New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by Geoff1138, Jun 30, 2006.

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  1. Rogue_Thunder FanForce CR, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

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    I saw the stats for Kyle. I can't believe he's a, what? 19th level character (I can't remember right now) and (Legacy of the Force novel SPOILER) Jacen still manages to almost pulverize him? Granted it wasn't easy, but how high a level would Jacen have to be to do that?

    Good find on the book too, Matt. I'm going to have to keep an eye out for that. :D
  2. caichem Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2008
    i think the SAGA edition Core Rulebook will be better.
  3. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    Well technically Jacen didn't pulverise him, wasn't there some fire from a ship and Katarn was 'knocked forward' onto his blade, AFAIK, Jacen didn't even know he'd done it because he himself was shielding his eyes
  4. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

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    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    Anyone got the Threats of the Galaxy book? From what I've seen on the wizards site it's slightly light on stats in my opinion but apparently content wise (background info etc) it's supposed to be alright.

    An index someone made for the book on the wizards forum can be found here http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1032836

    I understand there's a pre-existing thread on the lit forum for it
  5. NJOfan215 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 5
    I looked through it at the book store. It was a little light on stats, but the info seemed good and the art was good also. The updated stats for bane were cool. I think the utility of it would depend on what type of game you're running. I imagine that you'll find at least a few useful npc.
  6. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

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    Jul 11, 2002
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    Cool, that's something I would buy it for, Bane's stats and write-up post the two Bane novels.

    The write-up for Desann's Reborn went into a bit more depth (found on TOS), linking Desann with Lord Hethrir, I understand Hethrir himself had a dip in the Valley before coming up with the idea of a Reborn army.
  7. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    Taking into account that it's riddled with errors -there's some wailing and gnashing of the teet about it at the WotC boards- the book is still worth it because of the sheer breadth of sample characters & suggested uses provided.

    Even if I think that Darth Bane's stats are over the top :p
  8. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

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    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    You mean they made him epic level? :p

    Darth Bane should at the least be level 18, in my opinion.

  9. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    Faster than Maul, wiser & more charismatic than Yoda or Sidious, and with levels of Jedi Knight, even though they provide a talent in the same book that makes him taking levels of JK totally unecessary.
  10. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

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    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    levels in Jedi freakin' knight? What's the Sith Apprentice prestige class for exactly?

    Was that so they could give him lightsaber form mastery I take it?
  11. Rogue_Thunder FanForce CR, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

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    Yeah, levels in Jedi might work from a gameplay perspective, but from a roleplay perspective there's just no reason for it. Go soldier until you qualify for Sith PrC's.
  12. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    In the same book, they provide a new talent for the Sith Talent Tree that allows you to get form mastery, so I have no idea why he has levels in Jedi Knight.
  13. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    Darth Bane defines level 20.

    Sounds right to me.

    Unnecessary but not undesirable, I think.

    It's also worth noting that a lot of the archetypal characters seem to be RPG stats of SW minis (Bith Black Sun Vigo, anyone?), and so I would imagine they looked at Bane's (totally obscene) mini stats for inspiration on some level.

    Stats, especially class selection, in Saga Edition are entirely concerned with the gameplay perspective and have nothing whatsoever to do with roleplay considerations. The right stats are the ones that reproduce the right mechanical effects.
  14. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

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    Jul 11, 2002
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    Then why make a special pre-req of being part of the Jedi tradition to take levels in Jedi Knight?

    Why not make a more generically named prestige class with different talent trees for Sith, Darksiders, Jedi and Force Adepts? Definitions of Jedi etc vary depending on the era, look at Vodo Siossk Baas and his lightsaber proof stick, he was a Jedi, yet he had that ability. I thought that's what customisation was about. Obviously it's not as simple as that, but I just think it should be made more open and left to the GM to police.
  15. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

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    Aug 12, 2002
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    My guess is that it was something they went back and forth on, decided to stick with the idea of the Jedi Knight class being associated with the Jedi Order at the time of SECR, and then almost immediately started backpedalling. I wouldn't be surprised to see that requirement waived through Jedi Counselling or something similar in the near future.
  16. JediAlly Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2000
    star 4
    I agree he should be level 20, but having read Path of Destruction, I'd say he should definitely have a few levels as Soldier. At least 2 or three. One level of nonheroic to reflect his upbringing is a possibility, but not essential. The rest should be Jedi, Sith Lord, and maybe Sith acolyte.
  17. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

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    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    It's important to realize that the level breakdown is not meant to be a biographical recap. It's not like you take a character, break down his history, and assign levels based on that ("OK, he spent X amount of time among the Gloom Walkers - let's call that two levels of Soldier"). That's not how it works. You take the character as a snapshot at a specific moment in time, figure out what CL he should be, and then figure out how best to model what he can do with the levels you have. It doesn't matter how he got to where he is now, just that the skills and feats and talents he has represent who he is now and what he can do now.

    In other words, if you were to create stat block for Dessel among the Gloom Walkers, the best way to do that might be as a Soldier 3/Scout 2, but Darth Bane as of the end of PoD might not have any Soldier or Scout levels at all. NPC stats are a snapshot in time, not a linear progression.

    That wouldn't make any sense. Does Luke have nonheroic levels for having been a moisture farmer? Most people are born ordinary, but their levels aren't supposed to reflect that.

