Rogue One Rank Rogue One among Star Wars films

Them talking is a breather from the exciting action scene. I would also point out that it was an important scene, since the friendship the two develop become a primary motivation for them as the movie goes on. Also, the really important part of the gas leak scene is what the character's say (or don't say) while trying to fix it.

I did like the Rogue One characters, but I'm not sure, outside of Jyn, how many of them felt like they got the more a scratch of the surface to what made them tick. The "trust goes both ways" and "following orders" scenes are really good; I'm not saying that the movie didn't give the characters any depth, but for many of them, it was harder to track. I wasn't sure I understood why Cassian chose to stand down from the assassination initially, for example. In a lot of cases, I felt like I was needing to guess what was going on in their heads (one reason I liked the novelization, which answered a lot of questions like that). In TFA, I felt like understood what the characters were thinking and how they progressed without any trouble.

 

The characters in RO are some of my favourite of all the SW films. Going back 2 or 3 years to when the first spin-off was announced as "a heist film" in which the heroes were going to steal the DS plans, I had assumptions back then that the film would be a bit like Ocean's 12 or Suicide Squad in which half the film would be taken up by the Rebellion tracking down bounty hunters, thieves and mercenaries across the galaxy to put together their "top team" to pull off the stunt. THANK GOODNESS we didn't get that!!!! It would have been predictable, shallow and populated with cliched stereotypes. In RO we got characters who were conflicted for all sorts of reasons which made them so interesting. I love Jyn, Cassian, Saw, Krennic, Galen, Chirrup, Baze, Bohdi - all had conflicts they were wrestling with, both internally and externally. And we got a film that was pretty much A New Hope Part 1!!!!!

 

I loved RO, absolutely loved it. Building up to it, my expectations were low and the rumors about reshoots didn't help. I read Catalyst, which got me in the mood, and then I saw the film opening day. It was amazing, seeing a Star Wars film that could rank with the OT. There is so much care and love put into this movie, it's crazy. It felt like real Star Wars to me. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but I still loved it.

My vote goes to 3rd best.

 

It should be an important scene given the importance of the characters friendship buit again I don't think it is, Abrams plays it for a rather cheesey laugh and theres really no substance to it at all, they literally only exchange names.

I think exactly the opposite, in TFA we get some original intensions introduced for Rey(waiting for her family) and Finn(rebelling against the FO) yet these seem to be quickly cast aside and after that point I don't think we get much idea of what makes them tick, the film tries to tell us Rey and Han have a surrogate father/daughter relationship yet I see very little evidence of that onscreen and what Rey thinks of the force, Luke or Kylo isn't really given any depth at all. To me theres very little to understand in TFA because the characters are being reactive the majority of the time, stuff is happening to them rather than there making important choices. I think it depends much more on personality, Rey and Finn are I think for the most part well(if broadly) acted giving a good emotional response to situations, just not one with much depth to it.

In Rogue One I think the situation with deciding not to shoot Galen is well setup, Cassian is shown to be capable of ruthless acts early on yet we see his response about being asked to use Jyn to help kill her father isn't entirely positive, then we see him get to know Jyn on Jedha including her being selfless and his saving her a number of times. Then most obviously we have Jyn telling Cassian about Galens message and true intensions yet not having definitive proof of it meaning he's having to trust a daughters word on her father to disobey orders.

 

"Cheesy?" Really? Well, here's the thing. We know that both of them were very much alone in their own worlds (multiple books), something that we can see in the movie from Rey's "day in the life" scene and something that we know was eating at her. The literature makes a point that Finn was unique in not being an unquestioning solider and never felt he fit in. From his confession at the bar, having someone that genuinely respected him was also new. Them becoming friends filled a hole they had in their lives. The script itself noted that it was an important turning point: "They're just staring at each other now, seeing something odd and weird and wonderful -- two people totally inexperienced in joy and camaraderie." If you watch the movie, this is the first scene that either of them them have actually been happy period. So, I would't say cheesy. A lighter moment to decompress after the action scene, sure.

As far as swapping names goes, it might not seem like much, but it is the first time that Finn actively uses the new identity he was given, taking ownership of it, I guess. Between the script and the Finn's Story novelization, we also know that he was about to tell Rey the truth about being a defecting stormtrooper before the leak interrupted him, for what it's worth.

