The Jedi Council DID Insult Anakin By not Making him a Master....

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by obiwankoti, Sep 21, 2005.

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  1. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    Meow, right, Mace was just the messenger. the whole council is to blame. meow.
  2. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Meow, to be fair, Mace seems to have always had it in for Anakin.
    I always thought Mace thought he was the chosen one.
    It didn't help that Mace was smirking and flipping Anakin off
    when he told him to have a seat.
  3. EwokThatKilled Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2005
    star 1
    Yes, the Council should have selected someone who was more mentally stable. Unfortunately, there wasn't anyone else in the Order who decided to become the Chancellor's lapdog, so Anakin was the only option to get that close to him.
  4. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    Yes, the Council should have selected someone who was more mentally stable

    I agree, Meow. Mace was not the right man, too unstable, meow.
  5. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Hey, if you're going to spy on your enemy, you try to pick a reliable spy, not one with a "clouded future" or divided loyalties...
  6. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Aren't all of our futures clouded?
    Or am I just standing too close to smokers meowadays?
  7. EwokThatKilled Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2005
    star 1
    So who would you have picked, yoshi?
  8. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    meow, that is right, it was a bad call. they needed to trust him if they do this . but Anakin's outburst made them lose all trust in him. meow.
  9. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    So who would you have picked, yoshi?

    Meow, that's a good Question Ewok, meow, who would you pick? . meow
  10. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    I said stop baiting. That pic and what you posted back there was trying to get a rile up. You guys ask how come Sape and RS and others keep locking your threads where you can discuss Mace. It's this kind of stuff. Either argue civilly and like adults or keep away from the topic. There's a way to debate things and a way not to. You are practicing the way to get another thread locked. When that happens you'll have another one to put in your sig and it will be no one's fault but your own. Consider this a warning for those of you who haven't already been given a final warning.
  11. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    I thought we were just making fun of Mace's incontinent look.
    No arguing here. These aren't the droids you're looking for.

    EDIT: In all seriousness, his body language and demeanor (Mace, I'm saying)
    could have been a bit more sympathetic. He didn't have to look like
    he enjoyed reprimanding Anakin so much.

    EDIT Redux: Who to pick? That's actually a very good question.
    There really isn't any other Jedi to pick with the same rapport and access
    to Palpatine that Anakin has.
  12. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    It's not the argument. I agree with Duggy, et al about the scene and the way Mace handled it, but the arguing in circles and sniping at each other has got to stop. I'm a pretty patient mod, and it's tring MY patience.
  13. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Ah. Well, not a sniper. Certainly not a circler.

    I am curious though, what if it had been Obi Wan to ask Anakin to
    take a seat, rather than sharing that embarrassed look with Yoda?

    EDIT: ask, in a relative sense, that is.
  14. EwokThatKilled Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2005
    star 1
    Mace Windu is outright hostile to Anakin? When?

    If anything, Mace is his strongest supporter and then Anakin starts acting puffed up and Mace starts getting frustrated with his attitude and is suspicious of his relationship with Palpatine. For good reason.

    Let's have a look at Mace and his direct and indirect approach to Anakin:

    MACE WINDU: You're referring to the prophesy of the one who will bring balance to the Force...you believe it's this boy??

    MACE WINDU: Bring him before us, then.

    MACE WINDU: Be mindful of your feelings...

    MACE WINDU: His cells contain a high concentration of midi-chlorians.

    MACE WINDU: No. He will not be trained.

    MACE WINDU: He is too old. There is already too much anger in him.

    MACE WINDU: Anakin, escort the Senator back to her home planet of Naboo. She'll be safer there. And don't use registered transport. Travel as refugees.

    MACE WINDU: Anakin, go to the Senate and ask Chancellor Palpatine to speak with her.

    MACE WINDU: The boy has exceptional skills.

    MACE WINDU: Remember, Obi-Wan. If the prophecy is true, your apprentice is the only one who can bring the Force back into balance.

    MACE WINDU: (V.O.) Anakin, We will deal with Count Dooku. The most important thing for you is to stay where you are. Protect the Senator at all costs. That is your first priority.

    MACE WINDU: Where is your apprentice?

