The Clone Wars: Incredible Vehicles (spoilers inbound!)

- Botajef Shipyards is also old, from AOTC:ICS. It created the AA-9 freighter.

- Interesting that the experimental references refer to the Malevolence's ion cannons. It's still one referred to as one of the largest vessels in galactic history, but this is not mentioned as the experimental part of the design. 'Dreadnought' was one of the ship classifications Jason previously mentioned for the EGTW, iirc. The word is used extensively for this ship. Might indicate a usage in his next work.

- The book's intro mentions that the war leads to capital ships of a size unseen in thousands of years roaming the spacelanes...

 

Huh, funny to see Star Destroyer as a Class. I thought it used to just be a design philosophy, of having triangle shaped ships, but seeing the Lucrehulk defined as a Star Destroyer? That's a new one. Though I think the Invisible Hand was called a Star Destroyer on the Episode III commentary? But at least the Invisible Hand/Providence is sort of pointy whereas there's not really anything in common between Venators and Lucrehulks.

Just hope the show Recusant turns out to be a different model than the movie one, since I thought the Recusant was designed to be mass-produced in large numbers and thrown at the Republic? If the show's Recusant is basically on par with a Venator then (and that sure seems like the Republic's only large capital ship) then makes it about four-six times as powerful as the Episode III Recusant? Oh well, it'll hopefully all be cleared up eventually.

Was the Devastator mentioned at all? I think that was the only other known Subjugator-class ship? Kind of nice to hear that the Malevolence was a one-off ship rather than the Confederacy starting to pump out dreadnoughts (since then you'd wonder why Grievous wouldn't take something like that to the Battle of Coruscant, unless there simplyw weren't any available when they attacked), and that something as overpowered as its ion cannon had some drawbacks.

 

Yes, the show's Recusant is said to be based on the ROTS ship design, as the initial introduction in the episode guide said. It's 2,544 m long, has a hangar opening on the side, a larger support strut between the engines and the main body and has a Munificent-style bridge. The ROTS Recusant has a smaller bridge (if any conventional bridge at all, given it's meant to mostly be automated), no hangars of any kind and is 1,187 m long. The show Recusant can take a Venator in a one-on-one fight, the movie Recusant can match one Venator in groups of 4-6. Just think of it as a space-version of the tri-droid/Octuptarra combat tri-droid scalable design. We already have two subclasses of the ISD with less changes, yet they're not treated as the same physical ships.

As for Republic capital ships, the Venator and Victory are the main heavy combatants, but dreadnoughts like the Mandator II is described as being far more powerful. The Venator forms the navy's backbone because it's versatile and in larger numbers. There's also some type of Star Battlecruiser in service, also rarely mentioned.

 

While I'm still waiting for this book to arrive, it seems that lot of stuff is new in it. But not everything. The Botajef Shipyards were already mentioned last year as the builders of the SS-54 in "Clone Wars: The Official Episode Guide ? Season Two".

http://nl.starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_Wars:_The_Official_Episode_Guide_%E2%80%93_Season_Two

 

Last question from me, I promise Please tell me that the Trident ships used to abduct Rota and involved in the Battle of Kamino get a class name and manufacturer?

 

Yep. WOTC's starship guide had mentioned that there were different uses for the term "Star Destroyer" - shorthand for the ISD, as a design philosophy, and as a more generic casual term for ships of similar power. I'm guessing that for the EGTW, this is the latter usage, only as an official term rather than slang.

If the new stats are the canon one, the old statements for the Recusants and Munificents will no longer apply.

Yes, it got a number of pages and was one of the eight ships with cut-aways. It's made clear it's a special ship (the Commerce guild destroyers are said to be "the largest ships" in the Confederacy navy, not "one of the largest ships") and an experimental one, but the sister-ship is mentioned. No other Subjugators are mentioned, directly or otherwise.

As far as the Trident - it's a Trident-class assault ship, made by the Colicoids and classed as a gunship.

 

That the Recusants are the largest in the CIS fleet makes no sense, given the Lucrehulk right above it on the very same page.

