ST Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

I've always viewed this as the best scenario. First off we all get something new and not predictable not really tied down by any EU plot or setup. Second we still get some of the very best (most popular) stuff the EU did so the hard core fans, video game fans, and tv show fans get acknowledgement for decades of fan loyality which should satisfy... most. Finally Disney can continue raking in money from the EU, and new fans wanting to know more about these stories that "offically never happened, but could have" can go out and buy them. Its mostly a win, win, win.

 

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/04/you-take-your-star-wars-ill-keep-mine

An article about the evolution of Star Wars, and the future

 

Star Trek gave an in-universe reason for the reboot of the continuity, but it was still a reboot. Its not like Into Darkness is going to take place in the Prime Universe. The old stuff was ignored and they went in a completely new direction. The biggest difference between Star Trek and Star Wars (at least in terms of the reboot/EU issues) is that what they wanted to get around in Star Trek were the other movies and tv series that a large number of fans (hardcore and casual) knew/know, on one level or another. With Star Wars the EU is nowhere near as well known as the movies or the tv series. Most people don'tknow much about the overall EU story and even less know every detail. Someone who hasn't watching Star Trek since TNG would know that Vulcan was around later on in the time line, but someone who has only seen the moveis and TCW wouldn't know who Mara Jade is (for example). They don't have to give an in-universe reason for ignoring the EU story or its characters, they can just ignore it and the vast majority of the movie going public won't know the difference.

The other thing to remember is that, this issue isn't limited to one movie. They aren't going to make Episode VII, then go back to having Star Wars only exist in the EU or anything like that. We are going to get Episodes VIII and IX. Maybe even more. We are going to get other "non-episode" films. TV shows (probably more then one over the next 10-20 years). We are going to get new books and comics for years and years to come. They are going to lience Star Wars video games etc.... They paid over 4 billion for Star Wars, we are going to get a LOT of Star Wars material over the next 10-20+ years, basically as long as its profitable. The more they stick to the EU now, and decision they make that means the EU is canon has to be "respected" in the future puts a lot of limitions on what they can do in the future. Its not just "what want Luke to be single now", in 5 years they could want to introduce a completely different love interest and story about that love interest in a tv series or comic book series, and if they are locked into Mara......

Thats why I think we won't see the same kind of strong, everything counts, canon moving forward. When you are looking at 10-20+ years of producing content across multi. media, knowing you are going to bring in a wide range of creative people, the more you tie yourself to what you've done in the past (espically what people who don't work for you now and didn't work for you then did) the more limited you are creatively. I think when Disney looks over at Marvel who can literally do ANYTHING with its characters (Granted, in the right medium), which gives them a huge amount of creative freedom and earning potential, I don't think Disney is going to want to hear "we can't do X with Star Wars because a book released in 1996 already covered it". Hulk isn't part of the Avengers in the comics (at least last time I was reading comics), but they'll put him on the team in the movie so Disney can sell Hulk shirts, and hats and stuffed toys and fist gloves etc... The first time Disney marketing talks about a Chewie stuffed toy and finds out he won't be in Episode VII because a book that came out 15 years ago, or they can't make a cartoon series set 5 years after RotJ because that era is covered already..........thats a problem.

 

Lets ignore shoehorning "respect" and following the EU as a result of respecting it for a moment... the two are very different things and dont have to corrolate.

Anyways, Mara Jade, she may not be 'known' to kids who watched The Clone Wars (but highly likely by just about every other EU fan) but her role with the Emperor was foreshadowed in it several times in the Clone Wars. Cad Bane's introductory arc Darth Sidious said he foresaw an army of dark side (not sith) followers to secretly carry out his orders after he was gloating about caputing force sensitive children (cough, like Mara Jade)... clearly a reference to the Emperor's Hands (and thus Mara Jade)or close enough. Asajj Ventress to Dooku, while him really being Sidious apprentice or Starkiller in TFU has played off her roll under The two true Sith. So any kid hearing this will be able to instantly pick up on her back history and any adult is smart enough to figure it out in two lines of dialog like they did with Obiwan telling Luke about his past in ANH. As to her romance with Luke, it was meant to be subtle and long term build but Kevin J Anderson felt she should date Lando instead so the EU authors as a whole rebelled and thus the Hand of Thrawn and Union stories.

So who really cares if they get married, it was done just to prevent authors doing random things with her character... and to respect the EU if Luke has kids just make her the mother and ignore them marrying if Lucas feels it goes against the Jedi code. See, respect doesnt mean they have to limit themselves by following the EU to the letter but if the flow of the two match then might as well make it cannon, or if just generally close but not quite right then rework it to match.

 

But then they are locked into Mara having a releationship with Luke and her being the mother of his child/children. They may want to go a completely different way in Episode VII, and in 5 or 10 years they may hire someone who has a great, but completley different idea about what Lukes love life post RotJ shoul dbe and will cover it in a tv series or book or movie etc... But they'd be locked into Mara Jade because of some books written in the mid-90's.

