main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

*OFFICIAL THREAD* Padmé's death and Leia's memories

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by GLucasUSC, Nov 5, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Tiershon_Fett

    Tiershon_Fett Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father "when" you were born I believe this possibly implies that Obi-Wan was there at the birth.


    To me, that quote kinda proves that Anakin would not hurt his kids.
    It was Palpatine that would. (Also makes me severely doubt that Palpatine would go around collecting force sensitive little red-headed girls. He would do that, but to kill them.)
     
  2. -Neuromancer-

    -Neuromancer- Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Lucas can make explosions in space, ships the make noise in space, two suns that produce one shadow, FTL, creatures that live on asteroids just waiting for food to happen by (what a poor creature, must be perpetually hungry), laser swords that don't act like lasers even a tiny bit, but he can't have a baby remember her MOTHER?

    Sometimes i don't get the selective disbelief on display here. If one can believe all the rest why can't they believe a baby can remember her mother's face as an adult? At least that doesn't break the laws of physics like all the rest does!
     
  3. -Neuromancer-

    -Neuromancer- Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    So it's ok for Yoda, an arguably as important if not more important character, to just disappear to Dagobah for a movie and a half? Possibly never to be seen again as far as people watching all 6 movies in order know? I must say, I think it'd work fine.

    That's not hard to argue with at all. Actually, it's pretty easy to demolish.

    It's apples and oranges. #1)Yoda came back and Padme didn't. Coming back a movie and a half later is hardly comparable to a passing reference two and a half movies later. #2) Yoda isn't as important to the Saga as Padme, and is never a primary character. Padme is. She is central to the Saga in the form of Anakin, Luke, and leia, none of which would be where they are in the OT without her.

    Having her vanish, NEVER to reappear (unlike Yoda), is the height of stupidity and bad storytelling.



    EDIT: Whoops, that was pretty old. It was a reply to shadowjedi on the FIRST PAGE! I read it and hit reply before thinking what page i was on. Owell, i'll let it stand.
     
  4. Darth_Howell_III

    Darth_Howell_III Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2002
    "...why can't they believe a baby can remember her mother's face as an adult?"

    Realistically, Neuro, the problem there is that it would SEEM like Lucas messed up.

    If that plot-point never gets properly put to rest, friend and foe alike will pounce on the possibility that they could "outwit the master"; that is, the public will RUSH to point out something that "George forgot."

    *

    Worse, WHEN PEOPLE INEVITABLY POUNCE ON THIS PRESUMED WEAKNESS, George will know, in his heart of hearts, that their noses keenly detected the smell of his blood.

    He is on record as stating that he DID NOT ENTIRELY THINK OUT PADME'S FATE as of the time he was making ROTJ.

    He didn't "know" how old Leia was when her mom died, or the circumstances under which they ultimately parted. He got lazy; he got burned out with Star Wars.

    As a result, he would have to explain away his apparent oversight every day for the rest of his life.

    George is too proud to give his detractors such ammunition to use against him. He SHOULD close this real-or-imagined loophole, and I believe he will.

     
  5. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    Neuromancer-

    I think Ben did know about Leia, he just didn't considered her an option because he felt that she's already in danger of falling to the darkside now that she's attached to Han Solo.
     
  6. Darth_Howell_III

    Darth_Howell_III Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2002
    Go, PMT!

    Yes, and she had a strong head too, considering the Force to be "a power she didn't understand, and could never have."

     
  7. -Neuromancer-

    -Neuromancer- Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    The fact remains that everything else i mentiond is a physical impossibility.