    MACE WINDU: You are on this Council, but we do not grant you the rank of Master.

    MACE WINDU: Take a seat, young Skywalker.

    MACE WINDU: It's very dangerous, putting them together. I don't think the boy can handle it. I don't trust him.

    MACE WINDU: So the prophecy says.

    MACE WINDU: The Council will make up its own mind who is to go, not the Chancellor.

    MACE WINDU: Thank you, Commander. Anakin, deliver this report to the Chancellor. His reaction will give us a clue to his intentions.

    MACE WINDU: What is it, Skywalker? We are in a hurry. We have just received word that Obi-Wan has destroyed General Grievous. We are on our way to make sure the Chancellor returns emergency powers back to the Senate.

    MACE WINDU: A Sith Lord?

    MACE WINDU: How do you know this?

    MACE WINDU: Are you sure?

    MACE WINDU: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    MACE WINDU: For your own good, stay out of this affair. I sense a great deal of confusion in you, young Skywalker. There is much fear that clouds your judgment.

    MACE WINDU: No. If what you told me is true, you will have gained my trust, but for now remain here.

    MACE WINDU: Wait for us in the Council Chamber until we return.

    MACE WINDU: He's the traitor. Stop him!

    MACE WINDU: Don't listen to him, Anakin.

    MACE WINDU: He has too much control of the Senate and the Courts. He is too dangerous to be kept alive.

    Now let's look at the deleted scene from AOTC:

    Mace Windu
    Be wary, this disturbance in
    the Force is growing stronger.

    Obi-Wan
    I'm concerned for my Padawan.
    He is not ready to be on his own.

    Mace Windu
    He has exceptional skills.
    The Council is confident in its decision,
    Obi-Wan. If the prophecy is true,
    he will be the one to bring
    balance to the Force.

    Obi-Wan
    But he still has much to learn.
    His skills have made him... well...
    arrogant. I realize now what you and
    Master Yoda knew from the beginning...
    the boy was too old to start the training,
    and...

    OBI-WAN hesitates.

    Mace Windu
    There's something else?

    Obi-Wan
    Master, we should not have been
    given this assignment. I'm afraid
    Anakin won't be able to protect
    the Senator.

    Mace Windu
    Why?

    Obi-Wan
    He has a... an emotional connection
    with her. It's been there since he was
    a boy. Now he's confused...
    distracted.

    Mace Windu
    Obi-Wan, you must have faith
    that he will take th
  15. -maynard- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 3
    Yoda's comments

    i find it hard to see anything wrong with what he says or the manner in which he says it. this is lucas beating the the attachment/greed thing over our (and anakin) heads. it is the answer. this also shows the disconnect from where anakin should be and where he is.

    the thing is that anakin already knows the answer. he's been told this all his life.

    in a way, he goes to yoda to see what each side is offering. its like he's giving to jedi a last chance to give him the answer he wants to hear, which is the other point: there are no options in his mind. he is going to save padme. letting go of her is not what he wants to hear or do
  16. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    from the Novel pg 201.

    Finally, as it began to sink in upon him , as he gradually allowed himself to understand that the council had finally decided to grant him his hearts desire. thet they finally had recognized his accomplishmnents , his dedications , his Power. he took a slow deep breath.
    " thank you Masters . you have my pledge that i will uphold the highest principlals of the Jedi order. " "Allow this appointment lightly , the council does not. "
    Yoda's ears curled forward at Anakin like accusing fingers fingers . " disturbing this move by Chancelor Palpatine is , on many levels " . Anakin inclind his head " I understand " "i,m not sure you do " Mace Windu leaned forward staring into Anakin's eyes with a Measuring squint.