Limitations on what they can do creatively and commerically.

Fundmentally your solution is "take this and you can work within certain limitations". I'm saying they can give themselves complete and total freedom, not only with Episode VII but with all Star Wars material moving forward. Which do you think is more appealing to them?

 

To be perfectly honest, bringing in Mara Jade might be the very thing that would give me second thoughts about seeing the ST - I really dislike the character that much. And before people say "What if they just use the name and likeness - ie make her a red headed Jedi named Mara Jade, and ditch her backstory?" Well, then EU lovers would be up in arms saying 'That's not Mara!'




ETA - Ironically, if I ever decided to cosplay I'd have to either go as a Twi'lek or someone like Barriss Offee, as in regular life, I'm actually really a 'busty red head'...

 

And how does Mara being a mom to a character Lucas created limit them? They can do whatever they want to her? She's been interuptited in many ways now by many authors so they can play with her character template all they want and with only a 10 page story treatment its not like any 'Mara as mother to Luke's kid(s) character' would be fleshed out at all to be in contridiction to Lucas's very basic 10 page outline of general events.

This is like claiming Black Widow's 1960's take limited the Avengers movie... they can do whatever they really want and her basic personality wouldnt be in conflict at all, also if they feel like playing up an aspect of her they can easily do that. I personally hate Captain America... yet I still saw the Avengers and loved it, please dont give me fallacy arguments like that... we all know you'll see it anyways. Just as people saw RotJ even though the 'traitor' Lando was in it. The longer a series runs the more odds of a few characters you'll hate... and we're about to get a ton of Star Wars, in the end does it matter if it's Mara or someone new you hate?

 

Well, **** those guys. They don't matter in the grand sense. Someone will be pissed off anyway, it is inevitable.

Personally I hope for a mix and mash approach. If it fits somewhat, use it, if it doesn't, throw it away. If Lukes wife is to be a "fiery, tough and red headed action-girl" nothing really speaks against calling her Mara Jade. If she isn't, well then Mara is not meant to be in the movie. Simple as that.

 

They to have Luke involved with Mara Jade at some point, and given that its a family/kids property they are most likely going to be married. If she isn't in the films they have to deal with her being dead or missing. They can't create their own character or tell a different story (either in th emovies, a spin off, a tv series or a book series) of Luke falling in love with someone else and the remifications of that (her being the mother of his child/children, her death affecting his character leading into the movie etc....).

Its not like the Black Widow thing because there is no connection between the two characters. They could turn Mara into a "shell" of a character to be redone over and over again, but I don't think thats what you're talking about, and she hasn't been that at all. She has always been a fairly consistant character. I could see them having Luke being with Mara in the novels, but never got married and not having kids in the movies, and being interested in a different character in a cartoon. Basically, no consistant canon because the properties. Thats how Marvel does it.

 

That's actually exactly what I was talking about. They can easily go on and give her a different story in the new and with the ST consistent EU works. The old books (NJO and all that jazz) would simply be treated like the SW marvel comics as "special canon". You can still read them just don't expect any consistency with the official line.

 

Minus the being redone over and over part, that was exactly what I was talking about fenton. Just redo it once though, to bring her from EU Mara to Disney episode VII Mara… then keep what other EU stuff they can too in as just previously stated a 'mix and match' approach and call it a day. The EU gets recoginzed and what doesnt happen can at least get acknowledged via a vision in a spinoff/tv show as a possible future that never came about and reape in profits from the 17,000 characters and new stories.

Also to reitterate it, Lucas's story treatment is only ten pages... the odds of conflict because of a personality mismatch between Mara and Lukes other wife are minimal and next off drafts changes and evolve. Look at any OT draft... just cause one thing was different doesnt mean it cant be modified and improved upon like making Vader become Anakin too which was never originally called for. Using Lucas's ten page story treatment to write out a single character isnt proper logic since story treatments are more about ideas than characterization, especially in scifi/fantasy.

 

Honestly fenton - if anyone other than you had written that, I would have seriously

ETA - It's not that I object to Luke falling in love and getting his girl, I just don't want 'Wonder woman'.

 

Hatred of one's own kind then?

 

Yeah, I had to laugh when I looked in the mirror after I made that post - on an aside, I found out today that Sharon Mcrandel, the model for Mara Jade on the book covers is facing cancer, and is feeling pretty low and scared - send her some good vibes and a note if you get a chance. She's a lovely lady in person.

 

Isnt it Shannon Mcrandel? And she has what? O.O

Must make facebook account to wish her well... thanks for the info

 

Yes, sorry, my bad - I think she also has a webpage as well, but I don't know what it is but she does seem to be pretty active on facebook (I found out via a mutual friend). I sat with her at C3 as an autograph escort,she;s a very nice person.

 

I checked the web page, if it mentions cancer I failed to find it. Likely she'll get around to it, cancer can be very stressful and therefore cause less visted sites to be forgotten. Cant blame her, wow, she's only in her 40s too and has 3 kids too... wish them all the best and really hope they caught it early.