I also don't get why the Malevolence isn't mentioned like that, unless it's never supposed to be part of a fleet formation. But the Lucrehulks are, so my point stands. Unless they're discounting both ships that are part of the standard fleet, yet were built before the CIS as well as ships that were built for the CIS, yet were not part of a standard fleet? I guess that means the Providence-class Separatist Dreadnaught is slightly smaller than the destroyer...

Since this book was also made before The Starcrusher Trap, we have to leave room for that as well, not to mention the new design for season 4 that Lucas made. Unless they're both cruiser/Star Destroyer size/power as well...

Jason, on the size retcons issue, could you clarify what the deal is? Are both sizes for established ships valid or only the new one?

 

Easy fix for the various size ships with the same name as well as the Combat droids.

The CIS is headed up by a number of Corparate Entities, rather than a proper government and military. The ship classes are not classes in a military sense, but the name for a product line. The Recusant is not a single ship, but a line of ships of different sizes using the same basic design, scaled as needed. The most common, the light destroyer variant, is the one that basically sticks as the product namer.

Look at the changes to the AIM-9 Sidewinder, C-130 Hercules or the F-18 Hornet. Quite different designs over time, still the same manufacturer and name.

 

As well as ship names, there's batch I, batch II etc. Different hulls, different internal systems, this is common practice in the real world. Maybe not as extreme as the SW examples, but this happens in real life. The Venator-size Munificent might even be a wartime upgrade of the pre-war design. Would explain why Nute Gunray is bankrolling frigates that used to be Banking Clan property and why there's the same bridge design on Trade Federation ships now.

 

I'll have to pick this up. It sounds very cool.

 

It is.

 

We see quite a bit of Republic Naval development over the war, with Dreadnaughts, Acclamators, Delta-9s and seemingly V-19s as prewar designs, and Venators, Victories, Eta-Actic and V-Wings as wartime designs.

This could be much of the same with the Separatists. Ongoing modifications to the Lucrehulk, and cost-saving modification of existing designs instead of tons of new ones.Tthe large Recusant could be the original, with a scaled and priced down version mass produced for commerce raiding. The Banking Clan frigate may have been an armed holonet relay, but was repurposed/designed as a proper warship. The small Providence may have been meant as a common combatant (based off an ancient Sith design)(and the ones we see tons of in the CW microseries) while the design was well liked and scaled up to serve as a flagship.

While the Republic designed new ships from scratch, the CIS took existing designs and modified them as needed. Being mostly droid crewed, there are a lot less problems with scaling.

 

That seems like a good idea. The powers that made up the CIS used to be more militarily aggressive than the Republic's government and so developed their own forces prior to the war, while the Republic only had peace-keeping forces that they had used for decades.

 

You realize that length is not the same as size, right? The statement is straightforward, and the fact that they are next to each other makes it unlikely that was some sort of error.

Because no more than two were made? They were experimental ships that were never mass produced.

You're also assuming that the Providences in general won't be altered in the future as well. Most of these changes are to ships that has minimal roles in the movies, and with the Lucas-involved CWAS using them it's bound to create changes much like is has with so much else. I would prefer if previous information stays the way it was - but canon is what it is. *shrug*

As I mentioned, not really. If only one was made it can hardly be a regular fleet ship.

I guess we'll see what Jason has to say.

 

Well, you're using a very strange definition of what is and what isn't part of a navy, especially since the Malevolence was based on the real-life German battleship Bismarck, but whatever.

The Lucrehulk is also still a larger vessel than the Recusant, I wasn't talking about the length. It's a ring-shaped ship with a central neck and command core. The Recusant is a skeletal rocket ship. If Jason's strictly using volumetric sizes, the Recusant might possibly be more massive than the Lucrehulk, with its cavernous hangar bays. That would actually be a better approach than most previous estimates in SW lore.

 

Why not? They only built one Enterprise class Aircraft Carrier, and it is a regular element in the US Navy (Until it is retired and hopefully the name given to CVN 80...)

 

There is also the upcoming Chinese aircraft carrier. Unique, even with homemade ones under production. It would also be part of their navy and certainly wouldn't be ignored.

