ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

No.

 

According to Wookieepedia the mouse droids were only 25 centimeters high, while Ewoks were a full one meter high.

 

Nopey McNopington.

Ohhh.....

 

The originals obviously have a few comic and over the top moments but I think they keep to a much more serious tone overall than TFA. Even the Ewoks in ROTJ remain much more self contained were as TFA is full of more cartoonish elements thoughout, the characters themselves, a great many of the alien designs, the constant cheesey humour, etc. Again I think TFA is much closer to Abrams Trek films than a lot of people here care to admit, it takes some of its visuals more directly from the originals than Trek did and cuts down a bit of the hyperactive camera work and lens flare but behind that I think you have a very similar film.

 

The movie opened by following a bleeping, walking dustbin and a bickering shiny golden butler engaging in one sided conversation while a gunfight is exploding all around them and then continuing like this while on Tatooine. It's like the Out Of Towners with robots in space. And it is consistently humorous from then on. The movie wasn't camp but it was considered VERY funny for "sci-fi" at the time.

Empire Strikes Back is funny too but in a slightly different way. It relied more on Han constantly bumbling around with the Falcon and bickering with 3-PO (since the droids were split up).

I think that the accusations that TFA is cartoony by comparison are a bit weird, considering A New Hope showcases animated chess game with slapstick comedy violence in it and regularly resorts to it throughout the movie. R2 wants to go off in a different direction, 3PO kicks him in the butt, R2 won't give up the message, 3-PO whacks him over the head, 3-PO is startled and falls backward Clouseau style, A tentacle grabs Luke and Chewie acts like the cartoon elephant frightened by a mouse etc, etc, etc.

And we all loved it.

 

Nice one, bro.

 

Honestly though for me this is a rather simplified view that ignores the differences in the way comedy can be used onscreen, I think the OT generally avoids using comedy in a fashion that damages the credibility of the situation where as TFA doesn't care as much about this and indeed seems to actively look to undermine its credibility,

You look at R2 and 3PO at the start of ANH for example and yes there is a bit of a comedic element to them and some tweeness to their and the Jawa's designs but you still clearly get the sense that there situation is very serious. A lot of the banter between them has quite a caustic edge to it as well which idneed applies to the OT and ANH especially as a whole.

Abrams just doesn't have the same kind of respect for the credibility of his setting or characters IMHO hence he includes much broader comedy much more often and does not look to keep it as confined to certain parts of the plot or certain characters.

 

The credibility or seriousness of the situation in TFA was not damaged at any point for me. If two droids can walk across a corridor while people at either end exchange a sustained volley of laser blasts at each other without either of them being hit and the situation does not lose credibility then I think it is safe to say that the movies are not meant to be taken that seriously. I think "caustic edge" is rather reaching. 3PO is pissed that he's been cast away onto a desert planet and his counterpart with the personality of a toddler is attempting to call the shots.

The design of the Jawas never bothered me. I didn't know what a credible Jawa is or should look like. I do know that once they escape from the Tantive IV, the droid who has been given the plans that are intended to save the rebellion and the galaxy is accompanied by comical tuba music in the sequences where he is captured then, miraculously, is immediately taken across a vast desert straight be sold to a guy who's foster kid happens to know the person that Leia's message is intended for. That's an incredible story, but the danger of damaged credibility of the seriousness of the situation, tuba score and all, was never an issue then or now.

Can you give an example where the credibility of the seriousness of the situation was damaged by the comedy in TFA, or where the film actively sought to undermine its own credibility in the eyes of the audience? You say there are differences between the way TFA and ANH uses them but have not provided them.

 

You've actually WATCHED the OT, right? You saw all the weird Cantina aliens? The cheesy/witty banter? I mean, you SAW Salacious Crumb and Sy Snootles, right? I mean, Chewie did a freakin' TARZAN YELL in ROTJ. Oh yeah, that's "much more serious." Sheesh.

 

I actually think the Cantina aliens show some of the difference very well, whilst like R2/3PO and the Jawa's they do obviously have a larger than life edge to them the scene as a whole clearly does have a lot of seriousness and threat to it and indeed part of it comes from playing this against the "muppet" view people might have. TFA on the other hand casts its aliens in a much more cartoonish and lighter fashion, even Plutt its more of a panto villain shaking his fist at the heroes rather the stone cold psychos Luke meets at the bar.

ROTJ does start to introduce some lighter elements(and as I'v said before I think the Endor/Ewok stuff is closest to the general tone of TFA) but I think it does a much better job of keeping it separate from more serious material. In Jaba's Palace for example Crumb and the other more cartoonish stuff is more linked to 3PO whilst Jaba himself is an evil calculating psychopath that the main heroes deal with. You get the diversion with the Ewoks but this is very clearly kept entirely separate from the Luke/Vader and Endor space battle plots. In TFA though doesn't show this kind of restraint and constantly reverts to humour that ends up undermining serious situations.

The tone of the majority of humour in the OT is actually quite caustic with characters like Han and Leia making witty remarks in a pretty realistic fashion, TFA on the other hand I'd say clearly shifts towards something much goofier that again plays into the world being something more cartoonish and over the top just as with Abrams Trek films. As I said before I think this is deliberate as well and quite inline with a lot of recent blockbusters, SW like Trek is viewed by many as something that was spoiled by taking itself too seriously and being too geeky and a lot of the humour is I think specifically creating to that "see were not taking things too seriously, you can relax and have some fun".