 

She just mentioned it on her FB page today - I'll find it in a sec.

ETA: This is what she posted: Okay, so it has been a long, painful and hard week. It is difficult to talk to so many people on the phone because I only have a few good moments here and there right now. This past week I was diagnosed with cancer. We are testing next week (if I make it that far) to see how big the initial tumor is and starting the process to see if it has spread. Most likely my spring will be chemo and radia...tion therapies to shrink this first tumor to a size the surgeon can handle cutting out. It's going to be a long road especially for my family.I worry most about my children. No matter what happens, thank you all for being my friends and thank you for all of the amazing memories I have gotten from Star Wars and my connection to all that is that wonderful universe. I will keep you updated as possible. It's not always easy for me to do things I want to do right now. An hour at a time is how I am going to have to go for a while. Don't worry too much, I have plenty of spit and spite left in me...hopefully enough to knock this thing out! But prayers and positive thoughts are gladly appreciated. For now, it's all we can do. Have a fantastic Thursday and I will check back in when I can. God Bless.

 

I don't think they'd be treated as special canon, I think they'll stop worrying about canon between properties.

But Mara hasn't be redone or reimagined yet, she has been fairly consistant. In the movies she could have never been the Emperors Hand or just a Student Luke had, or maybe not even able to use the force etc.. As for a "mix and match" approach, I don't think they are going to just "call it a day", if thats what they want to do. The people making the cartoon series set before the movies will probably change the characters to fit what they are doing. And if a comic book guy wants to change them, he'll do it as well etc... As I pointed out thats one of the great stengths of Marvel, whatever they want to do they can do in some form of their universe. If they want Cap and Black Widow to have a romance in the movie, they can do it and it doesn't affect the comics.The first time there is some conflict with what creative or marketing can do because of what some book from 1997 said, everyone is going to be told to ignore it.

You keep going back tot his 10 page treatment - the producer has said they don't have a book series and are getting their info from Lucas. He is part of their creative meetings, his input is much deeper then just a 10 page story treatment. So if that treatment doesn't go into detail, from what they've said, either Arndt is just making it up or they going to LUCAS for info, not hte EU. THen the director flat out said - they are coming up with their own version of whats happened between RotJ and Episode VII.

 

Cade's mother was ruined when she suddenly turned from imperial hardass to mushy and sexy chick. Totally unbelievable.

 

LOL!
Wouldn't some fans be annoyed if she's in it at all? After all, she IS supposed to be dead!

I guess I can relate, though...I'd feel the same way if Anakin Skywalker/Vader appeared in the ST, clone, force ghost, or whatever...

 

edit tablet double posted not edited...

 

Fenton, Lucas himself said his job these days was mostly 'you can do this but not that' then talking about how SW car have antigravity not wheels (thus implying he's more just approving ideas and trying to make sure Star Wars stays Star Wars and doesnt become Star Trek lets say)... this implies a writters room mentality not Lucas hand feeding them every idea. Sorry I turst the horses mouth more than your conclusions.

Next off Im glad you have an opinion that Mara cant be edited but its just that, an opinion. Also there was a first time Marvel created a new universe and same with Star Trek, series like these proove just because it hasnt happened before doesnt mean it cant happen a first time. Finally why cant they adapt EU characters into it, after all avoiding the EU at all cost is as limiting creativity wise for the writters... can you imagine them saying, bleep Han's daughter cant be a Jedi just cause the EU did it. I hope not since it's foolish to limit themselves this way just as much as it is to say bleep the EU killed Chewie so I guess we cant use him. A mix and match is the safest route to take and so far every choice they made has been safe.

I love how you talk about how you say Marvel is awesome but then state the ST cant copy them and redo characters from the EU in a new universe, cause thats exactly Marvel's MO.

Now back to that writter's room, simply put half the staff in it is conitinuity super freaks and the other half is Clone Wars mentality of lets adapt the EU into new stories. Only a few very ambigious lines more directly implying no direct book adaptation will be used, this same line could be used to perfectly discribe the Clone Wars TV show, yet it had quite a bit of EU... for kids who didnt even know about it. Sorry but there has been no mass exodus of LFL employees, so why should these two known widely held operating methodologies at LFL have changed. Its staffed by those who go nuts about keeping continuity and use known characters every chance they get and on the flip side of that you have the adapation staff... there is no lets destroy the entire EU staff there, even Lucas the biggest destroyer of EU approves EU into G-level cannon, when in doubt he has ordered his staff to look to the EU many times before.

Next off I missed that JJ quote and recall you failing to link it last time asked for it, however even a new story doesnt exculde EU sneaking in in large or in tiny pieces. It just means we're getting a new timeline, it doesnt go as far as whipping out the EU in its entirity yet. Plus even as a big EU fan Im fine with 95% of it getting destroyed, I just want to have some EU acknowledged beyond a character stating in the background... you know a few major EU characters surviving, planets, starships, etc...