PT Tapping into the Dark Side

In ROTJ, this was a really big deal. When Luke became furious against Vader, the ominous music in the background (one of the best tracks) conveys the uncertiainty of whether Luke will succumb to the dark side.

On the other hand, in TPM, this isn't cared about all. When Obi-Wan uses anger against Darth Maul, nothing signifies why this is/should be important. In fact, Obi-Wan tapping into the dark side against Maul never really occured to me until recently on this forum.

What do you think about that?

 

Anger almost got him killed, serenity got him to defeat his enemy. I thought that was pretty obvious. The fact that they showed this means that it was cared about.

 

Also, Obi-Wan may or may not have used a bit of Dark Side power (it could just be good old fashioned heroic second breath syndrome) but in either case he didn't have an evil wrinkly old troll right there taunting him, one who has turning powerful Jedi as a pastime like Luke did later on. Besides, whilst Obi-Wan was on top for a bit he still got himself kicked off the edge and his lightsaber lost, he had to stop and think like a Jedi again to win.

 

Anger made him fight better though. When he was angry, he was able to break Maul's double-bladed lightsaber. Not even Qui-Gon was able to do this. Before, Obi-Wan was getting owned by Maul, kicked constantly.

Serenity helped him to focus that righteous anger.

 

Fight better? I disagree. The fact is that it almost got him killed. Anger was not the answer.

Breaking the lightsaber didn't do much for him. He still got quickly beaten.

Kicked twice and ready to continue the fight.

The anger was gone by that point. Serenity helped him become calm and focus his mind on the surroundings, which in turn led him to defeat Maul.

 

Obi-Wan didn't seem to be fighting with anywhere near the rage and intensity that Luke was in the final duel. Another point is that Luke was trying to avoid fighting Vader all along, his intention was never to truly engage Vader but to simply be as evasive as possible, an intention that Vader easily goads him into losing sight of.

 

He broke Maul's lightsaber becuase he hit the metal part between the blades and it sliced right through. Has nothing to do with the dark side.

 

It's also worth noticing that, in the PT, the Jedi didn't know anyone who had gone to the dark side. The know about the Dark Side and the Sith, but it doesn't seems to be such a concern that a Jedi should turn.

After Anakin becomes Vader, Yoda (and Obi-Wan) become much more concerned about that particular danger.

 

It was a different type of fight, with a different dramatic build and different music. But Obi-wan's rage was very palatable, as he was fighting to avenge his fallen mentor. Luke was just battering away at Vader, whereas Obi-wan was fighting Maul with skilled anger. Meaning that Obi-wan had anger and hate, but he using over a dozen years worth of Lightsaber training, whereas Luke was swinging wildly at Vader.

 

No...no I'm pretty sure they were both lightsaber duels.

 

That's not what I'm saying at all. The way Lucas wrote and filmed the TPM duel was different from what Lucas, Kasdan and Marquand came up with ROTJ. Lucas had said that he made ROTJ more of an emotional duel over TESB's physical duel.

"In The Empire Strikes Back it’s the first time that the antagonist and protagonist actually fight each other. So that it is a very big fight and Luke now has become proficient enough to be able to face Darth Vader. So it’s a slightly one-sided sword fight where Vader has the advantage over him. Luke didn’t know that Vader was his father for the fight part, so that what was happening was he though he was fighting his bitter enemy. So he was fighting as hard as he could; he was fighting the man who killed his father; fighting the man who killed Obi-Wan Kenobi; fighting the man who would personify evil in the universe. And then as we go on into the next fight, it becomes more of an equal confrontation. In the next one, the Return of the Jedi, he knew he was fighting his father. He knew that the Emperor was behind all this. And he knew the issues he was dealing with were much larger than just the sword fight. And so that sword fight really centered on the more emotional context the sword fight takes place in than the actual fight itself. That was the climax of the film rather than having it be a technological warfare, blow up the Death Star kind of thing, it was really more of a personal fight between a father and son."

--George Lucas, “The Birth of the Lightsaber,” Star Wars: Bonus Material DVD, 2004

This carries over to TPM in that it is an emotional fight, but it is also a technical fight. Hence we have to combatants who are skilled fighters, fighting for dominance over the other. Both are fighting for revenge and both are nearly equal to the other. There is no taunting on Maul's part as he just let's Obi-wan's anger dictate things and he exploits that. Luke vs Vader is different since the latter is trying to get Luke to lose his cool and so it is more emotional than physical.

