Politics as (un)usual: Now discussing the Dubai Ports World Deal

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by KnightWriter, Dec 21, 2005.

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  1. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    I know that legally the United States or GWB isn't guilty of murder, based on all of the laws. But if you look at just what constitutes murder in this state or any other, dropping a bomb that kills innocent people certainly counts.
  2. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Actually, it wouldn't. First of all, considering that the bombs were dropped by military personnel in the course of approved military operations, the only US laws that would enter into the picture would be the UCMJ. Even then, it's not a violation of the UCMJ because it was in the course of a legally authorized war (see the UNSCRs authorizing the use of force against Iraq, dating back to the Gulf War), and it was also accepted after the fact by the UN. You would be stretching by quite a bit to call it murder.

    Unless, of course, you are serious about trying to label it as murder. If all you're looking for is emotional grandstanding, then you can call it a ham sandwich as easily as you can call it murder.

    But what does all of that have to do with the price of oil in Dubai?

    Kimball Kinnison
  3. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    The neo conservatives got exactly what they deserved ( well, not exactly - I think they deserve alot worse ) with the public backlash concerning this deal.
  4. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Kimball, I stated it wasn't technically murder under U.S. or State law. But if regular person was bombing a house, not meaning to kill anyone, but did so, they would be guilty of murder. I mean, I'm sure under Nazi law, Hitler wasn't guilty of murder either. Now before you flip out, I'm just trying to establish that sovereign immunity might be all well and fine, might be valid, but you have to think outside the box sometimes to hear what a poster is saying.

    However, the fact that you could simply toss aside the deaths of thousands of innocent people and call it a ham sandwhich is simply disgusting to me.

  5. BenduHopkins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    Go ahead and call it that all you want. It just shows how far off the deep end you have gone.

    Kimball Kinnison


    Yeah, "look at that crazy guy in the corner who thinks Bush misled people into a war that killed innocent people!" Hahaha. Whatever world you wanna live in is fine with me.
  6. DARTH-SHREDDER Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2005
    star 5
    I wonder how this will figure into W's public figure and the politics sorrounding him.

    Bush Administration tries to rewrite science

    Just watch the complentary video on the web page. Just like the guy said (can't remember his exact name), they're rewriting science in order to further their own agenda. Unbelievable. Not to mention the fact that they tried to make everything uncertain by changing "is" to "may be", they even outright lied and added in false conclusions along the lines of "scientists don't know enough about global warming to do anything about it".

    I'd like to see Mr44 wiggle his way out of this one and defend the Bush Administration.
  7. Espaldapalabras Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2005
    star 5
    States are not individuals, and if you tried to apply individual morality to every state decision, you would find that pretty much everything a state does would be considered "illegal."

    The liberals will not win the debate by trying to label this as an "unjust war" because when you compare Bush and Saddam, the only one that looks like Hitler is Saddam. Bush may be a lot of things, but he isn't a genocidal dictator, and as much as the extreme left tries they are going to continue to look crazy until they stop acting crazy. What we need now is a good opposition party, but both parties have failed the American public.

    This port deal was a horrible political move by the Bush administration, but I don't buy that it had anything to do with security. It sounded scary, but the security threat was minimal, by stopping it we alienated allies, and we continue to ignore the larger question.
  8. BenduHopkins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    States are not individuals, and if you tried to apply individual morality to every state decision, you would find that pretty much everything a state does would be considered "illegal."

    But neither states nor individuals have the legal right to pre-emptively invade another country without proof of threat.
  9. BenduHopkins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    What we need now is a good opposition party, but both parties have failed the American public.

    You sound like many others who used to back the Bush team, but are still unwilling to admit the left was right all along. Too sane to back Bush. Too conservative to back the Dems. You're in limbo. But maybe you're wrong about the Dems. Maybe they're your best bet for reforming the US and protecting us from terrorism.
  10. PadmeSkye Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 1
    I think Bush has his heart in the right place, but he's an idiot. I do agree with the Iraq war decision...that's pretty much it. Hate his politics in general. Not a Republican.

    As for the ports deal, I have a hard time believing anybody can be as stupid to believe that even the American public would go along with something like that.
  11. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Uh-oh, spaghetti-O. Yeah, GWB seems to be getting it from more angles than Jenna Jameson.

    EDIT: Before she was married.
  12. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    I posted this before Gonk and I looked for the thread, but thought it'd be buried too far down to be able to find somewhat efficiently.
  13. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    FID, it's probably better to keep this in the Plame thread. At least that way, everyone can engage in concentrated Presidential bashing, and who around here doesn't like that?


  14. Gonk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    At least that way, everyone can engage in concentrated Presidential bashing, and who around here doesn't like that?

    I'm guessing... mr44?
  15. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    Mr44? What has he done for me lately?
  16. Gonk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    Wasn't he the 44th guy to... do... something...not-so-conservative?

    Ah, the rumor escapes me ;)
  17. lorn_zahl Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2002
    star 4
    Ya know I didn't have any opposition to this deal until I found that Dubai boycots Israel in it's entirety.

    I'd also object to any cultural reasons for disagreeing with the deal. Just because they're Arab doesn't mean we automaticaly assume they're going to stab us in the back.

    Besides, it wouldn't be in their interest to do so unless they wanted M1A1's rolling down their streets.

    IMO we should have let the deal go through as long as Dubai lifted it's boycott of our ally, only fair in my oppinion.

    It was also entertaining to see Hillary jump against this without any good reason, I'm sure she wouldn't have objected if it were Australia running the ports then again she disagrees with just about everything the administration does so it's hard to guess.
  18. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
  19. LORDeron_MAULer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2003
    star 4
    The UAE is one of the West's closest allies in the region so that they would betray the US is illogical. I found it kinda sad that so many people are readily willing to believe that they will too. If they believe that one of the most liberal governments and one of the friendliest nations in the Arab World will attack them, then who will they trust?

    And they have their reasons for boycotting Israel. The Occupation of Palestine didn't go over well in the Arab World.
  20. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    I really wasn't sure where to put this, but Russia is saying Cheney's remarks have started a NEW COLD WAR. And there was also a story that Russia fed info, some that later turned out to be false, to Saddam Hussein during the first few days of the Iraq war. What is going on over there?

    Link
  21. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    but Russia is saying Cheney's remarks have started a NEW COLD WAR.

    And just as shocking, it's been determined that water is wet.
  22. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Russia has been a pain in the neck lately, but don't you think they are over-exaggerating?
  23. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    That's exactly what I think.

    Sometimes, when a baby won't stop crying, jangling something shiny, like keys, ususally diverts their attention and will get them to stop.
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