ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

My point is that like or not, those films are all very successful commercially.

 

Oh, I am not denying that

 

The Force theme was used perfectly in that scene and the imagery is gorgeous.

It's just laughable to me that people think their story is over, but then again the same fans perpetuating that are those who were convinced Rey was a Skywalker or Solo, Kylo wouldn't even get a backstory and the trailer was just misdirection. Don't let anyone who was wrong for two years convince you of anything. After TLJ I trust my understanding of narrative structure more than ever because it wasn't insistent whining that won, it was symbolism, metaphor and film language. The textual evidence speaks louder than any naysayer ever can.



"I am more powerful than the Chancellor, I can overthrow him. And together you and I can rule the galaxy."
"It's time to let old things die. Snoke... Skywalker... the Sith... the Jedi... the rebels. Rey... I want you to join me. We can rule together and bring a new order to the galaxy."

 

LOL what? The Force Theme doesn't play in their last force bond. It's the "Kylo's lament" theme where he's regretful and kneeling broken on the floor. Force Theme plays in the hut scene after Rey's gasp and Kylo's touch. whoever argued that needs to watch the scene again!

 

Serious question if Reylo does not happen how disappointed would you guys who want that to happen be?

 

My arguement is that, from what I can see, you’re essentially claiming that Williams *did* put in a love theme but just did it verrryyyy subtly.

But that’s not Williams’ modus operandi. Romantic subtext gets a love theme. Not a super-secret, hidden love theme. An actual love theme.

You know how some claimed that a piece of the love theme for Romeo and Juliet was snuck in “The Abduction” in TFA? Nope - JW said in 2016 that he thinks Rey is Luke’s daughter, so he obviously saw zero romantic subtext. So what you’re saying is just super-subtle...may not be what you think it is.

 

People pointed out that Snoke’s theme and Plaguise theme sounded similar and look how that turned out.

 

There would be no Romeo and Juliet snuck into the Abduction because that would be music plagiarism. I know what sequence you're talking about, it's the brass sequence where there are two notes that sound similar.

And just because you assert something doesn't make it doctrine. It's just your opinion. Because there are a lot of people seeing how he is using the force theme in a different way here. The Force brought them together, so it is only fitting that their most intimate meeting is framed with that theme.

that said, I would love to sit down and read the score (and hope that the viola section isn't painfully boring. Mozart is boring for violas, and I love it when composers don't reduce us to the boring do-wop section of the symphony.)

 

The filmmakers really love to show them feeling the Force together. Their choker shots of pure ecstasy when they're letting the Force flow through them on the edge of the cliff on Starkiller base are unforgettable!




Man, there are so many incredible images from The Last Jedi I can't post yet. Kylo kneeling in front of Rey like a submissive knight before his disappointed queen, the elevator where they look each other up and down with intense desire (Rey can't take her eyes off his lips!) Honestly, I was never a huge perpetuator of Rey and Kylo's mutual attraction and instant infatuation in the interrogation, but it's just so obvious after The Last Jedi. One movie is one movie, two movies becomes a pattern and expecting that pattern to suddenly get retconned is just... wuhhhh?

Hell, JJ Abrams revealed in an interview in 2014 that they were going forward with a "different kind of love story" for this trilogy. Hearing that Kasdan was describing their bond as romantic/sexual when they were writing the script was just fantastic. I know not everything has been plotted in this trilogy and Rey and Kylo may end up being the only truly worthwhile element... but good gosh did they strike gold with these two.

 

It already happened. We don't know if the pair is endgame yet, but even in the event that their story ends in tragedy with Kylo sacrificing himself for the light (at the very least the last Skywalker is getting a heroic end), a tragic romance is still a romance.

 

Right? Like I still can't believe TLJ is real at this point. Basically got Reylo thrown in our faces, waaaaay more than I thought even possible. That elevator scene is hilarious, she gets so close to him I swear if the elevator stopped short, they'd bump noses. Two movies to set up one of the most epic romances ever, one left to resolve it

 

Right? I was very confused by this question... lol

I will say I myself am hoping for a happy ending (see my avatar), but yeah. Romeo and Juliet, Jon and Ygritte, Spike and Buffy, and Cathy and Heathcliffe all ended tragically, and no one is going to question their canon validity. You don’t tease a romance of that nature, only to never be addressed again. That isn’t how story telling works. Rey may have shut the door, but doors are meant to be reopened.

 

@Supreme Leader Rey and that was not my point in saying it's never a good idea to have star crossed lovers. In the end the characters lose out and you have a tragedy and I don't think anyone wants to walk out of Star Wars seeing it as a Tragedy.

The idea of Star crossed lovers has become passe over the years. I can point out so many stories that use it to the point of nauseous. And you know I can point out that in at least two of these stories the girl chose to go with another man. Casablanca has the lead go with her husband, and Wurthering had Catherine chose the other man who became her daughter's father because she was in love with him.