The term "fleet" can't mean a single fleet, since we see several in the series with Recusants in them. The other alternative is that it is synonymous with "navy", and there's already two designs in the same navy that eclipse it and are featured in the very same book. If they're somehow making exceptions for both those classes, that's one thing, but as it stands, it's a strange wording.

 

The story of the Malevolence was based on the story of the Bismarck, yes. But the Bismarck was still a conventional warship - not "something of a flying experiment" as the Malevolence is called and the two Bismarck-class battleships certainly occupied a significantly larger fraction of the German fleet than the (two wildly different) Subjugators did of the CIS fleet. Again, you know the text from the book.

[/quote] Wait, what? It's not larger, but it might be larger? In any case, if the new designs supercede the old ones previous descriptions would be no longer valid, of course. Why don't we wait for clarification, and save the speculation for now?

 

It may have experimental technology, but nothing precludes it from being a conventional combatant. We see Malevolence operating not as a testbed, but as a naval combatant. Design problems may have made it unfeasible to build more of the class, but it was put into combat service. (Same thing with USS Enterprise, planned class of six, only built the first and cancelled the rest due to budget and design issues. Nimitz class resulted)

Arguing proportions as a qualifier for designation? That's ridiculous. There are plenty of one or two off ships that serve as active members of various navies. If you want to play with fractions, the Bismark was part of a several hundred ship navy. A single vessel that has the same proportions of crew, firepower, and material as the Bismark did to the rest of the Kreigsmarine would be about equivalent to the Death Star compared to the Imperial Navy.

The Malevolence certainly acted like a conventional warship (albeit with a new/experimental scaled up weapon). Ion cannons are not really unconventional, just usually smaller. Tactics were not unconventional- engage enemy, disable enemy, destroy enemy. In comparison, the Stealth Ship was an unconventional ship with it's cloaking device and vastly different use in an engagement. Malevolence was experimental technology used to win a conventional battle. It just brought more/bigger guns to the field. Unconventional weapons change the battle entirely.

 

I used official stats as provided by LFL. That said, it looks like something went awry with the description that's being discussed: It should have said that the CGD is one of the largest ships in the Separatist fleet, noted they're mass-produced (as opposed to, say, the Malevolence) and that groups of them are often used to overwhelm Republic capital ships.

It was definitely awesome to be able to use some ideas already approved for WARFARE, and to address ships that were basically uncharted territory, such as the Tridents, the Moogan gunship, the Hutt speeder and Papanoida's cruiser, which I was praying hadn't been named already. (That was followed by praying people would like my idea for a name.) Plus getting to see what Richard Chasemore would come up with in terms of fascinating cutaways was a total kick every time. I really love the Cross-Sections books, so it was a fun challenge to marry that approach with a style more akin to the CW Visual Guides.

Anyway, hope people are liking it.

 

Speaking of which, can anyone drop me some spoilers on any remaining unnamed vehicles which were given a name?

 

Excellent, thanks for clearing that up! I still wish they had kept the old stats... but after three seasons of CWAS I realize that canon has to roll with the punches, so to speak.

It's funny that I had to pick up the book in B&N's "Junior" section, but it really is an all-ages style guide.
You made me feel really bad for the New Mandalorians, though; they really were trying their best to reinvent what being "Mandalorian" meant, weren't they? (They're overdue for an appearance outside of Clone Wars material)

Good stuff, Jason. Really looking forward to the EGTW. (and that map of the Expansion Region you were hinting at...)

 

Thanks for clearing that up, Jason!

Still, aside this info, at least one ship is physically different from its movie counterpart. The Recusant without hangars is not the same as the one with. Even the original episode guide makes this clear. Most ships might be more easily retconned, but this issue still stands. The original model is not given a CW tag in its profile, unlike other entries to the OS Databank.

The text refers to the ion cannons, not the ship itself. It's one of the largest in galactic history, but that's beside Jason's point, which refers to the ion cannons only. Nothing about the ship's size being experimental.

Your goal post-moving also doesn't work, since no navy considers a warship to be "not part of the navy", no matter how few there are of the design. In fact, I don't understand what the point of that diatribe was, except your usual contrarian nature.

