CT Luke FORCE CHOKES Jabba's Guards!!

I like this idea. Since Leia chokes Jabba not too long after this, it could be seen as foreshadowing for when Luke finds out (and later tells her) she's a Skywalker too.

I don't think the Force choke itself is something we should take too seriously as a dark side power. Wasn't it just the Jedi Knight games that made that distinction, then the EU ran with it? In the films, I think it makes sense that Luke is able to use such powers to briefly defend himself (notice he gives the guards a chance to let him through, and he doesn't kill them) without becoming evil. I also like Aaronaman's idea that Luke embodies a new form of Jedi that isn't dogmatically afraid of 'dark side' powers. Yoda really screwed the pooch by essentially telling Anakin that trying to save his wife, or even loving her, would be evil. Luke has a more balanced approach.

 

Trying to save his wife, or even loving her was evil? It went against the Jedi code but can't be deemed as 'evil'. That's preposterous.

 

Yoda is pretty clear that attachment leads to the dark side and trying to stop death is unnatural and leads that way too. To the PT Jedi, dark side and evil are synonymous.

 

If strangling pig-men is wrong then I don't wanna be right!

The PT Jedi are a pack of wet blanket jackals dressed in stanky robes, who cares what they think?

 

Luke was having a bad case of the "Mondays".

 

I never noticed that before!

 

I never thought he killed the guards, only because he never held the chokes for very long. Remember, Vader was much stronger than Luke, and he needed several seconds to choke a guy to death. Even if Luke was close to Vader's level by ROTJ, he only held the chokes for a few seconds, not nearly long enough to kill the guards. I agree that they were either stunned momentarily or unconscious.

 

I always thought Luke was a Grey Jedi then a standard Light Jedi like his masters Yoda and Obi-Wan.

 

this

 

I'm pretty sure Luke didn't know about that, he probably thought it was allowed by the Jedi. And I'm pretty certain that all the rules were destroyed by the Empire in ROTS.

 

In ANH, we see the first use of Force Choke and Jedi Mind Trick; Luke preforms both in Jabba's Palace. It is clearly done to represent two choice paths for Luke and to show just how powerful he has become.

Secondly, at the end of ETSB, Luke is very angry with Obi Wan for lying to him. His father wasn't dead. Yoda and Obi were pretty much tricking him into killing his own father.

The use of Force Choke is clearly done to represent a growing darkness in Luke.

 

Wrong. He did think about these things, hence why it's being discussed now. Events of ESB + Luke's black outfit, complete with hood + Force Choke (trademark of Darth Vader) = major plot point of ROTJ. Will Luke turn to the Dark Side or not?

 

Yep. It's an established fact that GL deliberately set out to make Luke look and behave Vader-like in ROTJ, to make us unsure of the outcome.





- I hate you!!!
- Much anger in him - like his father.
/LM

 

To me, that whole scheme of Luke going dark has no sense.
In previous entry, TESB, Luke rejects the dark side offered to him by Vader and jumps to his death. He chose death instead of the dark side.
We never got to see the events that pushed Luke towards the dark side, if there are any. There is nothing in episodes 4 and 5 that would give us a clue that Luke could even turn dark.
It's just... there. So his choking of those Gamorreans seams to be a what-why moment.

 

There was a great amount of pain and despair in that scene when he jumped.

 

There's also the mechanical hand that warns Luke that he's becoming like his father.
And don't forget the cave! His vision in the cave showed him where he would end up if he continued down the path of fear and anger. He brought those emotions into the cave, which is why he experienced that encounter - and they had not left him when Vader revealed the truth. Quite the contrary. That revelation only magnified his emotions.





- What has that got to do with anything?
- Only what you take with you.
/LM

 

Well said.
Also the prequels certainly show why at least The Emperor was so confident Luke would turn, this aspect of ROTJ is enhanced by the events of the prequels IMO. Of course we know Luke would never turn, but I can imagine someone watching in the order eps 1 through 6 would definitely be worried when Luke finally gives in to his anger and unleashes on Vader.

 

I always thought that Luke did this just to get past them with nothing to do with whether he's going down a dark path or turning into Vader. If you had that power and was faced with two huge thugs blocking your way, I'm sure you'd use this to incapacitate them instead of taking them both on and end up beaten to a bloody pulp!!

 

We're not likely to see Luke using lightning. Choke isn't truly a dark side power in the sense that lightning is. Choke is arguably an application of "universal" Force TK. It's sort of "dark side" by association. By contrast, Plagueis said that true Sith lightning could not be conjured by Jedi. Powers which require focused, intentional use of the dark side should be ultimately corruptive in nature according to the teachings of Yoda. I could see Luke's order not being dogmatically afraid of attachment, but to avoid the dark side is part of what makes any true Jedi a Jedi.

 

Force choke is generally considered to be a dark side power, but Jedi do occasionally use 'dark side powers'. Mace Windu is one example. However, using such powers can tempt Jedi and turn them to the dark side, so such powers are generally only used by the most powerful and strong-willed Jedi.

Whether or not it is accurate to call Force choke a dark side power is up to interpretation. Generally, some Force powers are considered dark side powers and others are considered light side powers (while some are considered neither). The Force is also generally seen as having a light side and a dark side. However, there are two views of the force: the Living Force, which divides the Force into a light side and a dark side, and the Unifying Force, which does not. Most Jedi subscribe to the Living Force interpretation, however some (I believe Yoda and Qui-Gon are among them) do not. There is no real-world answer to which is the correct view and obviously not everyone in-universe agrees either.

I subscribe to the Unifying Force interpretation. There is no light side or dark side, there is only the Force. Something might be considered a 'dark side' power if it is generally used offensively and/or if 'negative' emotions such as anger are used, but light side and dark side are simply concepts that people use to describe different aspects of the Force.

We do later.

 

Yes, but that was generally agreed to be a stupid series.

 

I don't know, they both have always looked like they were falling asleep to me.

 

In all honesty, I think this might very often be the case. Someone just says "Hey, it would be cool if--" and later on, we, the fans, overanalyze every look and blink and find meanings that probably weren't meant to be there.

In this particular scene, I don't think it's just a "Luke does a cool thing." The resemblance to Vader is obvious from the start. Slow confident pace, black figure, casually choking the guards. That was done on purpose. Also, I don't think he killed them. They way they slump against the wall, I always figured he just nudged them away and choked them until they were unconcious.

 

However, when Luke jumps in TESB, he is still denying (at least outwardly) Vader's claim that he's his father. In ROTJ, when Luke called Vader father, Vader says "So, you have finally accepted the truth". So, it's reasonable to think that Luke accepted the truth, and consequently that Obi-Wan lied to him, between TESB and ROTJ. Thus, Luke's anger towards Kenobi would have grown during this time.

Also, I'm surprised that so many people think that Luke killed those Gamorrean guards. It always seemed obvious to me that Luke only incapacitated them.

I do like the idea that Luke is dressed in black, and uses a force choke (whether it's a "Dark power" or not) to show that e may wind up like his father.

 

Luke attacks "Vader" in the Dark Side cave, rather than fighting defensively, strikes off his head- and the face revealed is his own. Pretty big hint.

Yoda tells him that "If you end your training now, if you choose the quick and easy path, as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil". And Luke ignores Yoda.