ST Space chase/ Crait plan discussion thread

Yeah, I wouldn't be for throwing out Holdo's character at all. I just wish they did something I would consider "cool" with the character. The scene kind of feels like this to me:

HOLDO: I'm here in the movie with my purple gown because it alludes to the 1990s when more and more female bosses started appearing. People just took them the wrong way because they dressed differently, more feminine. And even though that was at least a couple decades ago, it might still be very relevant, and how fun to put it in a Star Wars movie!

POE: And that's what I'm doing. Despite how Holdo was famous for that Battle of Chiron or whatever, she's obviously this unqualified purple lady who is out of her depth in this engagement. I need to spell it out for her--how we're going to run out of fuel--and tell her the manly way to handle this situation.

HOLDO: That's because he's a flyboy, and that's what those flyboy types do. Although I like putting flyboys in their place, I also have to admit I kind of have the hots for this one, but I guess that made me too abrasive in earlier versions of our scenes.

POE: So I'm gonna be an ******* and kick chairs and stage a mutiny, and get most of the Resistance killed.

HOLDO: It's such an intense conflict. And I'll never let him know that I have a plan for getting us all out of this situation, because that could have diffused things a bit.

LEIA: You see, Holdo didn't care about advertising herself as a hero. Being a flyboy wasn't the sort of image she was trying to send. Let me take a moment to explain her plan.

POE: Okay I've got this. Next time I'm about to get the entire Resistance killed, I'll stop and consider if maybe we're all gonna die and then I might change my mind.

HOLDO: That's our boy! Say it with me now: We are the spark that will ignite the fire that will...

POE: BURNNNNNN!

HOLDO: Oh my, he's so dangerous!

 

It's not masculine, bruh.

Sorry but I like Ackbar and he got the famous line "it's a trap" but I never got it. Can I make a case as to why nien numb hasn't gotten more lines or love?

And I concur about raddus. Even though Ackbar set the stage for him

 

I have still yet to hear any legitimate explanation for why the FO didn't send in hundreds of TIEs.

Each SD has a full contingent of TIE Fighters, and the Supremacy must have hundreds of its own. Not to mention TIE Interceptors, which for some reason, were not used or seen in TFA or TLJ at all.

The Empire and FO are notorious for not caring about the lives or equipment sacrifices. We saw 4 TIEs blow up the hangar AND the bridge. Why not send in hundreds and end this thing in 10 minutes?

The destroyers can't "cover" them? How do you cover TIE Fighters, by firing turbolasers in their general direction? This makes no sense whatsoever.

I have tried over and over to defend this plot hole but I simply cannot do it.

 

It's like the FO turned into Dr. Evil from Austin Powers. "Now that we have them on the ropes should we just finish them off? No! We'll let them starve to death out of reach of our weapons so that they can take their time planning a heroic escape!". The empire was never this stupid. It's silly.

 

Are you forgetting that Han landed on a Star Destroyer and nobody noticed it?

 

Same! The only thing I could think of was maybe they are all dunces. Canady understood TIEs are important. Then he was killed. Hux just doesn't know how to use his resources apparently.

Though if it turns out any of them actually CARE about people's lives that will be just touching (I'm just skeptical it can serve as an explanation for this).

Resources? Who cares. The FO has a lot of resources. Apparently so many that they can seize all the major systems within weeks.

 

The FO is notorious for not caring about lives or equipment sacrifices?

 

Lol, yeah they got fooled pretty bad there but I always accepted it because Han is supposed to be an expert at evading Star Destroyers and knows all the tricks. In ESB the scene just happens quickly and we get to move on to the next plot point. It's not like Cpt. Needa says "Did anybody check the back of our ship? Actually, nevermind, we don't need to do that, I'm sure they'll just turn up eventually." He ain't no Hux that's for sure.

That scene even works to kind of explain how the Falcon got from Hoth to Bespin, they hitched a ride on the Avenger.

 

A moderator who loved the movie suggested that the explanation might be that Hux is an idiot.

 

Dang, I never thought about the bolded before. Now I want to rewatch ESB just to see if this seems plausible. I have always head-cannoned that it took weeks or months to get to Bespin, which was in the same system as Hoth, they just didn't show an obvious time skip. I think there is very good reason to doubt the same system thing based on dialogue, so hitching a ride + weeks or months in transit (while Luke trained) is a better explanation.

 

Hux having an IQ of 80 is kind of the only explanation...

 

And there's no way around that really (for me). You're correct (it contradicts TFA Hux).

The situation set-up is just really bad. I think RJ needed help from someone who can write/think of battle strategies that would meet his plot requirements.

 

That doesn't make sense. They wouldn't have been surprised by the Empire's presence on Cloud City then. Also, they very clearly detach and float away from the Avenger before it jumps to lightspeed.