 

Whaaaaat ???? Did you watch the OT at all ???

They are trying to rescue Han from death, but at the same time we have a stupid blue elephant (Max Rebo) playing a silly piano and a horrendous cheesy character almost kissing the screen ...

Credibility ????

Ok, one year have passed since TFA, and the arguments on this thread are becoming more weird every day.

I miss the old days where people complained that TFA was a rehash of ANH. Even if it is not really the case, it was a better complaint.

 

I do not get your claim at all that the TFA aliens were "cartoony." I mean, how? Sure there are some light moments, but that's Star Wars. I mean, we didn't have anything like the goofy dianoga, for example. Dr. Evazan was great, but hardly super serious. I mean Plutt did send some thugs after Rey (and she proceeded to kick their ass). he would have been even more threatening if they had included the Maz's castle scene (and we would have had the additional parallel of him loosing his arm to Chewbacca).

We'll have to disagree. I personally found the humor in TFA spot on. It was in context, and offered the right light touches at the right moments. I hope Rian and Trevor manage the same deftness.

 

Agreed.

In the OT the humor was really clever and unobtrusive. The walking carpet remark or Luke's putting down to Han's idea about him and Leia in ANH or the professor remark in TESB or Han's and 3PO's exchange in the Ewok village were great. TFA introduced BB-8 who shifted towards physical humor, but I feel there was too much of it, like they really tried to make him funny, and there's Finn whose remarks don't fit his character and sometimes he's really annoying (like the boyfriend remark, when Maz goes on the table or when he gloats on Phasma). Oh, and some of Han's jokes fell flat (like, You're cold?).

 

Bland characters (aside from Finn) and uninspired world-building are my biggest complaints. Usually I like Star Wars because it delivers both dramatically and in terms of design creativity, and TFA fell very short in both areas.

 

Those moments all hit with me. What can I say? Finn reminds me very much of one of my best friends from High School.

 

I'd say Evazan was a hell of a lot more serious than Plutt in both look and character. The latter is basically a fat ugly guy who ends up running at the camera shouting "that's mmmmy ship!" in an over the top fashion, the latter comes across as a dangerous horribly scared psycho happy to kill Luke and the encounter ends with someones arm brutally cut off lying on the ground. Compare say the Rathnars with Jabba's palace, the latter has some comic touches but the general confrontation is played very seriously for the most part with Jabba himself and a number of action scenes, the Ratnars on the other hand are played for comedy as is Han's reaction to the smugglers rather than the gallows humour in ROTJ.

I think it goes back to the point I mentioned a few times previously that the OT films aren't really the "classic 80's blockbusters" there often talked up as, theres also a hell of a lot of the harder edged new wave style there which I think TFA simply does not replicate.

Not that I think its a bad film at all but the idea that its a return to the style of the OT is simply not something I can agree with, it takes a few elements from the OT doubtless but really this is a JJ Abrams film, not that surprising considering he wrote and directed it and Disney hired him coming off the back of two similar films for Trek being successful.

 

There is no need to question if someone has seen the OT.

 

Yeah, the rather dodgy mask was "a lot more serious." and the "I have the death mark on 12 systems!" and "you'll be dead!!!" yeah, not a a bit over the top. Of COURSE it was a bit goofy and over the top. That's what Star Wars IS. It's larger than life. We have villains we love to hate! We have heroes who call each other "nerf herders," "your worshipfulness," and "laser brain." We have giant space slugs. I think your argument is flat out ridiculous. You are, of course, free to disagree, but I gotta say, this argument feels thin.

Heh.... that, my friend, is called rhetorical sarcasm. I wasn't literally questioning if he had seen the OT.

 

I agree with a lot of your post - except for this. This cracked me up so hard in the theatre that I missed the next minute of the film.

But yes, for me the humour for this film felt like it's coming straight out of a Disney/Marvel movie. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing as I love most of those films). You could easily picture Paul Rudd or Chris Pratt delivering Finn's lines the same way. Finn's Phasma freak out, the "cute boyfriend" and the "why are you shaking your head like that?" bits worked on first viewing with a howling packed theatre - but kinda makes me cringe now on subsequent viewings.

"The droid...stole a freighter?" may just be the funniest line in the entire saga though.

 

Indeed.

 

I know, and I am saying there is no need for it. Belittling a fellow forum poster just because you disagree with their position should not be seen as acceptable behavior.

 

You are imbuing it with way more meaning than I put in to it.

 

Adam Driver added just the right amount of Dr. Evil to the mix.

 

I agree. for the record, Rogue One based on the clips and the recent International trailer seem much better in this regard. but i also believe Edwards gets Star Wars on a deeper level than Abrams can grasp. Abrams i believe view Star Wars through a much more superficial lens. but yes the dialogue in TFA could be super cringey at times. TFA just didnt really feel like Star Wars in conversation. It really only felt like Star Wars when it was beating you over the head with nostalgic scenery and the musical score blasting in the background. I actually felt that TFA dumbed down SW dialogue. hopefully Rogue One is a return to what we love about these characters and the way they interract.