The Emperor is an idiot

No....Nazi's were communists in a way...I can't remember if hitler was catholic, if he was though, I do have a reason for his genocide of the Jews.

The National Socialist German Workers Party (Nazi for short) started out communistic, but by 1933 it was a far cry from communisim. Communisim promotes atheism, equal distribution of wealth, centralized government to the nth degree, promoted revolutions against non-communistic states and loyalty to the party. The Nazi Party allowed religion, in fact was a strong supporter of the Catholic Church and the Pope supported Hitler (shocking aint it?), horded wealth but did not equally distribute it, centralized the government, very militarlistic and nationalistic, dispised revolutions unless it was in their interests and loyalty to the party.

The only things they had in common was the centeralized government and loyalty to the party. But otherwise they were the exact opposite of each other.

 

But do remember that they failed to kill the rebels on Hoth...caused an Evac..yes, but the snow speeders utterly destroyed them...

If you recall, the Imperials decimated the Rebels on Hoth. Sure, the speeders knocked a few AT-AT walkers... but ultimately, the Imperials powered through the Alliance's forces like a hot knife through butter.

top notch survalence droids were destroyed by Han and Chewy....

that was a self-destruct, which probe droids are supposed to do once they are discovered by an enemy.

the Emperor was not an I diot by any means, but he thought he could fortell the proceedings, thought Luke would turn, he was too caught up in trying to turn Luke, he failed to see Vader being turned...

HE overestimated his own power, and a father's love for his son. But Palpatine wasnt so dumb as you think; he had a clone ready and waiting back on Byss. He devised a way to cheat death... and did so.

 

Nazis friggin' hated Communists. Communism didn't fit into Nazi ideology. Why the hell do you think Stalin joined us against Hitler? If a concerted effort was not made against the Axis Powers, Hitler might very well have conquered the world. Communist theory on paper is actually rather benign, holding all people to be equal and suggesting the (hysterically impossible) ideal that humans will modify themselves to take only what they need and live in harmony with others both economically and politically. In practice, it involves misery, dysentery, and the proletariat trying to overthrow the bourgeois arsefaces in a bloody revolution. Nazi theory on paper involves killing whatever stands in your way to domination and eugenic paradise. Nazi theory in practice...involves killing whatever stands in your way to domination and eugenic paradise. Ew.

The Chiss were so not Nazis that they were...not Nazis.

 

Kharl...I never said he was dumb...I said he wasn't an Idiot...but he wasn't a military matermind either...

Fine, you win, Chiss are not Nazi's (though stalin joined us so that hitler couldn't take his reigeme)

 

Actually Mitth,

The Nazi's were not strong supporters of Catholicism...

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[i]
Evidence:

Religion came under attack by the NAZIs when they seized power in 1933. Christianity in Hitler's view served no purpose other than to undermine and limit what he wanted to accomplish in Germany. Himmler explained, "How different is yonder pale figure on the Cross, whose passivity and emphasized mien of suffering express only humility and self-abnegation, qualities which, we, conscious of our heroic blood, utterly deny... The corruption of our blood caused by the intrusion of this alien philosophy must be ended." [Blackburn, p. 155.] [/i]

Blackburn, Gilmer W. Education in the Third Reich: Race and History in Nazi Textbooks. State University of New York Press: Albany 1985.
[hr]

In addition, remember that Germany was a largely Christian Nation, as it was the heart of the Protestant Reformation....

As for Pope Pius XII, remember that A.) Mussolini was right at the Vatican's doorstep breathing down his neck, and B.) That Pope's involvement with the Nazi's is still open to interpretation and debate...

Oh... and yeah, the Emperor was a genius.... ;)

 

Fine, you win, Chiss are not Nazi's (though stalin joined us so that hitler couldn't take his reigeme)

Stalin joined us because he did not like fascism and it was a threat to communisim. Secondly, Stalin joined us because Hitler was an idiot and backstabbed Stalin after signing the Non-Aggression Pact with the Soviet Union. Finally, Stalin joined us because we promised him he could have East Germany and all the land he took back from Germany--hence the Iron Curtain over Eastern Europe.