Never heard about volumetric measurements? Still it might be a stretch to say the Recusant is more massive, even with the cavernous interior of the Lucrehulk-class. Then again, you were the one claiming it was the largest in the CIS fleet...

 

The Databank... which is notorious for not being updated, especially in recent years? Hey, look, the Munificent got a CW tag... with the old measurements.

Why don't we try this instead - "Jason, is the Recusant profiled in Incredible Vehicles meant to be the same ship as appearing in ROTS, a variant of those ships, or is that not known at this time?"

Tzizvvt78, this issue was already clarified by Jason - why are you persisting in arguing over something that was already resolved? (I'm still baffled why you think referring to volume doesn't imply a volumetric measurement).

 

All right, for those wanting the complete list of ships & vehicles...

Capital Ships (including length and class)

Subjugator-class Heavy Cruiser; Classreadnaught; Length:4845m
Modified Lucrehulk-class LH-3210 Cargo Freighter; Class:Star Destroyer; Length:3356m
Recusant-class Light Destroyer; Class:Cruiser; Length:2544m
Munificent-class Star Frigate; Class:Heavy Cruiser; Length:1199m
Venator-class Star Destroyer; Class:Star Destroyer; Length:1155m
Acclamator-class Military Transport; Class:Heavy Cruiser; Length:891.59m
Corona-class Armed Frigate; Class:Frigate; Length:376m
Pelta-class Frigate; Class:Frigate; Length:282.24m
Consular-class Cruiser (retrofitted); Class:Frigate; Length:139m
"Stealth Ship" [Classified]; Class:Corvette; Length:99.71m



starfighters/gunships

LAAT/i Repulsorlift Gunship
LAAT/c Repulsorlift Gunship
BTL-B Y-wing Starfighter
ARC-170 Starfighter
V-19 Torrent Starfighter
C-9979 Landing Craft
Hyena-class Bomber
Vulture-class Droid Starfighter
Belbullab-22 Starfighter
Nantex-class Territorial Defense Starfighter
Rogue-class Starfighter
Ginivex-class Starfighter
Droch-class Boarding Craft
Trident-class Assault Ship
Delta 7B Aethersprite-class Light Interceptor
Firespray-class Patrol Craft
Kom'rk-class Fighter/Transport
SS-54 Assault Ship

transports/shuttles

Consular-class Cruiser Escape Pod
G9 Rigger Freighter
Shekelesh-class Freight Gunship
Rainhawk-class Transport
Peregrine-class Star Yacht
Punworcca 116-class Interstellar Sloop
GS-100 Salvage Ship
Aka'jor-class Shuttle
The Coronet [Custom Luxury Spaceliner]
Naboo Star Yacht [Customized H-type Nubian Yacht]
Naboo Star Skiff [Customized J-type Nubian Star Skiff]
Flarestar-class Attack Shuttle
Modified HCT-2001 Dragonboat-class Freighter
T-6 Shuttle
W-2 Executive Shuttle
Eta-class Shuttle
Sheathipede-class Shuttle
Nu-class Attack Shuttle

Space Stations

Haven-class Medical Station

repulsorcraft

ComfortRide Passenger Airspeeder
Praxis Mk. I Turbo Speeder
RGC-16 Airspeeder
Custom Ubrikkian Speeder
Undicur-class Jumpspeeder
Pongeeta-class Swamp Speeder
CK-6 Swoop Bike
Flitknot Speeder Bike
Single Trooper Aerial Platform
Biker Advanced Recon Commando Speeder
RapidRespond Police Speeder
Luxury Sail Barge
S-130 Shelter Speeder
Balutar-class Swoop
Buirk'alor-class Airspeeder
Starhawk Speeder Bike
MSP80 Pteropter Hover Pod

military vehicles

AT-TE Assault Walker
AT-RT Recon Walker
RX-200 Falchion-class Assault Tank
HAV wA6 Juggernaut
AV-7 Antivehicle Cannon
Armored Assault Tank
NR-N99 Persuader-class Droid Enforcer
J-1 Semi-Autonomous Proton Cannon
Octuptarra Magna Tri-Droid
Prototype Super Tank
Multi-Troop Transport
WLO-5 Speeder Tank