    • Two sources of light (in this case, suns) cast two shadows.
    • Space is a Vaccuum. Sound cannot travel in Vaccuum.
    • Nothing explodes in space, which has been established as a vaccuum, in any way which we know. Explosions require oxygen. You can point at a Supernova, but that's quite a bit different.
    • Lasers don't go for a meter and then stop, they go on until they dissipate. They cannot 'stop' or 'parry' other lasers the way Lightsabres do. They pass through one another.
    • Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light (though i'll grant that this is debatable).
    • Any creature that parks on an asteroid waiting for it's food must like being hungry. The idea of something like this evolving naturally is ridiculous. Space is just that, space. It's full of a lot of nothing.
    • Luke can breathe on a GAS GIANT? Not to mention holding himself to that antenna when he'd have weighed 2000 pounds. It could be argued that they had some kind of antigravity system in place on Bespin, this is simply replacing one impossibility with another (Antigrav also breaks the laws of Physics).
    • Whole planets consisting of nothing but deasert or antarctic type terrain would have hardly any green plants, therefore no Oxygen atmosphere to breathe. No-one would be on Tatooing or Hoth without an air supply.
    • Teddy bear looking aliens with short, stubby legs, that live in TREES? Anything that evolved in a forest and climbed trees would look like it could actually climb (like it was 'designed' for it).
    • An alien creature living in a trash compactor that survived past the first compacting is a very fortunate alien creature indeed.
    • Professional soldiers, cloned or not, that can't hit someone while shooting from 50 feet away are no better that the battle driods and would be out of a job.
    • The Force.
    • When Anakin redirected Obi-Wan's signal to Coruscant from Genoasis, it should have taken 50,000 years to reach it. I'll grant that an unnatural thing like a starship MAY be able to travel faster than light one day, but any transmission is composed of energy, which is limited to the speed of light.



    One can accept ALL THAT, and yet an infant carrying memories of her mother to adulthood is far fetched?









    That i just don't get.



    EDITS: Formatting.
     
  8. GLucasUSC

    GLucasUSC Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2002
    Thank god we get some posters with nerves! I've been trying to explain this to some of these dunce cats ever since I got here. BTW let me explain why I think I should get away with saying "dunce"...
    Because there are more effective ways of telling a story. There are not optional ways...there are RIGHT ways. Alfred Hitchcock understood this. He wouldn't shoot a scene just because it was his way...he would because its the right way. What serves the story better? The RIGHT thing to happen dramatically in this saga is to kill padme on screen. No opinions necesarry. Ah-thankyou.
     
  9. Spitsweet

    Spitsweet Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2002
    WOAH !!! that is EXACTLY what I have been trying to explain in the last 3 years Neuro!!!!!!! thank you SO MUCH!!!

    this will shut some people who believes more in Space Explosion than a baby remembering her mom's feelings....
     
  10. ShadowJedi05

    ShadowJedi05 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2002
    hmm... so people who agree with you have nerves and people who don't agree and stand up to you are dunces. That's some fantastic logic you have going on there.
     
  11. Darth Sin

    Darth Sin Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 1999
    There does seem to real potential problems that could arise and never be forgotten if Lucas does not close this properly concerning Padme's fate in relation to Leia's line from ROTJ of her remembering.

    As I posted in my last post here, I think this can be done.

    But here are the questions that I ask:

    Did Lucas possibly make a mistake here? Yes

    Can he fix it and bring closure? Yes

    Will how he does it be accepted and/or believeable? Debatable

    For many the idea of using the Force to explain how Leia could remember her mother is generally unacceptable, especially if Padme dies in EP III soon after the twins are born.

    If Padme does not die in EP III, then many feel that no matter how you imply and know that she is going to die does not bring closure for such a significant character that is the love and wife of Anakin and the mother of the twins.

    As I outlined in my last post; which I may repost, believeing that the Force can cause one to remember images and feelings, even from a time when one was an infant or small child could be accepted provided it is done properly based on the info we already have from the films and minor examples that could validate as much.


    Darth Sin! :cool:

     
  12. ANAKINSTARKILLER45

    ANAKINSTARKILLER45 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2002
    She needs to be in contact with padme for a little while. or padme could leave holograms of herself saying she's sad.
     
  13. Darth Sin

    Darth Sin Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 1999
    Here again is how I think this could be wrapped up with Amidala actually dying in EP III

    Now here are those two things that could validate why Leia could actually remember her mother, and her being sad and beautiful

    "Through the Force many things you will see, the past, the future, old friends long gone"Yoda-ROTJ

    "The Force runs strong in your family"Yoda-ROTJ


    So through the Force one can see the past and old friends(and family possibly)long gone, and in this case it would be Leia seeing and remembering her mother.