Those actually stay in play for quite some time. Finn's acting against the First Order is the only kind of thing he ever does. It starts as wanting to get away from them, which is a constant driving force through the first couple acts ("We need to get as far away from the First Order as we can! We go back to Jakku, we die!" "Alright, between us, I'm not with the Resistance, okay? I'm just trying to get away from the First Order -- but you tell us where your base is, I'll get there first -- deal?!" You don't know a thing about me. Where I'm from. What I've seen. You don't know the First Order like I do. They'll slaughter us. We all need to run."). After Takodana, he's actively trying to organize a rescue for Rey, the reasons for this form of rebellion on his part should be obvious.

Rey's need for family (biological or found) informs her motivations from beginning to end ("I need to get back to Jakku." "If you were [offering me a job], I'd be flattered. But I have to get home...I've already been away too long." "Don't go." "The belonging you seek is not behind you. It is ahead." "We'll see each other again. I believe that."). Heck, the moment she actually fully decides to embrace the Force is when someone she cares for is in danger.

I kinda agree with you, however the movie does show that Rey considered Han a hero of sorts before meeting him. That can be seen how she reacts when she realizes who he is and pulls out some information about his past career. She also looks really pleased when she fixes the ship by "bypassing" the compressor and is clearly disappointed when Han doesn't seem impressed. She's also pretty clearly more than just flattered that he was "thinking" about offering her a job on the ship, too. So, was it as fleshed out as, say, the surrogate father/daughter relationship between Wolverine and Rogue in the X-Men movies? No, but when you factor in that Rey was actively wanting to have people in her life, it makes sense that she might see that as a possibility.

We know that Rey knew a few stories about the Jedi and Luke ("I thought he was a myth." "The Jedi were real?"), although that doesn't seem to be her biggest interest in life (she seems to perk up more when Finn claims to be a Resistance member and clearly is a fan of Han Solo the smuggler). She has a very visceral reaction to the Force vision and what that means for her. Her not wanting anything to do with it is made clear, which contrasts when she changes her mind.

Since she didn't know Luke or Kylo personally -- beyond being a mythical character who turned out to be real and a monster who hurt her and the most important people in her life -- it would make sense that her thoughts on them wouldn't be as nuanced; she still forming those opinions and ideas.

The adventure began to get kicked off when Finn didn't fire ("But my first battle, I made a choice. I wasn't going to kill for them. So I ran.") and subsequently chose to help Poe Dameron escape the First Order. He chose to come back on Takodana after the First Order's attacks began rather than just leave with the pirates ("The First Order, they've done it. Where's Rey?"). He chose to go on the mission to Starkiller Base ("That's where my friend was taken -- I've got to get there, fast.") and share what he knew, which gave the Resistance what they needed to shut it down.

Rey gets involved because she consistently decides to help BB-8 after rescuing him from Teedo ("Actually, the droid's not for sale." "[Finn's] going to get you home. We both will." "What about BB-8? We're not done yet. We shave to get him to your base."). She was found by Kylo Ren partially because of what she decided to do ("You have to keep going, stay out of sight, I'll try to fight 'em off."). While somewhat limited in choices, she managed to make a partial escape because she chose to resist Kylo's mind reading and experimented with the mind trick. She initially chose to reject the Jedi path and then later chose to accept it instead (the Rey's Story novelization also states that it was important to her that it was her choice to go to Luke, not just do it because she was supposed to). And, her last line in the movie is her promising to come back for her friend. (It's also worth noting that many of her decisions about trying to go back home are because of self-deception.)

(Actually, thematically, the primary characters -- Rey, Finn, and Han -- are all running away in one way or another, and the movie's climax is centered around when they decide to stop running and make their stand.)

His killing the informant who can't escape sets up the idea that he's willing to do what needs to be done, even if he doesn't like it. There's no suggestion that he would not follow through. He doesn't protest the actual order. It seemed like something was missing to foreshadow it all.

And he still kept her in the dark about his real mission and went with full preparation to carry it out. (The novelization does support your reading, but I wasn't exactly getting it from the movie.)

I didn't think he believed her until after the botched raid. He's all businesslike about the job up till the point he's setting up the shot.

 

I gave it 3rd place.

 

This 100%! That's how you know it's a damn good film!

I gave it third... It destroys the PT and is better than TFA (which was a solid effort)

But as far as the OT is concerned - Damn it's hard to rank this film in amongst those masterpieces We have had decades of watching and re-watching those films a million times... We have grown up with the characters and dreamt about their pasts, their futures, side adventures etc etc. RO is almost at a disadvantage!

ROTJ>ESB>RO>ANH>Caravan of Courage ...but all by the slimmest of margins! And I could change my mind tomorrow haha

I've said this before and I'll say it again... The reason RO should end up on the same pedestal as the OT is because it followed the rules! Real locations for planets, good acting, good characters with relationships I believed, subtle humour, minimal cgi (or if it was used more than I think - Damn good cgi) but number 1 to me - The aesthetic!

