Senate Mormonism

GMM,

I honestly did not think that you were trying to be argumentative. I apologize if I came off that way. It was in part because I had to translate everything from Spanish except the scripture quotes. I'm still used to thinking and talking about the gospel in Spanish from my mission.

My point was more that many of the timees where people have claimed that our interpretations of the Bible are "wrong" are because it is different than their interpretation. Because the Church is not an offshoot of any other church, but rather a restoration of Christ's original church, we do have many differences of interpretation. Unfortunately, many people do not realize this, leading to circular arguments ("You're wrong!" "No, you're wrong!" etc.)

Again, I have no desire to cause contention. My comments were more an attempt to limit possible future misunderstandings. Obviously, I did not do as well as I had hoped to.

Still, do you have any other questions about Isaiah 29? We actually covered that chapter recently in one of my Institute classes. I would also be interested in getting your viewpoint on that chapter.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Cool. Glad there's no hard feelings.

So you still think in Spanish? Where did you do your mission? Was it the full two years?

I've got a couple of questions about Isaiah 29, but I'll post them on Monday.

Have a good weekend.

 

So you still think in Spanish? Where did you do your mission? Was it the full two years?

I served in the Nevada Las Vegas West Mission. That mission covers the western half of Nevada and parts of California (and the town of McDermott, Oregon). I got home about 1 year ago after serving the entire 2 years (actually, I was short by 8 days because of when they did transfers).

(Un)fortunately, I do still think in Spanish at times, especially when talking about the gospel. It really gets embarassing when I'm asked to pray in a meeting or something and the first words out of my mouth are in Spanish, not English. However, I have learned a lot of interesting things about the scriptures by studying them in Spanish, as well as in English. The Latin roots of some words really stand out and make some things clearer.

I look forward to your questions.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Don't worry about when you start to pray in Spanish in the meetings. Just say you were praying in tongues

 

I think in Spanish sometimes too (usually scattered words rather than phrases) but it's just from two years of high school Spanish that I took eons ago.

 

mi gusta, sombrero, uh - that's about all I can remember from school. Our Spanish teacher made us draw pictures of stuff with the Spanish words underneath. I can remember drawing an umbrella, but can't remember the word.

What is Spanish for umbrella anyway?

 

I think it is closer to the word 'parasol.'

 

Si, la palabra es parasol, con el acento en el último silabo. It just gets a little frustrating when I can't completely control which language comes out.

Have a good weekend!

Kimball Kinnison

 

I have an few LDS religious history questions: Where are the plates(tablets) now? Isn't it true only about 2/3 of the plates have been interpreted? If so, why? Why not interpret the entire set?

I have a great interest in LDS "history"(the actual stories behind the Book of Mormon).

 

Where are the plates(tablets) now?

Moroni, the ancient prophet who returned as an angel to show Joseph Smith where the plates were, came and relaimed them from Joseph Smith after the translation was finished.

Isn't it true only about 2/3 of the plates have been interpreted? If so, why? Why not interpret the entire set?

The current editions of the Book of Mormon contain only a portion of what was on the plates. There were also 116 pages of manuscript that were lost/stolen. In addition to the parts that were translated, a portion of the plates was sealed and Joseph Smith was commanded not to open that portion. We are told that that portion will be revealed to us when the world is ready to understand it.

I hope that helps.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Thanks KK. BTW, does your first username refer to President Kimball?

 

My question regards the book Latter Days: A Guided Tour through Six Billion Years of Mormonism by Coke Newell.

The book is certainly well-written, but what about its content? Do the Mormon posters here consider the book to be an accurate summary of Mormon doctrine?

 

I just heard about that book somewhere and I think I heard it was fairly good but that's about the most I could say about it at this time. Hopefully it doesn't take six billion years to read. Or 12 parsecs either.

 

Actually, my user name is the name of the main character from the Lensman series of novels, by E. E. "Doc" Smith. That series is considered the first space opera. (Basically, a Lensman is like an overgrown Boy Scout, only with better ships, weapons, etc.)

Kimball Kinnison

 

Ahh yoinkers. I have more SF to read apparently. Never read Smith's Lensmen series.

Moroni was the one who, as the story goes, travelled to upstate New York and originally buried the plates correct?

BTW, where do you believe the original lands of the Mormon tribes where? Doesn't current LDS research point to Central America?

 

Yes, Moroni. And I believe most of the evidence points to Central America but it is certainly not a settled issue.

 

I would like to know what people thought about NBC's coverage of the Church during the olympics.

 

Sorry I haven't replied earlier. I had a date today to go to the National Zoo with a charming young lady. It was a most enjoyable day.

Ahh yoinkers. I have more SF to read apparently. Never read Smith's Lensmen series.

I highly recommend it. Unfortuantely, it is currently out of print, with one exception. The Science Fiction Book Club has a 2-volume compilation of the series (called Chronicles of the Lensman). "Doc" Smith was a major role model for Heinlein and others. He is also a hero worthy of respect for his other acomplishments. He was a food chemist and the man responsible for discovering how to make powdered sugar stick to doughnuts. (I'd say that makes him a hero, wouldn't you?)

