The "Fluid" Future

In the Star Wars Saga, we have Jedi with visions, loads of them, including Anakin, Yoda, and Luke, and even Whie of Vjun. The problem we see is that each time, the vision comes true anyway. Padme dies, Han etc suffer, and Whie dies by a Jedi blade---Anakin Skywalker's. And yet Yoda tells us the future is constantly in motion. I'm wondering...so far, what the Saga shows us is that the future is a fixed thing. Is everything truly set in stone? How then, is the future in the Star Wars Saga fluid, if it actually is?

Anyone? A thought?

 

Anakin's visions only come true when Anakin makes them come true by trying to avert them. What he sees is a possible future, amplified by his negative tendencies, and rendered true by his negative actions. Just something to add to the pile.

 

- Will they die?
- Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future.

- Hmm... Clouded, this boy's future is.

Doesn't seem fixed to me. At these points, they had no clear vision either way.
The point with Padmé's death is that it happens because Anakin tries to prevent it. He has the visions because he's afraid of losing her. His fear, his dark side, is playing a trick on him.

EDIT: Damn you, Cryogenic!





Visions - they are treacherous
/Flames

 

Hmm, yeah. Well, I don't know how well EU stands here, but let's bring in EU. Whie Malreaux, dreamed he'll die by a Jedi's blade. He thought it meant he would turn to the Dark Side, and for a period of time, was afraid of turning Dark. ( Dark Rendezvous) In the end, Tallisbeth Enwandung-Esterhazy managed to help him move beyond those fears, and so he did nothing, and what happened later was that he got cut down in the Jedi Temple by a "Jedi blade", the blue lightsaber of Anakin Skywalker. And yet when Anakin tries to avert Padme's death, he instead contributes to Padme's death in a major way. Does this mean that in the Star Wars universe, whatever is Seen will happen then, one way or another?

 

No! Read Cryo's post again. That's the best explanation of the cause for Padmé's death. Anakin focused on the negative and so, when the Force showed him a possible future, it showed him a negative possible future, which he himself would make come true if he acted on his negative feelings.
If Anakin had heeded Yoda's words, he wouldn't have lost Padmé.





Anakin fooled himself
/Flames

 

RangerofAnor, we try to focus on the movies themselves, not on the EU. Although the EU can be used to ilustrate points. Read our EU usage policy in the Rules and Announcements thread.

 

Someone tell darth-sinister that. That boy includes the EU like it's going out of fashion!

Flames: my gratitude. It is very easy to see Anakin's inherent problem. Obi Wan spells it out for us in one of their first scenes in AOTC: "Anakin, you're focusing on the negative." Know that and you know Anakin.

 

ROFLMAO

It's true the EU can make some of us crazy when someone uses it to push a point, not illustrate as said above, i'm one of the craziest in that regards i think because i haven't read enough of it to argue, LoL.

Well onto the point of this thread.

The future is not shown to be set, even Anakin's visions subtly change in RotS, in intensity and clairity, iirc some of the physical things change.

The future is as yoda in ESB said, "in motion". There are a large number of actions that can be taken to change things, but lets look at the three examples in this thread.

Then we have Whie i think was the name's spelling (i have not read dark rendevous) and as presented he has a vision that a jedi's blade will kill him.

At first, he is afraid he'll turn dark, but he does nothing and because he does nothing dramatic he dies by Anakin's blade.

Had he joined the sith this future would have been just as possible, but not necessarily more likely, had he left the order and become a moisture farmer on Tatooine it's almost sure he'd have avoided this fate. The same is true if he commits suicide with a blaster. An important distinction because he can control his fate, if only by choosing to die another way.

Then we have Anakin who tries to prevent a vision and in doing so makes it come true.

Anakin's vision was not in his control, this i think was ultimately his undoing, also he didn't get enough information from it.

He did not know why she died or where, only when. If it was from natural causes or a medical mistake/failure of some nature he would be helpless.

I think he paniced, never considered that she was injured (broken hearted--i just can't buy this one), or that it had anything to do with him. Even if it's the broken heart it's because of him her heart is broken.

If he had known why she died in child birth he could have waited and saved her, if he even thought it was an injury he could have done this.

His failing is very human, he has a horrible vision of the future and tried to prevent it, in so doing he brought it about because he misunderstood it.

This doesn't mean he couldn't prevent it, it just means he did the wrong thing and caused it.

Finally we have Luke who sees his friends being tortured in Cloud City, but clearly he doesn't see their fate. Yoda can also see this in the futre from teh scene and one other thing is seen but not spelled out.

Both Yoda and Luke forsee that Luke can help them.

Luke asks Yoda "will they die?".

Yoda of course responds, after concentrating and i assume seeing as much of their future as he can make out, "Difficult to say (see?) Always in motion is the future."

Later Yoda makes the statement that convinces me he can see the fact that Luke can help them, "If you leave now, help them you could, but you will sacrafice all for which they have fought and suffered." (notice how it's not backwards like PT yoda-speak? i like that)

Luke had control he could have choosen not to go, he could have killed himself, he could have struck a deal with vader that he'd surrender for his friends freedom. Vader might have kept it but of course he'd more likely "alter" it.

My point here becomes that if a person has control over a vision it is definately not set, a prophecy is different at least in star wars.

The choosen one prophecy would have come true at many points:

if he doesn't stop mace

if he kills sidious when he has his saber to his neck in RotS

for 20 years he could have tried and likely they both die, i like to see their relationship as one where Vader might be able to kill sidious but would not survive because of his need for life support. Sidious could and would damage it too badly before he died.

of course both Sith died when he saved Luke.

So I believe from the way the story goes that visions are very small glimpses of possible futures given without context and can be cha

 

Yes, many events in the GFFA that are foreseen, predestined, dreamt or prophesied seem to come true but it seems that what is fluid and in motion is one's perception of how things will play out, and frequently that focus ("focus determines your reality") is how things change and what is dependent on the actions and point of view of the individual. People foresee the phenotype of the future but not the genotype of what creates it and makes it what it is outwardly (darn pesky midis). Padme was going to die eventually, because as Yoda puts it, it is a natural part of life, but Anakin's actions brought it to bear as he foresaw it would occur, in childbirth. Similarly, the Emperor apparently, according to Vader, foresaw his death at the hand of Luke, which may be a reference to the ESB back line "he could destroy us", but the Emperor through his own actions brought about the death and destruction of both himself and Vader through Luke but not directly by Luke. Another aspect of the Emperor's predictions is with respect to Luke "coming" to Vader. Luke did but not only in the literal sense but as a son and as to Anakin rather than Vader, not as a potential apprentice Sith. I will not leave my ramblings without mentioning the inevitable Kenobi line, "You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." The eventual truth of what Anakin, in ROTS, and the Emperor, in ROTJ, saw and clung to literally came true but only because they stuck to their vision, their point of view, and that became their undoing, which in the Emperor's case was so in contrast to his adjusting his plans in the PT where he planned (AOTC) not foresaw (ROTJ). One can even go so far as saying that the Emperor and Anakin suffered for their lack of vision.

 

Alright, a bit irrelevant, but what is the diff then, btwn using EU to illustrate a point and hold an argument?

 

In the ROTS novel, Anakin has a vision of Dooku with two lightsabers crossed at his neck.