Imperial_Hammer, I stand corrected on the Nazis view of religion. I just find it difficult to see them against it when so many Germans were Catholic and Protestant and to oppose the Catholic Church would have lost the Nazis a great deal of supporters.

 

Many priests opposed the Nazi ideals, and some were sent to concentration camps because of that opposition. Pope Pius XI issued the Mit brennender Sorge, an encyclical addressed to all Catholics in Germany. The Church even went so far as to write it in German as opposed to the standard Latin. It condemned the Nazi ideals, especially those regarding the racial issues.

 

Yeah...I'm going with Mitth on this one...I'm almost absolutly sure hitler was catholic...be hey, maybe not...

 

I did not say that Hitler was Catholic so don't even try to agree with me on anything when we don't.

 

DVC: I've proven that not Hitler, nor the Nazi's followed Catholic tenets...

Mitth: Don't worry about it...

I know awful confusing with the difference b/w Catholics and Christians...

But Protestant Germany in the 1940's, theologically, were quite different that Catholicism...

And while most of the citizenry where religious, I mean, Himmler's quote makes sense I suppose... Nazism and Catholicism don't quite go hand in hand....

And I think Hiter would side with his own views versus those of Rome....

Whatever...

 

I know awful confusing with the difference b/w Catholics and Christians...

technically, Catholics are Christians... but whatever

 

Does anyone remember the point of this thread?

 

*Looks at Krahl's last line on his sig*

Hmmmmm....

Yeah... s' true....

But to get into that subject would be digression....

EDIT: And.... um... Mitth..... I think Jello pretty much solved it.... case closed.... back to the base for cookies and ice cream...

 

Sigh...

What I said:

Takeovers of government could only come from within the Imperial military. That's emphatically not what's happenning in SW. It's a real rebellion, not a military coup.

How you concluded from that that I meant that there were no coup attempts (note that I say attempts: there indeed were no coups during the reign of the Emperor because coups are, by definition, successful) against the Emperor, I have no idea. All I said is that the Emperor is brought down by an external rebellion.

Bill Gates could afford, at most, 5-10 CVBGs. You're postulating a world where, while the US Navy still had the same 12 carriers, corporations could afford hundreds of thousands or millions of them. Not realistic.

Have you ever heard of a logical fallacy called affirming the consequent? It goes something like this:

if X, then Y
not X
therefore not Y

You have asserted that Rome panicked after the victories of Spartacus and Arminius. The implication was that the panic was warranted. That does not follow. Let me give you two examples from more recent history:

Napoleon, in his 1812 Russian campaign, captured Moscow. The Russian commander positioned his army to the south of the city, protecting the region around the Volga, which was the breadbasket of the country, and the city of Tula, which produced most of Russia's weapons. This caused panic in the capital of St. Petersburg-people thought Napoleon would head there. Was the panic warranted? No.

In the months after Pearl Harbor, there was a panic on the U.S. west coast about an imminent Japanese invasion. In part, it was this panic that prompted FDR to order internment of Japanese citizens. Was the panic (and the measures applied) warranted? No.

Rome survived Hannibal. That was somewhat more serious than either Spartacus or Arminius.

 

All I said is that the Emperor is brought down by an external rebellion.

Palpatine was taken down by Vader, his right-hand man. Could that not be considered a coup?

 

Could that not be considered a coup?

Sounds like one to me.

 

I guess...from a certain point of view.

 

Hey, the Sith doctrine promotes it -- the apprentice becomes strong enough to kill the master, and then takes on a new apprentice, so the Sith will always have the strongest leaders. One could say that a combination of rebellion and coups took down the Empire. In the years immediately following Endor, the Empire was in utter chaos, with warlord groups springing up all over the place due to the Empire no longer having any direction beyond its commanders' personal goals.

 

What I said:

Takeovers of government could only come from within the Imperial military. That's emphatically not what's happenning in SW. It's a real rebellion, not a military coup.

How you concluded from that that I meant that there were no coup attempts (note that I say attempts: there indeed were no coups during the reign of the Emperor because coups are, by definition, successful) against the Emperor, I have no idea.

The Rebellion is not a rebellion, it is a coup d'etat.

coup d'état:

Noun
Inflected forms: pl.coups d'état or coup d'états The sudden overthrow of a government by a usually small group of persons in or previously in positions of authority.


