ST The Last Jedi clarification thread

I understood it as peace and justice go through the force, but not linked exclusively to the Jedi.

 

I think it's more that the Force/ Light will rise to meet the darkness with or without the Jedi.

 

Where else could they possibly go? They're in the vicinity of Crait and according to what is said in the film they do not have enough fuel to get to any other system at sublight.

 

Holdo’s initial plan is to pass right past Crait with the Raddus as the transports slip through undetected at the distance they are at with the impression perhaps of continuing toward
Sallust or Mallastare. Two planets with actual populations and resources of value to a Resistence Capital ship and a history of New Republic alliances and or sympathy. Crait is barren and its rebel base wasn’t known.

It’s true that it would have been impossible for them to reach either without a jump and that a jump would have emptied them but it’s potentially also true that the FO was fine hanging back and waiting and watching and trying to discover more info because if Sallust and/or Mallastare had secretly joined the fight then they’d have more to consider. I would have enjoyed a line of dialogue about that possibility personably but both planets are on the route they’re on. I would have liked a FO style board room briefing to be honest so that Johnson could have laid out more logistics and had things answered to help all fans suspend more disbelief by feeling like more things had been considered and decided upon.

Sitting back and watching and hoping the Resistance are just running for the sake of survival and being in a position to strike if need be or make adjustments if some new development occurs related to support doesn’t seem that crazy to me.

 

Are you saying you've encountered vergence in the Force? Surrounded around this...girl?

 

The thing I've noticed about her is that she isn't hindered by questions and doubt about the force. It's just always been there with her like a feeling. Luke wanted to learn about the Force and grow up to be a jedi like his father. He had to be told repeatedly to let go, unlearn what he had learned, quiet his mind to questions, and to believe in the Force. It just seems to work through her when she is in action (It controls your actions? Yes, but it also obeys your commands..) She is just open to it without overthinking it, kinda like how the first force users must have felt like before they founded orders with rules and temples for training.

 

That's because Luke needed time and training just like anyone else ever. He needed to struggle, fail and learn. This is the normal thing that happens until Rey who has no real need of such things.

Whereas she seems to obey the Force's commands even if she doesn't know how or why.

Not at all. Those Force users had to actually train for many years (unlike Rey) everything the Jedi did for over a thousand generations is based on that training which is necessary to quiet the mind to listen to the midi-chlorians speaking so that they could hear the Will of the Force.

They aren't "rules" in that sense but what is necessary. You don't need a temple for training that's just a place they used to do so.

Luke was training in a swamp et al not temples. Obviously over time forms of how to best approach training are going to be created but that is in addition to not replacing of said training.

 

Is it explained in any book/comic/any thing where Luke trained after ESB? Was there more training? He was with Yoda for a couple of days, says he will return and in ROTJ tells R2 that he has a promise to keep, thus I believe he never returned to Yoda. Someone mentioned this, and it got me thinking: Luke basically learns how to get his lightsaber by using the force at the beginning of ESB, how did he learn that trick? Obi Wan didn’t do this in ANH, just wondering what the in universe explanation is....

 

Shadows of the Empire had Luke going back to Tatooine and spending time in Obi-wan’s old hut. I don’t remember if he actually communicates with him but I remember that there are passages where he is contemplating what it means to be a Jedi, and how to go forward. That’s also where/when he built his lightsaber. But that was old EU so it’s not canon now.

As to how much time Luke spent with Yoda, it’s very ambiguous. It could be days, weeks or even months depending on how you want to interpret the timeline of ESB.

 

You took the temple part more literally than I meant it. Those who first felt the force and endeavored to learn its secrets together did so by organizing themselves, creating codes to live by, exercises to train by, constructed edifices devoted to it....I was alluding to her being tabula rasa, free of preconceived notions about what the force is, who should wield it and how. She wants Luke to answer this for her but he won't. To do so alters her perception of it. Instead of letting it flow through her at will, she will instead start considering how to use it, for what, and when. Now she commands the force but no longer is guided by it. She is guided by a code agreed upon by the grand high poobas. Sure, their hearts were in the right place at the time. But bureaucracy takes time to debate it, meditate on it. The Jedi sat down and over a thousand generations decided what they should do with their abilities, how and when. But the Force is everywhere, and it has a will. I wants to be heard and it will grant extraordinary abilities to the one who completely surrenders to it. Maybe the issue is the organized following it garners. The rigid Jedi. The wanton Sith.