    " You will attend the meetings of this council, " the Corun Master said " but you will not be granted the rank and priviledges of a Jedi Master ".
    " What ? " It was a small word, an instinctive recoil from words that felt like punches. like stun blasts exploding inside his brain that left his head ringing and the room spinning around him. - but even to his own ears the Voice that came from his own lips Did'nt sound like his own, It sounded like Dooku,But it was not Dooku's voice, it was the voice of Dooku's destroyer. " How dare you" , " how dare you " ..... " No Jedi i this room can match my power - no Jedi can in the Galaxy , you think you can deny Mastery to me ? "
    ...... Mace Windu's eyes were as cold as the voice from Anakin's mouth. " take your seat young Skywalker " Anakin matched his stare perhaps i'll take yours . His own Voice inside his head, had a hot black fire that smoked from the Depths of his furnace heart. you think you can stop me from saving my love? you think you can make me watch her die? Go ahead and Vapaad this , you- ." Anakin " ObiWan said softly , he gestured to an empty seat beside him ." please " and something in ObiWan's voice , in his simple Straightforward request , sent his anger slinking off off ashamed and Anakin found himself alone on the carpet in the of the Jedi Council blinking. he suddenly felt very young and foolish.


    What i see is everybody handling that wrong, except Obi Wan. Yoda's accusing finger, and Mace's cold tone, and Anakin's anger. ObiWan was definitely the only compassionate Jedi in that room. Anakin was not wrong for thinking he was being recognized. he really thought they saw him fit to sit there. not that they want him there as leverage and a Spy. i actually feel sorry for this predicament. not for his outburst and anger, just that he is being puleed in all directions


    To anyone who think that Anakin wasn't one step away from committing a massive homicide needs to have their head examined. Anakin's outburst took everyone by surprise and note that Lucas only has Mace tell Anakin to sit his ass down and plant it.

    Now we have another issue. That of what Anakin should've done. The Jedi Code states that there is no passion, there is serenity. Passion is connected to possession, attachment, fear, jealously, anger and hate. Anakin's passionate view of life is hurting him more than it is helping him. Having serenity means that you are calm, at peace and passive. Your thoughts are clear. Instead of looking back, you're looking forward. Instead of keeping things, you're letting go. Instead of being clingy, you're being uncumbered.

    Yoda warned Anakin to be careful when sensing the future. But he did not listen. He forgot the Jedi rule about the future. It's always in motion. Nothing is for certain. Only the Sith deal in an absolute future. A Jedi is open to the ebb and flow of the Force. A Jedi is open to other options.

    Qui-gon: "Another solution will present itself."

    His advice would be the same if he knew about Padme and the child. It's the same advice that Luke heard about Leia and Han. Let go. Accept change. Accept that people die. Accept nature. If he stopped to think things through, he would see that Yoda's right. Padme would not die. And if she did, then so be it.

    You cannot fight nature, no m
  17. jedisooner1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2005
    star 2
  18. EwokThatKilled Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2005
    star 1
    Great, sinister - a mod and a purist. A great combo. =D=
  19. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Exactly

    What should/could also be noted is that Mace & Yoda feel that "something" is going on with Anakin during his mission in AotC.

    "Death, i feel. Young Skywalker is in pain, terrible pain"

    - O_F
  20. Get_in_Gear Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 5
    Anakin was not ready to be a Jedi Master... so the Council did not make him into one.
    In throwing a hissy fit about this issue, he proved exactly why he was not ready.
    And that's that, really.
  21. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    What should/could also be noted is that Mace & Yoda feel that "something" is going on with Anakin during his mission in AotC.

    "Death, i feel. Young Skywalker is in pain, terrible pain"


    Can anyone tell me what Yoda did about this after this big revelation?
  22. EwokThatKilled Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2005
    star 1
    I didn't read the EU, but I think I remember someone explained it was revealed about his mother's death and this is the pain Yoda sensed but Anakin hid the issue of slaughtering the Tuskens from everyone but Padme.

    I don't think he was rebuked for defying his mandate to protect Senator Amidala since he remained her escort back to Naboo.
  23. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    I think Yoda said something along the lines of "Pain, feel it not, young skywalker. Death, notice it not."

    d-s, is your quote from the Jedi code canon, because the only place I've seen that code is Kotor. I'm just curious about the source of the Jedi code.
  24. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Let's see. If I were a Jedi, I would know that spying is and extension of those lies and deceit that the Jedi are always saying the Sith use, and therefore is wrong, so I wouldn't have picked anyone. If I had to though, I'd pick someone who "wasn't one step away from committing a massive homicide."
  25. EwokThatKilled Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2005
    star 1
    So I guess you thought Obi-Wan spying on Dooku and the Seperatists in AOTC was wrong too then?
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