    But also, we were told that the Force runs strong in the Skywalker family, and it appears to some degree that in AOTC we are being given that the Force is strong with Amidala, though she is not a Jedi.

    Take into account that Leia being very strong Force-sensitive even at birth as Jedi children would be anyway and along with their Midichlorian test this is why they are chosen to become Jedi hopefuls. So as others have said, Amidala would have more of a chance to look upon Leia and become in tune with her feelings and even her beauty, as opposed to Luke who would be taken away from her immediately as any Jedi baby would anyway to avoid any chance of a bond or memory.

    So with Leia spending a little more time with her mother, the images of her face and the feelings would be implanted into this very Force-sensitive baby.

    So when Luke asks her about her mother, through the Force she can see the imprints of Amidala's face and feelings as though it was happening at that moment. And imagine the depth of sadness Amidala will have though holding Leia when having to let go of Luke and dealing with the loss of Anakin.

    What am I saying?? The Force as Yoda says enables you to see the "past" and old friends(and family)long gone. And I do believe the Force can help one recall images and feelings even when one is a baby(why do you think the Jedi children are taken so early in the first place).

    Remember that in ROTJ, Leia is asked to remember her mother by Luke, and Luke says he has no memory of her. Why might this be if Amidala dies in EP III??

    I believe it is because Luke is chosen to become a Jedi some day, and Leia was intended to go with Amidala, but she will be killed shortly thereafter, she may not even make it to Alderaan!!!!! [face_shocked] She could be killed on the way, but baby Leia is saved by Jar Jar possibly! :D But nevertheless Leia goes to Bail Organa as intended and is adopted. There is nothing in the films that substantiate that Amidala spent any time on Alderaan.

    Lastly, remember that the Force enables Leia to come to know that Luke is her brother.

    "I've always known"


    Darth Sin! :cool:
     
  14. Tiershon_Fett

    Tiershon_Fett Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    You can be regressed back to the day you were born. It's been done, with the adult repeating situations, and voices from the nurses the day of their birth. It's all recorded. If Padme died in Leia's presence, then I think Leia would subconsciously remember. If Padme was sobbing her eyes out, from giving Leia up, I think Leia would remember that too.
     
  15. Spitsweet

    Spitsweet Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2002
    I have always felt like Leia would be present when Padme dies...I always have the image of Padme and Leia in a ship, en route to Alderaan, but the ship is attacked and Padme hides Leia and she is killed by saving her daughter's life....the ship then goes to Alderaan with safe baby Leia on board with the droids and Jar Jar !
     
  16. GLucasUSC

    GLucasUSC Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2002
    Well we're kind of going around in circles cause finally people are rushing to this topic who have the same feelings I had. For the most part we had the dunces posting for 5 straight pages about blah's blah's and more blah's.

    And yes ShadowJedi it is logical. Those that dont see things my way on this topic are dunces. Fortuinately there is a growing climate of people that do understand what I've been trying to say ever since I posted this topic. So back off woman (and change your icon).
     
  17. Grilled-Sarlacc

    Grilled-Sarlacc Former Head Admin star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2001
    And you're gone.
     
  18. -Neuromancer-

    -Neuromancer- Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    I kind of dig shadowjedi's icon.
     
  19. ShadowJedi05

    ShadowJedi05 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2002
    *murmurs* well... at least he didn't call me "girl"...

    *flashes a grin at Neuromancer* thanks
     
  20. Mnemosyne

    Mnemosyne Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 11, 2002
    I personally, like the idea of Padmé soon after child birth but, I also like the idea of her "dieing" (maybe faking her death, I don't know) and being forced to say goodbye to Leia. Ah hell, I don't know, everyone's got such good ideas!
     