Senator Mon Mothma
Senator Bail Oragana
Senator Garm bel Iblis
Senator Leia Oragana
Admiral Dodonna (look here! An Imperial Admiral!)

The leaders of the rebellion, by definition, did a military coup.

 

Senator Garm bel Iblis

technically, bel Iblis wasnt a part of Endor... he had left the Rebel Alliance and began creating his own organization.

 

technically, bel Iblis wasnt a part of Endor... he had left the Rebel Alliance and began creating his own organization.

And neither was Bail Oragana, he was long dead. But that is beside the point. The point is, he and Garm were one of the founding leaders who started the Rebel Alliance. Doesn't matter who faught at Endor.

 

The EU has a lot to do with the Empire being over the top cookie cutter bad guys.

I look on the Empire more as the USSR and Eastern Bloc than Nazi Germany.

People that are desperate give away their rights and freedoms, and those that are afraid, far more easily than under duress. The eastern bloc was basically talked into communism. They were starving after war ravaged their lands, and the Soviet Union promised rebuilding, and food and supplies. And those frightened of another Germany agreed. They were under the USSR's "protection". The people of the Seperatists movement will choose to starve or join up.

The whole of the Empire was a set up, with those in power puling the strings the whole time. It's not that they didn't know about Sidious, they did, they just saw what was in it for them. I don't think they got "desolved" until all the people that allowed Sidious to take over were paid off. With new people like Leia, and her younger peers that didn't want the Empire,the facade of the Senate was no longer needed, and most of the leaders of the Alliance were on Alderaan.

And neither was Bail Oragana, he was long dead. But that is beside the point. The point is, he and Garm were one of the founding leaders who started the Rebel Alliance. Doesn't matter who faught at Endor.

I'm more than pleased that EPIII will dispel that myth. It's Bail, Mon Mothma and Padme, as I have long said here.

 

Ah, political ideology.

Incidentially, Hitler sang in his church choir. Stalin was a seminary student.

Marxism is a far more progressive ideology then National Socialism. At its core, Marxism is the ideology that most fervently clings to the notion that all people are filled with an infinite amount of goodness and compassion for all mankind. Then Lenin and Stalin twisted and perverted the works of Marx and Engels.

Whereas Maxist-Leninism--or Maoism, Castroism--is a perversion of what Marx intended. He wanted to create a workers paridise where people would live in harmony, not the creation of totalitarian police states and the needless repression of millions. He wanted a classless society--was he naive? Yep--and the practitioners of his theories immediately established the Party as the top class in the country. And did anyone ever hear about these communist governments ever talk about dissolving the Party when certain conditions were met?

National Socialism emerged from the mind of one man: Hitler. Hitler was the Party and this was irrefutably proven in the aftermath of the Beerhall Putsch when Hitler (along with Hess) was imprisoned in Landsberg and the whole Party fell apart.

Nazism has to be one of the least progressive political ideologies ever conceived. Its ratialism leaves no room for upward social mobility.

 

Tiershon_Fett posted on 2/12/05 1:26pm

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I'm more than pleased that EPIII will dispel that myth. It's Bail, Mon Mothma and Padme, as I have long said here. [hr][/blockquote]

It isn't a myth, its canon and will always be canon regardless whether Lucas makes Padme one of the founding leaders. You know why? Because we don't know how many of them really started the Alliance officially. Three of them may have conceived the idea, but many could have signed the document that started it. Therefore, that would make Garm one of the founding leaders. ktnxgbye

Oh and btw, Padme is supposedly suppose to be dead long before the Rebellion began. So how could she start it?

 

And neither was Bail Oragana, he was long dead. But that is beside the point. The point is, he and Garm were one of the founding leaders who started the Rebel Alliance. Doesn't matter who faught at Endor.

My point was that bel Iblis was no longer part of that particular coup... Organa is a different story, as he died. But Garm left willingly. Yes, he re-joined, but that was about 5 years after the Empire was "officially" toppled.



I'm more than pleased that EPIII will dispel that myth. It's Bail, Mon Mothma and Padme, as I have long said here.

So Lucas is trying to erase what has been done? Hmm... can't say that I'm surprised.