    In any case, Dessel was never ordinary, even when he was a miner. He was always different somehow in a way that people couldn't put a finger on, and he was always destined for bigger things - in game terms, that means he was heroic from the get-go.
  18. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    I disagree with JediAlly about Bane having nonheroic levels, but as I said on another message board thread ;) I think it's rather easy to do a 20th level version of Bane that is also reverse engineer-able to take into account his early years. But I also admit that I'm playing "armchair designer."
  19. dp4m Chosen One

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    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    And, as a defender of this system, you consider this a good thing?
  20. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

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    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    I don't see a lot of value in that. What's important is that when the dice start flying, Darth Bane does what he's supposed to be able to do. If I'm running him circa the Gloom Walkers era, I want stats for that, and if I'm running him 10 years post-Ruusan, I want stats for that, but, honestly, when am I likely to use both in the same campaign? Even if I did, what's to stop me from just switching sets of stats entirely? I can have one set of stats for young Dessel, and an entirely different set of unrelated stats for Darth Bane at his peak, because, mechanically, they're entirely different.

    There is apparently some talk about WOTC rolling out a set of very aggressive and flexible retraining rules, where you can swap out old classes, talents, feats, etc. as you advance. (e.g. Luke might start off as a Scout 2, eventually add a few Jedi levels, and then go back and trade in the Scout levels for two more Jedi levels). They floated that in PHB II for D&D 3.5, and there's apparently something in the works for SECR. Rebuild-as-you-go!

    Absolutely. Stats represent what the character can do, not how they came to do it, or how they relate to the world around them. Classes are bundles of related skills and abilities, which are themselves abstract effects which serve as a framework you can hang fluff on.

    Basically, Jedi the class shouldn't mean Jedi the institution, it should mean "skill package for a person who has either Force abilities, lightsaber skills, or ideally both." It doesn't matter if that person is Jerec or Mara Jade or Bane or Darca Nyl or Luke Skywalker. Players should come up with a character concept and mix and match modular ability packages (aka "classes") to flesh out that character's abilities, not look to the character class to provide the concept.
  21. dp4m Chosen One

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    Nov 8, 2001
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    I guess that's why we're so adamantly against one another in the Saga debate because I view the system as enabling roleplaying first and statting second.

    One of the reasons I still love the WEG system (despite some of the inherent clunkiness in it) as well as the old RCRB, which allowed more roleplaying flexibility than the Saga edition does, IMO.

    Granted, nothing can really compare with almost-entirely skill-based systems like Mythus or the like rather than ability-based systems, but each system has its own drawbacks.
  22. Rogue_Thunder FanForce CR, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

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    If that's the case, then, I don't think they should have a Jedi base class. Just call it Force Adept, or Force User, and do away with the Jedi base class completely, that way a PC can train up in generic Force abilities (just the generic lightsaber or other Force weapon forms [lightwhip, cortosis blade, whatever]) until they qualify for Sith Acolyte, or Jedi Knight PrC (then Jedi Master/Sith Lord), because when you say a person has Jedi levels there's a connotation that they should have Jedi skills. What's to stop some munchkin from saying they should be able to take certain light side powers (and they will have those powers in some future sourcebook) when they're playing a character with more DSP's than Palpatine because they can argue that they have levels in Jedi.
  23. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    I'm at the point where the next time my character levels I would take a level of Jedi Knight based on his past and what I've done in the game but due to the game being set in the Dark Times era there is no point whatsoever in reaching that milestone as every freakin' talent available as a Jedi Knight points to lightsaber combat or armour wearing.

    Why would I WANT a lightsaber in the dark times era if I don't have a death wish?!?

  24. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

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    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    Statting effectively does enable roleplay. You come up with a character concept, and you look for stats that fit that concept. You don't look to the stats to tell you how to play your character.

    In other words, IMHO, rules enable roleplay best when they give you the most flexibility in getting the statistical model of your character to match what you think he or she should be able to do when you see him or her in your head, not when they provide a sharply defined role that you then play to.

    I'm genuinely baffled by the idea that RCR was more flexible than SECR. SECR practically defines flexibility and customization in a class-and-level based system.

    Saga Edition: You're doin' it wrong.

    The name is more iconic and marketable and it makes it more accessible to new players. Any first time group is going to have someone say "I wanna play a Jedi" and that's a pretty basic plug-and-play Jedi class there which will let you play a more-or-less generic Jedi from the movies. Once people get more into the game, they will learn that not all Jedi have levels in the Jedi class, and not all people with levels in Jedi are Force-sensitive at all, much less Jedi. Calling the class "Jedi" works both for newbies (who can easily find an approximation of what they're looking for) and experienced players (who should be smart enough to recognize fluff labels for what they are).

    No connotation! Only connotation in your mind! You must unlearn what you have learned.

    Because the rules explicitly inhibit people with DSPs from using light side powers? In ways that are not at all affected by class? You can have levels in whatever you want, but the restrictions on light side powers still hold.

    If you don't want talents relating to lightsaber wielding, why are you interested in taking levels in JK? Taking levels in JK, again, has nothing whatsoever to do with being a Jedi Knight. It has everything to do with swinging a lightsaber.

    If your character should be considered a Jedi Knight based on his background, have him call himself a Jedi Knight and *poof* he's a Jedi Knight. It doesn't matter what his class build is.
  25. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

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    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    Hey, I can't really argue with this, the only sticking point I have with this 'take the class that suits the skills you want rather than that you've played' is that it's the opposite of what I'm used to, and the opposite of the approach I took while building the character in the first place. Add to that it's a solid example of metagaming and you can see why I don't really agree with it.

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