  21. chrischris716

    chrischris716 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    i agree that padme would probably die before leia is 4-5 years old. but i am still not really convinced that padme dies in ep3. leia did say that padme died when she was very young, not when she was born.

    on a sidenote, if luke is taken immediately away, why isn't leia? she certainly should have enough midichlorians to be a jedi. why isn't she taken away to be trained at a later date?

    btw i like shadowjedi's icon as well
     
  22. -Neuromancer-

    -Neuromancer- Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    leia did say that padme died when she was very young, not when she was born.

    Yeah, but she could be simply relaying what she was told. Leia didn't seem to recall anything definite about her. Nor did it seem like she was told much.

    Myself, i'm leaning towards an extended Voyage. It's happened before in the Saga. Who knows just how long it takes to get between the stars, after all. The trip where the falcon limped from Hoth to Bespin seemed like quite a bit longer that one might think.

    After all, most ALL of Luke's Jedi training took place during that trip and their stay on Bespin. There's no way Luke could have stacked up to Vader even a LITTLE with a three week crash course in Jedi. Vader is supposed to be this big bad ass and he gets hit in a fight by this young punk with a merit badge in Dueling? (though he could have been trained SOME by Ben on the trip to Alderaan in ANH, but that's a comparable time at best. The EU states that Alderaan isn't far from Coruscant, in it's maps, and for lack of anything better i'll go aheah and use that as a reference. A trip to Alderaan would take about as long as a trip from Tatooine to Coruscant. Anakin was 9 when he left, and he was 9 going on 10 when he got there)

    After the Falcon's escape from sluggo the wonderworm, Han did say it was "Pretty far" to Bespin, "but i think we can make it." How far is "Pretty far"? And how long does it take to go "pretty far" with the Falcon's engines acting up.

    It could have taken anywhere from a month to six months (top end, but this is still short compared to oceanic voyages Humans have undertaken in real live). Vader would not have had a problem with persuing the Falcon for that length of time, since he was led to believe that his son was on it ("He's not after you, he's after someone called Skywalker."), but even if he was aware Luke was on the Falcon he still chased it because it was the key to finding Luke. One week, six months, a year, it's all the same to Vader when it comes to finding Luke.

    They didn't stay at Cloud City very long because Lando tells Han that Vader and Fett arrived right before he did. Something tells me Darth Vader isn't going to wait long before hatching his plan. This means that a week at most passed with them in Vader's custody before Vader started torturing the Pair to Lure Luke to him through the force. Then who knows how long of a travel it would be for Luke to arrive at Bespin.

    So we have at least one example of a pretty big chunk of time going by (And, based on it, more than one).

    Padme could have Leia and Luke, and be forced to decide between the two. Keep one, give one up. They are the last hope and must be separated. Luke goes with ben, and maybe Yoda, Leia stays with her. Padme then hit's the spacelanes looking for a hideout and they are on an extended voyage while the action shifts to the jedi and Sith for a little bit. Something happens and Padme is forced out of hiding, she dies a Hero (maybe giving her life to save her Daughter/son/the fledgling rebellion, whatever GL was to come up with (i dunno, that's why i'm not making SW movies).

    I'm not trying to write the script here, just laying out an example of how an extended magic carpet ride could explain things. Leia is with Padme for 6 months or so aboard ship, maybe more, while a Montage or something rolls of the Empire taking over the place. Months pass in minutes as it were.

    It can be argued that it's happened before in a SW film (but no Montage in the saga until the end of the special edition of RotJ).
     
  23. -Neuromancer-

    -Neuromancer- Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    on a sidenote, if luke is taken immediately away, why isn't leia? she certainly should have enough midichlorians to be a jedi. why isn't she taken away to be trained at a later date?

    That question stands whether Padme lives or dies. Either way Luke was taken right away.

    "I have no memory of my Mother. I never knew her."
     
  24. Tricky

    Tricky Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2001
    A force-sensitive baby can remember her mother's face, and Leia is force sensitive. That is the answer!

    Listen to Tricky, we know what's up.
     
  25. -Neuromancer-

    -Neuromancer- Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Really all we need is a shot of padme looking lovingly but sadly into Leia's eyes.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.