Now... if you're talking about them hitching a ride on another random (non-Imperial) ship as an explanation for getting to Bespin with no hyperdrive, sure why not.

 

The phrase you're quoting was not written by me, but by @Glitterstimm

 

Edited, sorry pal. Bad formatting.

 

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I'm not trying to argue this is canon, only my personal interpretation. It goes like this:

1) The Falcon evades the Avenger by sneaking onto its back.
2) After looking for the Falcon, the Avenger hyperspace jumps to meet up with the rest of the imperial fleet in the Anoat system so that Piet can answer to Vader. The fleet was congregating there to re-stock their hyperdive coolant from Bespin's tibanna gas mines. However they are not in orbit over Bespin, they are in deep space on the system's periphery.
3) Han waits until the fleet is going to disperse, then detaches. There is no imperial presence on Cloud City at this time because the only reason they went there was for a re-supply. Han assumes Cloud City will be safe because all the star destroyers have left, and they can sneak in.
4) Boba Fett tracks the Falcon en-route to Bespin, and when he realizes that is their destination, he contacts Vader. The Executor then goes back to Bespin, before the Falcon arrives at Cloud City, outrunning them with a working hyperdrive.

This explanation assumes that the planets Hoth and Bespin are in two different star systems. When Veers briefs Vader on the attack on Hoth, he says "Com-scan has detected an energy shield on the 6th planet of the Hoth system", which seems to not be the Anoat system. It can get confusing because planets and star systems in SW are frequently referred to by the same name. However, I'll be the first to acknowledge this explanation could be wrong. Although the map below is no longer canon, it shows that Hoth and Anoat are two separate systems located almost on top of each other along the Correlian Trade Spine. This suggests to me that the story group wasn't quite sure what the explanation was for the Falcon getting from Hoth to Bespin, but wanted to leave open the possibility that they traveled the whole way without any hyperspace jumps.

 

I cannot blame Hux, he had two options, the fast one which would require him to move his fleet ahead of the Resistance, and other option which was to wait a few hours.

We are not sure if it is possible to do micro-jumps in hyperspace in the Star Wars universe. So far it has not been presented, so we do not know the rules.

Waiting, giving that he was arrogant and never thought something could go wrong, was the easier solution.

Also, Snoke was using the chase to try to break the spirit of Rey. We are not sure if Snoke asked Hux to keep the chase while he waited for the Kylo/Rey mind connection, planted by him, to work and bring Rey to him.

Hux and arrogance match perfectly with his portrayal in TFA, in my opinion.

 

When I read stuff like this, I know the writers can get away with anything they want. So, seeing light from a distant system in real time because of some horse**** rift isn't a problem, but micro jumps are. How about they write micro jumps as possible and you swallow it, just like everything else.

 

Even if micro-jumps are possible, as presented in "Tarkin" novel, we do not know if these FO ships could do it.

In legends, micro-jumping was considered risky as it could have resulted in the user colliding with nearby objects. It took considerable piloting skill.

The DS1, for example, could not do a micro-jump to get a better angle to attack the Rebel Base in ANH.

 

There was no mention if the FO could still keep tracking the Resistance, if the FO decides to do a regular jump to reposition themselves.

I can reasonably suppose that the hyperspace tracker requires a line of sight on the moment of the enemy jump, which the FO had when the Resistance jumped.

If the FO was inside the hyperspace tunnel, it was not established that they could still keep tracking. Assuming that they can't, then this would give the Resistance a free pass to escape.

There is nothing blatant or forced in the approach used, as we can still explain the decision to not jump, using reasonable assumptions.

 

Trapping the Raddus between multiple fleet members would be great for the First Order, of course.

My personal point of view is that Hux was in a very comfortable situation.

From his point of view, victory was inevitable. Which is a conceivable character trait for him, given his displays of hubris in TFA and TLJ.

The attack that Hux chose was a brute-force attack, instead of a more elaborate plan.
He just tought it was inevitable anyway, and did not want the complications of extra work, even if it would not be so complex.

Additionally, Snoke took advantage of the chase to try to break Rey. He was aware of the tactical scenario too, as he had monitors, and his room had a bridge-like forward view.

And we are not sure if Snoke asked Hux to keep delaying the chase (by not trapping the Resistance with a jump) while he waited for the Kylo/Rey mind connection, planted by him, to work and bring Rey to him.

Finally, a cornered animal fights to death. By letting the Resistance burn their fuel and not trapping them, the FO was allowing the Resistance to keep some futile hope until it was too late, and by then the fighting spirit of the Resistance would have been extinguished.

The whole drama with Poe vs Holdo was almost a self destruction for the Resistance. This is the kind of thing that could only happen if the FO did not corner the Resistance, and it made the Resistance even weaker.

A psychological horror in antecipation for certain death would break the will to make a last stand for the Resistance.