RO also had concepts and designs that surpassed some in the OT...good job! And (never thought I would say this) some memorable Vader moments on par with the OT/slightly better. Wow.

 

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Rougue One
5. Return of the Jedi
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. The Phantom Menece
8. Attack of the Clones

Well can't wait for episode 8 to see how it fits in this list.
And see it................almost forgot that important deatail.

 

Color me very surprised at ROTJ being your favorite of the OT

I mean, I agree! I just didn't expect that I guess

 

How come? There are a few things I would change but not much... I acknowledge that ESB is the superior film - But Jedi is my fav and always has been

 

Jedi has a certain "feel" to it that I absolutely love. It makes me sad Lucas never went along with his original plan of two trilogies in the OT era, because I think the following movies would resemble Jedi in a lot of ways.

 

I just read your post in the "what would you change thread" and it was all stuff from ROTJ? Or am I mistaken?

 

Everyday I still think about what other films they could do in this era...EVERYDAY! haha

Here's hoping one day we get a film set between ANH and ESB - Three years to play around with!!

Darkslayer - You are correct! I would take the film I love and make it even better! Wookies instead of Ewoks, Luke and Leia not brother and sister, re-insert the sandstorm scene and Boba Fett getting a Jango style death! Isn't it universally accepted that these issues fixed up would take the film from a 9.5 to a 10??

 

I agree! If you're interested in that era, I recommend the novel Twilight Company and Weapon of a Jedi as well as the new marvel comics. They're 100% canon, so it's almost like seeing another movie taking place right after ANH!

 

Ah! Alright haha, I feel similarly on ROTS

I don't know if I'd change ROTJ, but I would be interested to read Lucas's original story for ANH-Ep 12, and why he decided to change it (I heard he was just exhausted).

 

https://www.inverse.com/article/151...-for-star-wars-episode-vii-and-boba-fett-reve

Warning: Reading this article may cause feelings of What-If Syndrome!

 

I'm not a huge Boba fan but dang that wuda been cool.

But hey, if that happened we probably wouldn't have gotten Indiana Jones!

 

I would've ranked it best....BUT IT HAD NO JEDI

 

According to this poll, there is very interesting data:

---20% of responding fans rank it as one of their Top 2 Star Wars films EVER.

---68.2% of responding fans rank it among the top half of all Star Wars movies.

Those are eye-popping statistics. I agree with others who say that Rogue One will continue to grow in popularity among the community due to 2nd viewings, and will someday be perceived as TESB of this generation.

 

I hope, but it will never surpass ESB in my opinion.

I think if we got just a little more character development, it would take the cake as the next ESB.

 

Snax Rebo

Nothing will ever pass up TESB. That is Star Wars really became Star Wars as it moved passed just being a popcorn flick. Vader's reveal is perhaps the most dramatic moment in film history, certainly in the Top Ten. I think we tend to forget how shocking that was to audiences. Many just assume that Vader was lying it was so shocking hence why Lucas put in early on in ROTJ that Yoda confirmed it to be true.

 

I'd argue that ANH and ROTS passes ESB up a long time ago. ANH had the right mix of characters and action. There's really nothing to criticize about it. ROTS, while having weak moments, had a lot of strong scenes and material and really did the impossible of making Vader's becoming Darth Vader work. Nothing in ESB really matches the best stuff in ROTS. I also find that TFA is also proving to have more re-watch value than ESB.

Now, I'm not saying that ESB is a bad movie; it deserves the kudos its been given and was the right movie to make as a sequel to ANH. Good cinema, no doubt. But, it doesn't have the spark that some of the others do.

 

WebLurker

I barely remember ROTS and I happen to find it to be the best out of the prequels by far. It was good but not great. As for TFA, there way too many warts in it for it be considered a truly great movie. It was a solid movie but there was really nothing truly memorable in it. I saw it three times in the theater and by the third time I was looking at my watch towards the end. Not like ANH or TESB but what does. That is why those movies are true classics. The OT is the only ones I can watch over and over again. The others I only as part of a marathon or if my kids ask to watch it.

 

Fair enough.

Like what?

Can't say I've ever had the "looking at the watch" experience with any of the movies, but that's me.

To be totally honest, ANH, TFA, and maybe ROTS are the only Star Wars movies I'd ever put in just for the sake of watching (maybe R1, too). Everything else needs to be in a Star Wars movie marathon for me to want to watch it. Now, I love marathoning the series in chronological order (I do it annually), but that's how it goes for me.