ST The Cave-A Domain Of Evil It Is. In, The haters Must Go (The Official haters' Sanctuary)

There seems to be a pressure of conformity around TFA. eg anyone who disagrees too strongly is deemed a 'hater' or 'troll'. This labeling polarizes debate and makes any meaningful discussion between the two groups useless.

This is why any criticism of this film is couched with such defensiveness: "I'm not hater, but...", "I love this film, but...".

I personally don't care about the labeling, and if the moderators of this forum want to create a more positive vibe I will respect that and just comment here.

 

Eh, I've seen it before. There tends to be at least one vocal person in every "Bashers Sanctuary" type thread. They can't abide by dissenters (Disgusting Creatures!) giving their honest opinion, so they seek to take on every "wrong opinion" (Oxymoron?) singlehandedly.

I also object to the thread title. Quite frankly I didn't hate the film. But the consensus seems to be if you didn't love every singly frame of film unequivocally,without reservations, then you're some kind of backward thinking troglodyte that needs to be lumped in with the other neanderthals.

Whatever.

 

The Force Awakens?

TFA is a marketing campaign, created by all Hollywood hacks. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the box office together. It is what gives the fanboys their power.

 

A Star Wars movie's strength flows from the coarse. But beware of the rehash. Hunger, cheers, obsession. The dark side are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight.
If once you start down the rehash, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will. As it did George Lucas' apprentice.

JJ Abrams!
Is the rehash stronger?

No! Quicker, easier. More seductive.

But why can't...

No! There is no why. No more will I teach you today. Watch the Prequel Trilogy.

 

I love Battlefront. I've been playing the battle of Jakku daily for a month and enjoy it. It's not revolutionary, but I have fun.

 

The Honest Teaser was right "We could show you 2 hours of a monkey washing a cat and you'd still see this movie...twice." Can't wait for the full Honest Trailer.

 

I think for some of us the delicious idea of "A new Star Wars movie came out, and it's good" is more important than the movie's actual worth. That is why the knives come out so fast when it comes to criticizing some of this stuff. You're too dumb to get it, you went in already hating it, you're a joyless person, etc. No one wants the ride on "A new Star Wars movie came out, and it's good" to end.

 

While I liked TFA, I can certainly see why someone would dislike it. It's a sad state that people react so defensively if you critizise a work of fiction they liked. It's almost as if some have forgotten to differentiate between fiction and reality.

Like Mark Hamill said, it's just a movie.

 

But exactly what is that symbolism supposed to be?

Luke has a lightsaber that truly qualifies as his own which he constructed just before ROJ and which he still had with him when he arrived at the Endor victory celebration: http://starwarsscreencaps.com/star-wars-episode-vi-return-of-the-jedi-1983/84/

So what's the symbolism? At best his father's lightsaber is a painful reminder that he screwed up in Cloud City and eventually needed to be saved by his friends. Is that what Rey tries to convey by showing him the lightsaber? "Now would be a good time you save your friends" (EDIT: "...that are still alive")?

I'm really curious how this is going to play out in Episode VIII.

 

And...again. I've been to various message boards and if there seems to be one red thread among the critics, sceptics, haters or whatever one like to pidgeonhole these, then it's almost universal consent that the first half hour of the movie was Star Wars at its best.

So instead of trying to find fault with the film, my overall impression is rather that the movie had such a promising head start that it's almost amazing that it later fell so quickly and noticably "behind".

I often hear that sceptics or people like myself with a rather "indifferent" attitude had expectations way too high. Well, I went into the movie with my expectations set to "Zero" but then really warmed up to these first 30 minutes. So who is to blame?

 

I think the symbolism of the lightsaber is from Anakin Skywalker to Luke Skywalker to Rey Skywalker

 

Okay, now I expect Luke to chop off her right hand and say "now the circle is complete"

P.S. If you all think you can't share your critical thoughts about TFA here adequately, I can't help but mention that there are other message boards where they cook you alive, and with a religious fervor that's almost impossible to believe, I should add.