According to TFA, the force had been dormant. And now it has awakened, In Rey. In Finn. In everyone. Maybe the force doesn't want a class of warrior monks and black suited mad men calling upon it. Maybe it wants someone else, to do something in particular, or inspire a new set of followers that surpass the Jedi of old in their adherence to the will of the force.

 

When or where is it said that the force gives people commands that they follow and that they need to know how and why to do that?

"It controls your actions" does not mean, "It issues you commands".

If the force controls your actions, which in part it does, you don't need to know how or why. If you are going to give it commands then that's a different story.

to be allowed to be Jedi kights of the old republic. Not before they could find the ability to use the force.

The republic is gone. The Republican Jedi order is gone.

If you are going to impose the Republican Jedi order policies on what people must do before they are capable of using the force in the common ways we've seen, then Luke would have to have been trained and lived with Obi-Wan from birth "before" he could do anything that he's seen. A lifetime with a family he could become attached to was also the antithesis of what Republican era Jedi had to endure "before" they could use the force.

What was "necessary" for the Republic order Jedi, (the, from birth, lifetime of intense training and education) was not necessary for Luke though. Was it?

 

I believe Shaddow of the empire is non-cannon. I guess i was asking cannon books, if it’s explained.

Although having Obi Wans hut would be a potential source.

 

You shouldn't need to read a book/play a video game to tell you something important that the movies failed to convey anyway.

 

Ok....this might be a stretch.....could..could it be possible, that kylo saved Leia from space? He hesitated to shoot/kill her...is there any chance in heck he saved mommy dearest?

 

I would say there is nothing in the film that suggests he did.

 

Don’t see how. And I wouldn’t want him to. That was all Leia. Her big Force moment.

 

I think he is simply personally not able/willing to kill her.
He watched the Starkiller base targeting her planet - and did nothing
He could not shoot her in TLJ but did nothing to avoid anyone else to do so
He orders the attack on Crait but does not go by himself to hunt Leia.

So obviously he is fine that Leia gets killed. Why should he save her from space then?

 

In the new Marvel comics run of Star Wars it has Oh Wan writing in a journal that Luke later recovers. Though SOTE is now noncanon, certain aspects seemed to have been ported over like Luke returning to Bens hut looking for answers

 

I’m really hoping Rey’s origins and her strength with the Force are explained in IX. Perhaps the answers to those questions reside back on Jakku? It’s clear as day in my eyes that she was lied to by Kylo about her parents

 

I just hope something at all is revealed in IX about why LF said this was a new trilogy in the Skywalker saga. Kylo Ren is cool, and he has something of an opposite in Rey, but nothing is happening all that much to make me want to know what happens next or why these events are chronicled in the saga at this point in time.

 

Apart from Kylo, Leia and Luke being key players in this trilogy?

 

I'm genuinely surprised to hear when anyone declares they have no interest in the Skywalkerness of the saga going into IX.

Is it not fascinating that Kylo Ren has surpassed his Grandfather's career pinnacle and is, to all intents and purposes, the ruler of the galaxy going into the last act?

 

Well yeah but they are kinda out of it now save for Kylo, and we just didn't get much to go on with him in the slightest. TFA made it seem as if he believed he had a mission that only he could accomplish if he grew strong enough in the dark side. Aside from doing what bad guys do in TLJ we didn't gain much more insight into him. Now it's too late to see him vs his mother, and Rey has no real burning reason to save him other than it would be a nice thing to do. His motives are no clearer nor do we know why he struggles with the call to the light and such.

 

I don't know if I'd say he surpassed Vader in any way. Snoke clearly was no Sidious try as he may. Parlortricks aside he was faking the funk in the dark side. The FO aren't as mighty either with their oversized knockoff imperial stuff . This isn't making any sense