Saga Revenge of the Sith VS. Return of the Jedi

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darkslayer, Dec 9, 2013.

?

Which is better

Episode III: Revenge of the Sith 26 vote(s) 63.4%
Episode VI: Return of the Jedi 15 vote(s) 36.6%
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  1. The Supreme Chancellor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    This is such a hard choice! ROTS sets the stage perfectly for the OT, but ROTJ wraps up the entire series perfectly. I only voted on the side of ROTS because all the filler in ROTJ waters it down too much.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    I didn't have to think about this one.

    ROTJ is the movie that changed me from a casual Star Wars fan to a hard-core one. It has Han and Leia, Yoda passing on peacefully after telling Luke that he needed no more training, the revelation of long-lost twins, great dialogue, Endor, a legion of the Emperor's best men getting their asses kicked by 3PO-worshipping teddy bears, and Vader's redemption. "Just once let me see you with my own eyes." :_| No matter how many times I watch that, I tear up.

    ROTS, OTOH, is absolutely ****ing awful after the first half hour to 45 minutes. There are very few movies that I absolutely can't watch, and ROTS is one of them, I always either turn it off or leave the room at the ruminations scene. Lucasfilm forgot to add the missing scene right before Anakin goes into the Council chambers, the one where he goes to the medical ward and gets his frontal lobotomy. It apparently happened at the same time that Padme was in the Galactic Senate Medical Center getting her backbone removed. I love these two characters in the first two prequel movies but ROTS did its best to ruin both of them. He went monumentally ****ing stupid, and she became a codependent wuss.
    Carbon1985 and Frank T. like this.
  3. Frank T. Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    At the beginning or end of that scene?
  4. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    Right before he leaves the chambers.

    Because sitting there and muttering "Don't do it you dumbass!" is a waste of time.
    MOC Yak Face and Frank T. like this.
  5. Frank T. Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
  6. WriterMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    These films are nearly equal in quality. I will say that. So I really can understand someone leaning one way or the other.

    Let me draw an analogy, if I may. These films are complete opposites of each other, if you think about it. In aesthetic, style, heart, and soul. ROTS is bitter, dark and depressing. ROTJ is fun, light-hearted and empowering. ROTS is definitely a nihilistic film of betrayal, loss and sorrow whereas ROTJ is a more cheerful story of family, love and redemption.

    They sort of remind me of the Tim Burton Batman film in 1989, and the Dark Knight. Fans of that series really do disagree as to which one's better. The same thing can be said about those films. They're both Batman, they both have the Joker, and they both take on the Mob. But they're both so much of their time that they contrast each other in a way that's unbearably noticeable. In both of these cases, the newer of the films is the more nihilistic one, and the older one is the more upbeat.

    Which one is better? It's left up to personal preference. Me? I'd go with Return of the Jedi. Why? The same reason I'd probably quicker watch Batman 1989 than The Dark Knight. While it can be argued that The Dark Knight is a better film, it is also true that the film is much harder to watch at times.

    In the end, I'm in it for the good time. :)
    Carbon1985 and Frank T. like this.
  7. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    Made it just for you :p
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  8. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    [IMG]
    See it's the opposite for me. ROTS gets better every time I see it. The only movies that have come close to passing it on my favorite movie list are Return of the King and The Dark Knight. But ROTS is still the best :)
  9. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    ROTK surpasses ROTS for all time fav movies IMO
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  10. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Now imagine if ROTK and ROTS had a baby...
    Darkslayer and Jarren_Lee-Saber like this.
  11. Han Burgundy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 3
    ^^^Thats why I want an Old Republic movie. Imagine the battle of Pelennor fields.... with lightsabers.
    Darkslayer and Jarren_Lee-Saber like this.
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    Frodo's IQ would drop 100 points, Samwise would lose the will to live, and Gandalf would hide in a cave for 20 years.
  13. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6

    Would become greatest movie ever made
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  14. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Anakin and Obi-Wan would surf elephants while dueling while Arwen loses the will to live.
  15. MOC Yak Face Old Films' Curator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4

    [face_laugh]
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  16. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    As far as providing the better conclusion to their respective trilogy, I think ROTJ did that better. But really, the only part of that movie that was REALLY NEEDED to do so were the throne room scenes.

    In the larger regard of which film is better, my vote would go to ROTS.

    In ROTJ, Jabba's Palace and the Dune Sea sequences were largely fluff, IMO. Fun, but really drawn out when the only thing of any importance was merely getting Han back into the story. The Empire decides to build another Death Star, and while the space battle was far higher in energy in ROTJ than ANH, it was essentially a retread of what the films had already covered. And much of Endor to me, prior to the battle at least, was just slow and boring. Seeing the cast skulk around on Endor in camo was just far less entertaining to me than the adventures of those same characters in previous movies, whether it be on the Death Star or eluding the Empire in the Millennium Falcon.

    It was really only the Throne Room scenes of ROTJ that I absolutely loved.

    With ROTS, there were still flaws for sure, and enough IMO - specifically in regards to Anakin's turn - that it seemed like a rushed conclusion to Anakin's fall and the rise of the Empire, but looking at the entire film as far as entertainment value, I preferred it immensely more than ROTJ.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  17. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Same here. I love Star Wars, but I love LOTR more.