 

I think the point of the music syncing up with the temptation of the darkside could easily be chalked up to the point of each trilogy. In TPM, when Obi Wan taps into the darkside it's a quick moment of weakness, more just showing that a young Obi Wan is just like every other human; he got pretty angry, scared and distraught watching his Master and friend be killed. He lost control. The image of him tapping into the darkside is illustrated by him being bested and straight up owned by Maul easily by being kicked down the air shaft. Those who saw the OT knew Obi Wan wasn't about the become the next Sith Lord, and even those who were new to SW could probably guess that the main plot of the PT wasn't going to suddenly come together at the end of the first movie.

In ROTJ, it was a running background theme that Luke was in danger of the darkside, what with Obi Wan's constant reminders of how addictive it is and Yoda's warning that Luke was not ready. The music is so powerful in ROTJ because it was something the audience had almost been dreadfully anticipating. The bright, young and pure hero finally breaking against his darkside influenced Father, finally giving in, finally losing control. It took three movies of "You might end up falling to the darkside and failing" to finally get to that point. It's also just emotionally impacting as we tend to see Luke above that temptation, as he is the Son of Sons and at pre-ESB, "the last hope."

Plus, they just cared more making the OT. It's not only the music that reveals that to us.

 

It has in fact. By letting his anger and hate drive him, he was able to become powerful enough to fight Maul equally, even surpass him (for a very little time). But like Yoda said it in the Jedi Council Chamber :
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

In that case, ANGER is the first emotion Obi-wan felt when Qui-Gon fell on the floor, then his ANGER became HATE when he focused the former on Maul and that HATE made his attacks powerful, his movements blindingly fast and unpredictables and in a moment, he had the advantage but it was without counting on the third emotion: FEAR. FEAR to turn to the Dark Side, FEAR to not become strong enough to defeat his opponent, and FEAR to die here in the hand of the man who have killed his Master. The angrier he got, the more afraid he became, and the fear fed his anger in turn. Obviously, Maul, as a Sith Apprentice, was more experienced in the way of the Dark Side and was able to counterattack with even more ferocity and aggressivity than his opponent because unlike the latter, Maul knew one thing : that FEAR can be a weapon, too. Maul was about to bring SUFFERING to Obi-wan if not by the chance (or the Force). Put against the wall, Obi-wan understood that he needed to let go of his anger, of his hate, of his fear, of everything. Empty, he found clarity and the Force flowed throught him and made made him aware of everything in the room, especially of Qui-Gon's lightsaber ; the rest we all know. Finally, the great lesson of this duel is that the Dark Side gives us what we want, but the Light Side gives us what we need.
Thank you for reading me.

 

Really ? Before TPM, we got Xanatos, Bruck Chun, Aurra Sing, Komari Vosa...And this not an exhaustive list. Between TPM and AotC, we got Jorus C'Baoth, Volfe Karkko, Dooku...Between AotC and RotS, Sora Bulq, Depa Billaba, Quinlan Vos (even he succeded in returning to the Light), Eremin Tarn...After RotS, A'Sharad Hett, Jerec... See, they have always been concerned by it because, after all, a Dark Jedi is very susceptible to become a Dark Lord of the Sith (Dooku becoming Darth Tyranus,for example...)

 

To me it seemed to play out just like it was supposed to be. Obi Wan got angry, which gave him a small push and made him fight more aggressively. Remember, the dark side is the quick and easy path, it can give you power, or at least the illusion of it. This "rush" can overpower or confuse an enemy who doesn't expect it (Vader in the case of Luke, Maul early on against Obi Wan), but it's not a lot of help when the opponent survies the onslaught or lures you into a mistake. Once Maul got used to it, he used Obi Wan's aggressiveness to his advantage, which almost got Obi Wan killed. It's only when Obi Wan comes to his senses and focuses again, that he is actually able to beat Maul.

None of that has much to do with the post you quoted. All those names are from the EU, which meant squat when it came to the movies. At the time of TPM, which is when this duel takes place, the Jedi have little experience with using the dark side in combat. Though I wouldn't necessarily agree with the point of the post you quoted, as Yoda is pretty clear about the threads of the dark side, as can be seen in the "Fear is the path to the dark side..." line, and the rejection of Anakin.

 

That's EU, which I don't care about (and IMO diminishes the importance of the story of the movies). Going by the movies, I understand that in episode I they consider the Sith to be an ancient threat, gone for a millenium, and they haven't had any fallen Jedi, or any recent problems involving the Dark Side. Yoda's "fear is the path to the dark side" speech is the only warning against the Dark Side we hear in the whole PT. In episode II they know Dooku has left the Jedi Order, but they don't suspect he has turned to the dark side or joined the sith until the final confrontation ("powerful you have become... the dark side i sense in you).

On the contrary, after Anakin's fall, during episodes V and VI, Yoda and Obi-Wan are constantly warning Luke about the dangers of the dark side, based (it seems to me) on the experience they've had with Anakin/Vader.