 

I think the symbolism is that after watching TFA, you'll want to hack your arm off.

 

I guess that will be Kylo Monkeyface's job for the next movie when they take the outline of "Empire Strikes Back" and plug the new characters into it with an overdose of video gamey CGI effects.

 

They wouldn't dare cut off Rey's hand in the next one. The feminists would crucify them. I'd be surprised if she even gets a scratch.

 

She'll lose a fingernail and have to replace it with a metal one cuz rhyming and poetry.

 

Very, very good point. Its a shame that its from the poster who said;

It works both ways.

Not picking on you particularly - just a jumping off point for something I've wanted to put here for a while;

The thing is, back in the days of the Gushers/Bashers wars, the Bashers Sanctuary was a brilliant thread (well, threads, technically - I think there were 3 or 4 by the time it shut down), because those wars weren't happening in there. Sure, some people like the "us vs them" clubs, but the old Sanctuary was a) a sanctuary from the nonsense that anyone who shared an opinion of a film must be a part of the same club, share their opinions of everything else (including everything within the film itself), and b) it belonged to the "Bashers" — so the "if you don't like it, why are you on a website talking about it" nonsense was flipped on its head.

]I do hope that this thread can do something similar; as the original post set out;

(emphasis mine.)

There's an idea that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. For Star Wars "canon", that gets a bit less clear-cut, but I think what worked in the Bashers Sanctuary was that people would discuss opinions and debate the "facts" (in so much as you can talk about fictional events in a fictional galaxy "facts"...)

So, please can we leave the "Haters/Defenders" thing at the door? Because that is exactly what the Sanctuary should be a sanctuary from, IMHO.

Maybe those of us looking for something like the old PT-era Bashers club would be better off in a Community thread or something, but I think the thread will be much more interesting/vibrant if it stays focussed on a discussion of the new films, as opposed to some kind of Lord of the Script reunion thread...

 

That's equality and Star Wars is more or less also a war movie, so... Why to bring in a great heroine, if she can never get in danger? Would be an epic fail to relate to her.

 

Turnabout is fair play.

As for the rest, you seem to be pining for the old days. Guess what. I don't care.

If you want to start a thread with the old timers and sing kumbaya, go start one. I am not stopping you.

 

I think that is one of the looming challenges of VIII — Rey's character shields. Is there any such thing as a credible threat to her life? Ren spends half the film doing cool Force stuff, and she humiliates him. If they bring in a fresh dark side threat who is supposedly this intimidating, genius fighter, and he shreds his way through Acts 1 and 2, that means zip as far as Rey is concerned.

It seems likely they will involve her in being someone's bodyguard or escort, so there can be a meaningful threat to what she's protecting. Or maybe her temptation to the dark side will serve as the threat to her.

 

Yeah, that's why we identify so much with Luke's character, since we fear for him when he is in danger, we enjoy with him success and we suffer with him defeat. It is really a big challenge for Rian to reach the same level for Rey's character in VIII (especially after the last 20 minutes of TFA).

 

Wow. Well at least I know where you are coming from.

 

Very true.It seems to me that if there is any actual criticism of TFA that some people in here ( coughDarthlobotcough ) act like Donal Sutherland in 1978

 

You should not expect sexism or anti-feminism at every corner. I'm female and quite independent, but as you saw they changed some cast from male to female after criticism from some groups, therefore it is at least a valid concern. I'm really very happy to have a great actress like Daisy for Rey's character, but I only hope they ignore such groups from outside and let the character develop in a way which is best for the story.

 

This ain't the place to get into it (again), but I havta say it is no coincidence in my mind that some small minority has the kind of reaction presented. And as far as I know, the decision to diversify the casting (very much the right decision, IMO) was made by JJ and KK independent of any "groups" complaining. But even if some groups did complain, so what? It was a valid criticism in 2015.