Moroni was the one who, as the story goes, travelled to upstate New York and originally buried the plates correct?

Yes, Moroni was one of the last survivors of the Nephite nation and the prophet who recorded their destruction. He later sealed the records up in the Hill Cumorah in upstate New York about 421 BC.

BTW, where do you believe the original lands of the Mormon tribes where? Doesn't current LDS research point to Central America?

I have actually never given this question much thought. It is actually hard to identify the locations listed in the Book of Mormon because at the time of Christ's death, the land went through some massive changes (see 3 Nephi 8). After that time, it does not give many descriptions of which lands were where. Although, there are some evidences that the Jaredite nation (mentioned in the book of Ether) was the Olmec people. Beyond that, I don't know.

More information on the current research can be found at the FARMS website.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Is that the same Lensman as the Anime series?

Or is the book a different thing?

 

About the only similarity between the books and the anime series is that they got a few of the names correct (and not always connected to the right character, either). The anime series supposedly (and I use the word loosely) covers the events in book 3, Galactic Patrol. It doesn't even come close, though.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Oh, I see.

I never even knw there were a series of books. But I remember catching the anime movie on the sci-fi channel many years ago and enjoying it.

 

Hi guys, hope y'all had a good weekend.

Ok, I got a couple of questions about Isaiah 29. On the LDS site that Greedo directed me to the heading for this chapter says "Nephites shall speak as a voice from the dust?The apostasy, restoration of the gospel, and coming forth of Book of Mormon are foretold". So I assume that this is quite a major chapter for you guys.

I've got more questions on the rest of the chapter but I don't want to overwhelm you guys with question upon question. So, it's a couple of questions on the first bit for the moment.


These are the first 4 verses of Isaiah 29:

Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.
Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.
And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.


1] Given that the context is "the city where David dwelt", why is this understood as referring to the Nephites in America?

2] Verse 4 talks about this same city being "brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground". If the context is still the city where David dwelt, why is this understood as referring to the Book of Mormon being found in America?

3] Let's both assume that this passage is talking about the Book of Mormon being found, what does it mean for its voice to be "as of one that hath a familiar spirit"?


I look forward to your answers.

 

GMM,

I promise I will answer your questions, but I just got hit by a double whammy. I have a heavy courseload this week (2 big exams, 2 gigantic programs, 3 labs) and a notebook computer that just crashed (with the aforementioned programs and labs). I don't know exactly when I'll have the time to answer your questions, but I hope to be able to on Wednesday. (I only have one class that day, and no labs.) With any luck I can recover my programs and won't have to rewrite them too much.

I will answer them asap, though. Didn't want you to think that I've forgotten you.

Kimball Kinnison

 

No problem at all. Hope your coursework goes well. Have a good couple of days.

 

GMM,

Well, I finished my program (5 lines of code in C++, but I had to write it in assembly, making it 95 lines) and my notebook is getting fixed, so I have a little free time now. I?ll try to answer your questions now. For reference, here is Isaiah 29:1-4 again. You may find it useful to read in the Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 26-27, where Nephi explains these chapters in greater depth.

Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.
Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.
And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

1] Given that the context is "the city where David dwelt", why is this understood as referring to the Nephites in America?

If you read in the first part of the Book of Mormon, you see that Lehi and his family (from whom came the Nephites and the Lamanites) lived in Jerusalem. In 600 BC, they were commanded to leave Jerusalem because it would be destroyed (in 587 BC). This scripture refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of Israel. Isaiah prophesized of that destruction many times and used it also as a type (or similitude) of the spiritual destruction that would come upon the wicked.

2] Verse 4 talks about this same city being "brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground". If the context is still the city where David dwelt, why is this understood as referring to the Book of Mormon being found in America?

Because Lehi and his family were from Jerusalem, the Nephite and Lamanite nations were offshoots of the people of Jerusalem. Additionally, the Mulekites, a group that joined the Nephites later in the Book of Mormon, also left Jerusalem shortly before the Babylonian captivity. The records of these groups make up the majority of the Book of Mormon, allowing these offshoots of the Jewish nation to ?speak out of the ground?.

3] Let's both assume that this passage is talking about the Book of Mormon being found, what does it mean for its voice to be "as of one that hath a familiar spirit"?

There are two ways that I have seen this interpreted, depending on which definition of ?familiar spirit? you care to use. ?Familiar Spirit? is often used to describe an evil spirit, usually in the context of necromancy (the attempt to raise spirits or people from the dead through magic). However, it is important that the scripture says ?as of one that hath a familiar spirit?, stating that it would be in a similar fashion (a message from the dead), but not that it would be a familiar spirit.

Also, you can look at the term ?familiar?. From my own personal experiences as a missionary, I can tell you that many people who read the Book of Mormon for the first time told me that it seemed that they had read/learned the same things before, that they seemed familiar to them. That feeling comes from the Holy Ghost, which confirms truth and reminds us of the truth that we already know.

I hope that these answers help you. I look forward to any other questions that you may have.

Kimball Kinnison