth and character without compromising the core tenets of a beloved franchise"

That's coming from someone who did a shameless remake of Jurassic Park.

 

Wow. Now that’s what I call sour grapes.

 

Yup. As I've said before. I play guitar. So does Eddie Van Halen. I'm not QUITE as good as Eddie, and could probably never be. But I do play guitar.

 

I don't remember Colin claiming how 'bold' and 'subversive' he was being while directing his movies. He also didn't fixate on one character over another; he gave all the visible characters a chance to display their traits and progress the story.

P.S. to no one in particular, I am interested in this BLOODSTINGER series. I use to love editing clips as a kid.

 

I'm still chuckling at that "Jawa Jedi" crack. I thought I'd heard it all.

 

Colin called The Book of Henry "fiercely original" and "aggressively original" though. Also, I don't recall TLJ fixating on one character, it has a lot of characters and it did a surprisingly good job in giving each of them their moments, especially on the third act.

 

While TLJ is far from perfect, a critique from CT taking into accoubt his resume, is almost funny.

 

The audience is different now and I think that accounts for a lot of SW's current troubles including Solo. WE know there have been non Skywalker Jedi and female Jedi but those millions of fans out there don't know it. The main theme of this trilogy being new and also random has been blurred by lack of knowledge. This too is what happens when you wait 30 years to do something.

 

I dunno... maybe I'm misreading all these posts, but it feels like there's a developing argument to dumb down Star Wars (not that it's hugely sophisticated in the first place), in order to satisfy an audience that doesn't want to invest anything in a movie. I have to say that I'd rather have a smaller Star Wars market than reduce Star Wars to Marvel with laser swords. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Marvel movies well enough. But they are paper-thin.

 

Star Wars has always been space fairy tales meant for 12 year olds. Theres no need to try to turn them into niche movies meant to be enjoyed by a small segment of the population. There are a lot of movies I watch for deep thought and reflection. Star Wars doesnt need to be among them. Its escapist fun.

 

One thing I always loved about SW is the way one can enjoy the movies as fun popcorn flicks or pour over and analyze them.

Not sure about the anthology movies, but I do think TPTB are trying to honor that traditon with the ST. I think JJ did a great job with TFA. I feel that RJ sacrificed surface coherence for mets and sumbolism in TLJ, though.

 

Re: the bold text, but millions of people in the GA saw the PT which was rife with non Skywalker Jedi and TLJ directly references the PT. Luke specifically references the Jedi in the PT who were overwhelmingly not Skywalkers, so general audiences and hardcore fans alike should know that it's nothing new for Jedi to be unrelated to the Skywalker family.

Therefore it wouldn't make sense if JJ and RJ thought, "yeah know what? I bet the average movie goer forgot that there were a ton of unrelated Jedi in the prequels even though we reference them in TLJ. Let's make a trilogy where the main point is that you don't have to be a Skywalker to be a Jedi."

I guess the real new idea is that they suggested that Rey might be related but then they turned around and led us to believe that she's not. That's new. Her randomness is not new. Were Obi-Wan Kenobi's parents famous Jedi? What about Yoda's? How about Mace Windu's?

Also if the GA was so forgetful that they completely forgot about all the rando Jedi in the PT we have TFA and TLJ straight up telling the audience that Luke was training a bunch of rando new students which obviously tells us that you don't have to be a Skywalker to be a Jedi. We don't need Rey Random to make that point. That would be redundant.

I just don't know how JJ could continue the idea that Rey is rando and that her being a rando makes her story unique. He would have to ignore the entire history of the Jedi and ask the audience to do the same thing.

I can already hear people saying, "oh but making Rey a Luke 2.0 is more unique?" And yeah I would. The overwhelming majority of Jedi are rando's. Rey Skywalker would uniquely make her the only daughter of the legendary Luke Skywalker and granddaughter of Darth Vader in the entire galaxy. That's pretty damn unique.

 

Maybe they were thinking the younglings today, the future of the franchise, would not get those facts you spelled out above? I don't understand the idea they have either. One of the reasons my interest in the ST characters is limited.

 

And that is why there’s no “anyone can be a Jedi!” message. In the GFFA, that’s the norm.

Rey’s parentage was decided before JJ came aboard. Rey was George’s character - the protag of his proposed treatments. And George has said multiple times that the Saga is about generations and families and their conflicts.

....and then immediately invited us to question the truth of Kylo’s perceptions. Remember what Kylo saw re the bedroom incident? Foreshadowing

Which is why Rey being random wouldn’t be “fundamental” to the ST’s story. And she isn’t.

TPTB don’t ignore movie canon on the off-chance some in the audience need a refresher.

He won’t.

In fact, I think that last-minute changes were made to TFA because originally the reveal was at the end of TFA.

There’s a reason for the VERY extensive Rey/Luke mirroring/parallels...

 

It is not about being unique. That is the key issue. You don't have to be unique, Rey is randomly chosen by the Force to counter the darkness that is the grankid of the previous individual that was chosen.

Or are we going to have one single family saving the galaxy each time? Yes, there are non-Skywalker Jedi, we all know that. Yet their importance pales in comparisson to what the Skywalkers have done in three generations.

@JoJoPenelli what is the point of keep saying things pretending pass them as facts when they are just what you would like them to be? When has it been confirmed Rey is what Lucas wanted her to be? When has it been said the parentage reveal was originally revealed at the end of TFA?