ST John Boyega (Finn) in Episode VII [v 2.0 Read Opening Post BEFORE Posting]

Finn was inconsistent in some ways, that I agree with you on, but I believe it was a flaw of storytelling in TFA rather than purposeful intent to make him a plot device. A big part of his inconsistency (combat ability) could have been resolved with two small adjustments:

1) during the scene where Phasma is reviewing Finn's file with Kylo, insert some dialogue about him being in the top 1% of troopers based on ability, intelligence, etc and how his potential was hampered by an empathy for others which would not go away. That was clear in the novelization and it should have been addressed in the movie. That right there would resolve the ambiguity over exactly why Finn defected - not because he was doubts his skills, but because he doubts his ability to kill for morally bankrupt reasons, as is the FO's MO. 2) Swap TR8R for Phasma in the fight on Takodano and leave it at a stalemate. Not only would it improve Phasma but it would lay a better foundation for a good rematch in later movies.

Again, I agree that his motivations are often shakier than I'd prefer but I don't believe that was done purposely. Plus, it's not even an objective opinion sense there are many who don't see those inconsistencies. I'm willing to see if his development in VIII clarifies some of the murkiness I personally saw in TFA.

As for his job being to make others shine - there are so many ways for LF/Disney to allow their characters to shine without relegating the co-lead of this trilogy for that purpose. They spent nearly a year casting Finn, there's no way they put that kind of thought and investment into a solely expository character. Agree to disagree on that, I guess.

But if Finn had no melee ability then Kylo would have ended him in three seconds flat. That, or Finn would have sheared his own limbs off defending Kylo's blows. If Finn was meant to be viewed as having anything less than at least competent melee ability then he never should have landed a blow (lucky or not) on him, that would be extremely poor storytelling.

Good points...people are certainly free to like/dislike whomever they want but it's interesting how the bar of scrutiny is significantly raised for some characters as opposed to others...

 

Star wars is more than just a movie or set of movies. It is an entire universe.

If you really want to know how he got off Jakku, there is a book. But other than that in the movie the whole point was "oh snap he is alive". It was a surprise for both us and Finn/BB-8/Rey.
They might explore the republics relationship with the resistance more in the next films since I don't believe it was completely wiped out. But if you want to know what it was like before the movie...there are books. If you want to know more about Finn before the movie, there is a book. I do not see those things as essential to the plot but information that some people may want to know.

 

Agree to disagree

 

Beardwalker , trying to substitute holes in the story with supplementary material (that a lot of people aren't going to read) is just bad writing. We can agree that Finn's motivation for leaving is important and shouldn't be left up to interpretation, right? It's the basic building block of his whole arc, and yet it falls a part easily, simply meaning that (to either the writers or the directors) it wasn't important. If it were important, then why didn't they take 5-10 minutes to include what Finn was like before his first deployment. Perhaps a scene of him showing basic camaraderie with the Stormtrooper who was shot? But they didn't, because it's (apparently) unimportant. If Finn is as important (character wise) as you claim, don't you think they should have placed more care into his overall defection?

Lord Farnsworth When it comes to Rey's character, there really isn't any need to sit and speculate on why she does/doesn't do something. That's spelled out rather simply. She's waiting for her family, everything she is/wants is driven from that one want. Finn is all over the place. He states he doesn't want to kill, then he goes on killing. He has a stromtrooper background, and yet he is easily a terrible fighter. His personality doesn't make much sense with his background either. Finn is literally whatever the narrative needs him to be. Nothing wrong with that, of course, he does that very well.

Rhyoth Courage certainly is courage, however doing something good for bad reasons isn't something worth celebrating. I've already gone over Finn's disturbing relationship with Rey. He refuses to let go of her hand (even when she tells him not to). Asking if she has a boyfriend (which he had no right to do). And then placing himself and other people in danger just because he has a crush on her? I don't find that sweet or endearing, I find it disturbing that he would go to such lengths (so much to place OTHER people in danger) just to fulfil his obsession with her.

As for Finn's fight with Kylo Ren, we can simply chalk that up to Kylo's own arrogance (much like Phasma's) Finn being a clown is what caused them to underestimate him and allow the plot to move forward.

Now, as for him standing up for the villagers. There were things they could have done that showed Finn trying to protect them, that didn't involve him standing around and not firing (passive resistance). He could have attempted to talk one/some of his fellow troopers out of firing, they could have written a scene where Finn shows kindness towards one of the villagers. Something simple like that. We can interpret Finn not firing as him "protecting" them...or simply interpret it as him not having the stones to do the job, and with Finn's constant shrieking, screaming, and overall running away, the latter is more inline with his character.

AhsokaSolo a character can be both the plot device and the everyman, the two are not mutually exclusive. And there really wasn't much care placed in the character if his defection was done so poorly. Unlike with Rey we're not questioning her motivations, we're not sitting there, thinking she'll turn around when the going gets tough like with Finn. Finn may very well stick with the Resistance and show them his mettle, but based off of what we've seen, he's far more likely to turn tail and abandon everything...unless of course there's a girl around he wishes to be possessive of.

