Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Valairy Scot, Sep 4, 2012.
I like Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Yeah, I like to go back to old posts and now we can tag them even if they're closed!
KenKenobi: Hi - what do you like about Obi-Wan?
Welcome! Yes, what do you like? We all went through all the things we loved, I think when we started this thread
Female bounty hunters the height of absurdity???? Wow
And women infringing on men's roles...how can a man remain manly when a women does manly things?
I admit I'm going through old threads... though to me they are new... some of the conversations are fascinating...
I imagine they would be! That stuff about women is pretty crazy, haha...
I have watch both of the series and I have read the books too! I just love these two series!
So I've been thinking about attachment a lot lately because it's such a tricky, complicated thing and I do feel there's room for interpretation in canon. I'm well aware I often feel like the free love for Obi-Wan hippie! of the Obi-Wan appreciation society but I do try very hard to keep separate distinctions in my head of what I 'want' to see and believe and what I enjoy writing and what is actually practical or most likely and I think a lot about what the movies present as evidence for each aspect of the 'attachment' debate.
There are times, though, where I come across representations of Obi-Wan's story that present such a bleak cold picture of non-emotion that I'm just completely thrown for a loop - where 'emotional' connections of any and every kind are forbidden in every way. And it makes me take the time to try to objectively sort out all my thoughts on the subject. I think the Force does embody that ideal of no emotion, and I do think the Jedi seek this in every aspect of decision making in their duty but I think it's important, and I think they do show that they have humanity as well, and this does include emotion, even if one still doesn't let it control them.
I think the one main thing that bothers me is when people simplify and declare that attachment and love are implicitly the same thing when I feel very strongly that they are not. You can easily have love without any dangerous attachment and a possessive attachment is not true love at all.
So I had some random flitting thoughts yesterday that I jotted down:
Bonds of love are essential to all sentient life - to creating and fostering kindness and compassion and caring in the world. These bonds - love - gives us strength, faith, tenacity and the will to do good.
Love and attachment are not synonymous. Non-attachment is simply about being able to let go, because everything in this life is fleeting. Nothing stays. This doesn't mean you shouldn't be grateful and happy for what you are given, now, just that when the time comes, you strive, find a way to let it go without regret.
Attachment is not love at all. When you love something you let it go. Although it is a tenet of being a Jedi, it is something everyone should embrace. It is not exclusive to the life of the duty-bound.
For a Jedi, it means putting the the good of many, above the good of one, always. A Jedi's topmost priority is always the will of the Force, but does that mean it is demanded that they cannot have anything else at all? That there can be no second on the list, or third? That there can be no list?
Peace does not mean lack of emotion, because emotion *is*. In contrast, it is accepting emotion. There is no emotion in the Force; the Force is a philosophical ideal, something to strive for in duty and service. But a Jedi has life, as well as duty. Duty is first, but life is there unavoidably and life needs nourishment - water, food, comfort, companionship - to be sustained in any measure.
Duty is utmost in a Jedi's life. And for this, other equally as important responsibilities, family, cannot be taken on. But not because there is none that could handle it, only because it is unknown who could handle it and it would remain unproven until proven too late.
What I write and think, is of course, pure speculation, but it's where my muse takes me, and I'm very aware it's only one, perhaps unlikely, possibility of many speculations that could be made.
As it pertains to Obi-Wan, I feel that enough evidence is presented on his character (and enough lack of evidence on the exact interpretation of the 'rules' that stem from the code) in the movies to show that he could have some kind of relationship and still do his duty exactly as he did in the movies, all while keeping his principles in serving the Force and following the code. I also feel that it is entirely possible that he did not have any kind of in depth romantic relationship because he chose to focus on his duty alone. But it is clear he had important friendships, he cared for people, his compassion was almost limitless, he loved Anakin and Qui and he was able to do his duty as a Jedi maybe better or just as well as anyone else
Anyway, just my thoughts on a complex subject. While I try to always be honest and well spoken, it still scares the heck out of me to put my feelings on this subject out there. Please feel free to pick apart all my ideas to pieces but try not to burn me alive
I like a lot of things about Kenobi, especially his dedication to being a good Jedi despite an increasingly corrupt Republic, a sometimes frustrating Jedi Council bureaucracy, and the personal tolls of war. I also like how he's refined his fighting style, to be one of the most efficient duelists ever and maximize his abilties as a warrior-- and yet be the Negotiator, to avoid violence when he can. His relationship with Skywalker is arguably my favorite in the Star Wars Universe, and his humor is like froth on the top of a tall glass of Jawa Juice (not made with real Jawas).
Is this my application for the Fan Club?!
This, so much this. Humans - or sentient life of any kind, I think - cannot exist in a vacuum of ideals. We need something real, something tangible to keep us going through the dark times, of which there will be many, particularly for someone who has sworn an oath to uphold the light.
Like our Obi-Wan - he had Qui-Gon's voice. If he hadn't, would hope alone have been sufficient?
Do you mean on Tatooine, after everything?
I think Obi-Wan was capable of great measures of strength in all ways. After such a dark, dark event (Anakin's fall) I think it would be incredibly painful to try to come back from that without support (a bit of companionship and understanding, some compassion sent his way). I think Obi could have been able to do it alone, but it would've taken a very, very long time. A lot of meditation and thinking, and a lot of struggle at forgiving himself.
But he did have Qui, and I think it's plausible to speculate that after a time he was able to afford himself a little companionship in other ways as well.
Yeah, I meant on Tatooine. That was probably the lowest point of his life - he had lost EVERYTHING and had only faith and hope to keep him company - and Qui-Gon, although who knows how often they spoke.
I agree, it's hard to imagine, but he had truly lost everything and likely feeling he was the one person in the best place to perhaps have stopped it.
I think it would be very difficult, and that's an understatement. But I think even a few words from Qui and his faith in the Force, even with how hard it would be to believe in it at that point, would slowly help him heal. And even small gestures of friendship and kindness can go a really long way, I feel and those are the moments I love. The seemingly small things that can mean the world to someone.
Those moments are the really fun ones to write.
They are fun to write, and to read as well, because everyone can relate to a small moment of happiness or compassion. Most of us can't fight epic battles or slay that dragon, but we can make a cup of tea (or coffee or wine ) for someone we care about who has had a rough day.Those little moments and gestures define us because they illustrate how we (and our characters) interact with each other and with the world at large.
There's a story, here or on ff.n, where Beru is reluctant to have (baby) Luke in contact with Obi-Wan. Well, he has a bit of a run in with some local, hurt lizard-thing, gets bitten when trying to help, and well, just breaks up laughing. Beru decides then if "Ben" can laugh, maybe it's ok for him to see Luke.
It's exactly those moments, sharing a cup of tea or a sip of wine. Finding something to laugh about - that create moments of companionship whether it's with someone you barely know or someone you care about deeply that don't have anything to do with attachment and aren't anything to be afraid of. And those little things can do amazing things to heal the heart
@serendipityaey (#134): That is very beautifully put, and I agree with you all the way.
If you don't have a padawan, this one is free
Aww, thank you! I have been thinking about this for days. I honestly thought everyone was going to say I was crazy. There's so much I feel is so important - friendship and companionship and compassion and real love
I like free! Never had a Padawan
It always makes me wonder what Obi-Wan did during those 20 years. Sure watching over Luke... Thinking about where he went wrong with Anakin? I think that's another reason why I like Obi-Wan so much, he's such a tragic character. It sort of makes me wonder what his life had been like if he hadn't become a Jedi? He's obviously very powerful.... Oh dear, another fic idea right there which I don't need right now...