P.S. Screw Shakespeare in Love. That was one of the most insulting movies to the Bard outside of Anonymous in regard to showing how he treated his family. I give it props for the idea of how they show the plays being written. But BS that he didn't love his wife Anne, and BS that she wasn't someone who was busy probably running the business back home. She's not a Shrew, and I really hated they did that to her.

 

No, no, they argued that all their Force convos were silent (no music) & because a song plays in that last one it was a sign it was finished.

 

The imagery between them has been so awesome too. I was not expecting such artistic and bold decisions from LucasFilm.







Comparatively from Drive and Buffy the Vampire Slayer respectively:




I'm not going to go into any detail here but there are times when weapons aren't just weapons. You have to think about what the filmmakers are trying to say through mise-en-scene and visual symbolism.

There are SOOO many examples from TLJ that I can't post yet.

 

It has not already happened. If it did they would make it obvious no.

 

For those who think that a romantic connection has not yet been established between Rey and Kylo/Ben, can I ask what you need to see onscreen to think that there's been a romantic connection? (IMO, a mutual attraction between the two characters was established, and this attraction had definite romantic undertones.)

I'm genuinely curious--not trying to be snarky here. Do two characters need to kiss? Declare feelings for each other?

 

Very interesting, thanks for the info.

 

I too am curious for this answer.

I keep thinking of that candid Rian video where he says “It’s all in the movie.”

I myself as a Reylo fan loved it, but wasn’t shocked at all that he’d say that. It was the gods honest truth. Everyone I know in real life caught the romantic undercurrent between them. They’re all GA - they don’t post on forums and have no story preferences.

 

Man, the Jungian stuff is tremendous too. We get the shadow kneeling before the "Rey of light" in both TFA (interrogation) and TLJ (Falcon door slam). Third time's the charm, so next step is for him to rise to her level.

Wish we had more legal gifs/pics to post as examples. I couldn't believe my eyes in the theater, and still can't... they had the nerve to have him check her out when he agreed he was a monster, did you catch that? I was like, Rian... Not subtle, my dude. Villainous crush to the max.

 

I don't even think that a kiss will be enough for some. Just look at Finn and Rose, I saw some people call their kiss a "non-romantic" one (as if a kiss on the lips could not be intended to be romantic) and explain how "Finn is just a substitute of Paige in Rose's mind" while talking about the kiss.
I know it's Star Wars but eww.

 

Best part is, it's mutual. She made ALL the moves, she kept the conversations going, instead of saying something like "No, I'm not talking to you, get away from me" and ignoring him, she would ask all the questions, she went to touch him first, she fought the illustrious Luke Skywalker over him, she shipped herself across space and in a box to Ben Solo.

I never imagined they'd let Rey fall for Ben Solo before he was 100% redeemed but they did it, they freaking did it. LF/Disney went there and I know they're proud of their product and audience response.

 

Oh agreed. I couldn't believe they went there before redemption, that's for sure. You know Kylo noticed how taken aback (read: stunned and interested) she was when he checked her out - you can see that in his reaction to her face. I'm half convinced that's why he left the cowl off when she caught him in his pajama pants (or whatever the heck those were) next time. He knew she was intrigued. Snake offered her a bite of forbidden fruit.

 

I think part of it may have something to do with the fact that this movie is very "female-gaze". Actually, the ST as a whole is. Had Kylo walked in on Rey changing or swimming and blushed nobody would be questioning why that scene existed, yet there's been everything from outrage to obsession over Kylo appearing shirtless. Well, it's done for Rey, just like Kylo was prettied up during the interrogation for her eyes only. As an audience we're meant to see that and think "Yes, these two are attracted to each other." That's why they always look either their best or painfully vulnerable when they are in the presence of the other.

It's just like Rey getting all gorgeous by changing her hair and clothes when she enters the coffin escape pod and ships herself to the Supremacy. Again, as an audience we're meant to realize that she's putting a bit of thought into her appearance for the first time ever. She's leaving that "childhood" up-do behind when she goes to meet him. And look at her face when she sees him... whatever she saw in her vision, it changed everything. Like, come on.

@anakinfansince1983
Toxicity? These two helped each other so much in TLJ, even if things went south in the last 30 minutes. The movie might as well be called The Interventions of Ben Solo and Rey of Jakku. Their bond spurs change in both. Kylo overcomes his lifelong abuser and Rey overcomes her lifelong trauma from her abandonment. Sure, they have a way to go, but the story isn't over. Kylo remains unable to let go of the past (the irony of the whole throne room sequence) but to label everything "toxic" at this point is all levels of baffling to me. The Force theme plays when they touch, the world melts away.

Furthermore you can't expect storytellers to share your definition of "romance". Considering the now numerous comparisons between Rey and Kylo and fictional romantic couples I would say the filmmakers simply disagree with you in every way.