    Best thing EVER!
    But Christopher Lee would still go from a good guy to an evil guy and get killed. [face_laugh]

    I'm throwing my money at the screen but NOTHING IS HAPPENING

    1. Why would that happen? The main characters of ROTS aren't stupid! Just emotion-ruled (like normal people)
    2. Arwen actually lost the will to live after Aragorn died. In the LOTR Appendices after Aragorn dies, she goes out into the forest, lays down under a tree and dies.
    3. Lots of characters did that throughout the history. Think Gondolin! And Elrond is already doing that. Why do you think Imladris (Rivendell) is called "the hidden valley".

    You've been OUTNERDED! :cool: :-B:p
    Darkslayer likes this.
  18. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Finduilas (Denethor's wife) did as well, but she's only mentioned briefly in the novel.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  19. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    @Jarren_Lee-Saber :

    1. I don't believe normal people are "emotion ruled," in fact, I believe that it's a tendency that all people should strive against and many if not most adults successfully do. Otherwise the unemployment rate would be higher than it already is because nobody could hold down a job using as little rational thought as the characters in ROTS did.

    And if believing that your healthy wife is going to die in childbirth in spite of being told by her medical droid that she's healthy, believing that killing small children will keep her alive because an old dude who has been kissing your ass says so, and then choking your wife after claiming you'll do anything to save her, isn't stupid...I don't know what is.

    2 and 3. I was actually aware of both of those so no, not outnerded. The only thing that makes it better is that Arwen was old and therefore "broken heart syndrome" might actually fit her as a diagnosis. I have far more tolerance for it when we're talking about an old person losing a lifelong companion than I do with a strong 28-year-old woman who suddenly believes she can't function due to "sadness" because her husband turned out to be not what she believed.
  20. Visivious Drakarn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2013
    star 2
    There is a reason why ROTS is first on my SW scale and ROTJ last. They both represent climax of their trilogies, a conclusion of stories developed in previous two movies that seal the destinies of our heroes.
    ROTS is a very fast paced film, there's a lot of things going on and it relies on previous two movies to fill some gaps in characters actions. To me, it's greatest virtue is fantastic depiction of Anakin's soul. As I said, with previous two movies in mind, you can really understand Anakin's reasons for doing what he did and what he does to gain more power. With other stories going on - clonetroopers turning on the Jedi, Palpatine's rise to ultimate power, Kenobi and Vader fighting on Mustafar, the birth of Darth Vader and those four beautiful scenes at the end - mother, father, daughter and son - plus that feeling at the end of the movie, that everything that you've seen in the PT is now dead, destroyed or ceased to exist in that way, makes me feel melancholic. Wonderful movie!
    ROTJ is the most action oriented movie of the OT, it's final part - the DS battle and Vader's redemption - represent perfect ending to the saga and the tragedy of Darth Vader. What, in some way, ruins the quality of the movie are scenes on Tatooine and Ewoks. Saving Han had nothing with the trilogy main storyline and Leia in bikini seems a bit like emergency solution. While Ewoks part had a good intent, it's very poorly executed. Bows and arrows to kill a stormtrooper? C'mon! TESB lifted the bar after ANH, but ROTJ failed to do the same after TESB.
  21. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    Good lord, more revisionism by Lucas that duped another SW fan. :rolleyes: The original trilogy was all about Luke, Leia, and Han, and a big theme throughout that trilogy was saving friends, and how far they would go through it. This whole 'Tragedy of Darth Vader' storyline was NEVER apart of the Original SW Trilogy, as the redemption angle was ham-fisted into the ROTJ, and it was a subplot to the bigger story in the movie about beating the Empire.

    I can't force you to like the Jabba Scenes in ROTJ when they save Han, because its a matter of opinion. But I can tell you that you are watching the movie in the wrong context if you think that saving Han had nothing to do with the main storyline. When Lucas decided to make the PT, that is when he started talking about his new storyline he had for the movies called, "The Tragedy of Darth Vader," and it goes to show that he has hurt the context of the OT movies because I hear comments like yourself who think they are a total waste, yet most people loved Han, Luke, Leia's friendship storyline from 1977-83.
  22. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    And don't forget that Han had Greedo confront him, Han talked to Jabba, said 10,000 to Luke and Obi-Wan, did a lot in the movie for the money, mentioned the Death Mark, was sent to Jabba in Carbonite etc. The Jabba palace scenes are important in the scheme of things.
    Carbon1985 likes this.
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    Saving Han was important because Han was awesome and needed to be saved.

    I actually have no problem with "the tragedy of Darth Vader", but two lines of dialogue told that much, much better than ROTS did:

    "It's too late for me, son."
    "Then my father is truly dead."

    Those lines made me sad, and made the redemption much sweeter.

    The Dumb***ery of Darth Vader, on the other hand, just makes me annoyed and want to watch another movie.
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  24. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Perhaps the evil Annie in ROTS was actually an imposter? Good Annie is actually hiding.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  25. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Touche. Just pointing out Han was important in the OT with his plot. Han did deserve to be rescued because he is awesome.
    Han Burgundy likes this.
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