 

TFAFan ~ you missed his development. That's okay, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there. No Finn is not more likely to turn and abandon the resistance. He believes in their cause, he was simply shown in the beginning thinking their cause is hopeless. He came back to help them at first not because of Rey, but because of the Hosnian System's destruction. He ran from the FO because he doesn't believe in what they fight for. That couldn't have been more clearly spelled out.

 

TFAFan
He says he doesn't want to kill FOR THEM. And I think it is safe to assume you are just looking for any angle that could try and twist any situation into making Finn look bad. You do realize Rey was in the forest because she was running away when things "got tough" when the lightsaber called for her?

 

These kinds of points makes it really hard to take the rest of your arguments seriously.

 

Racial anxiety. People grow up being bombarded with negative images of black people (males in particular) from all sides. Seeing a black man in a heroic light is enough for people to shut down the logic centers in their brains. This is how you have people saying stuff like "lol janitor" or being so hellbent on seeing him as a coward and a liar. Watch the news for a week and you'll likely come away thinking that black people are horrible people with a horrible culture and no history to speak of. Finn's lies are all very understandable to the common person, yet he's viewed as this selfish, panty sniffing clown. Whatever accomplishments finn makes, such as mastering a turret on the falcon while shooting down two tie fighters, are attributed to other characters. The second TIE fighter kill was an example of absolute team work between he and Rey, yet i've had people tell me that it was rey's flying that allowed him to shoot the first TIE fighter as well. (this is actually very familiar to anyone who studies history from an unedited, non-eurocentric perspective.) Finn stormed SKB all in the name of trying to bang rey. It wasn't because he's a true friend and won't just peace out after seeing her get snatched up by kylo ren.You can see this same behavior in regards to criminal behavior in our society. When an arab/non white person shoots up a mall, he/she is a terrorist. When a white man walks into a school and blows away a bunch of babies, he's "mentally disturbed". Its really not that surprising to see certain people's reaction to finn. We live in a society that tells you to hate and fear black people, black people are also affected by this. This is also why when you see black people who declare a love for their people and their African heritage, its viewed as "racist". (What?) Han solo is a known scoundrel and an outlaw. In fact, he's one of the most beloved characters because of this. Meanwhile, Finn goes along with rey's assumption that he's a resistance fighter because he's ashamed of his past as a storm trooper, and he's "a disgusting liar". He reveals himself and releases Poe, BEFORE he knew Poe was a pilot, yet "he only freed poe because he needed a way off the Finalizer". Han asks what his job was "WHEN YOU WERE STATIONED HERE". When finn tells him he was in sanitation, "oh lololol he was a janitor". Everything you've seen about the character is now overridden by ONE line about what he did while stationed on SKB. Ahh back to the comfort zone where black people are not main heroes in a star wars movie, but are janitors. Yes, certain people are just trolling and/or are flat out racist, but your average viewer is simply dealing with the racial anxieties that come with being born and raised in western culture.

 

Now, I'm not going to continue, as for Pro Scoundrel 's request, however I find this entirely ridiculous. So...because I point out flaws in the character's design, suddenly I'm racist? Really? So, I guess all the people who were disturbed by Anakin's actions just hate white people, right?

 

Who called you a racist?

And lets be clear. You think that Finn, a guy who has no training in the force or saber combat, a guy who's already had an unsuccessful fight while using a saber, stood up to a force prodigy and former protege of Luke Skywalker.......you think he stood up to kylo ren......for some booty. Sorry, anyone would suspect that you have ulterior motives to your line of "logic", because that is plain ridiculous.

 

I haven't even had any in a long time. Is it really good now?

 

Wow. I step out the thread for a while and come back to find this?

Finn isn't perfect. He never will be, because no one will be completely satisfied by him. I bet even after in VIII and IX when we see him grow and develop as a character, or as John himself said, Finn's journey of going from Peter Parker to Spider-Man, the criticism will continue rolling on in. And even if in TFA he beat the stormtrooper and fought a little longer with Ren, he would still get criticized. Hell, even Rey gets criticized, and she's the most popular TFA character by far.

We all need to stop, step back, take some deep breaths, and..



Beardwalker I don't know how you found this gif, but thanks, it works every time.

 

To me I believe this trilogy will be about combining both the male and female energies which both sexes share, but is out of balance. Too much of any one thing is not good, and I do believe that Boyega and Ridley showed that as characters. She was strong, but she was even better with him. It's recognizing that one side is no better than the other, but all sides are needed in order to have an understanding of the of the force.

 

That's one of those movies you have to watch every time it's on.

 

Its like "Dazed and Confused".

 

I've never watched the breakfast club. *shrugs*