ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

There wasn't a Hitchcock cameo

 

There kinda was...

Alfred Hitchcock said: "The McGuffin is the thing that the spies are after but the audience doesn't care." In the treatment Skywlker and Leia are carrying with the "the Aura Spice" (The McGuffin!), and the two bureaucrats join them in their journey with the intention of stealing it along with one of their speeders. The spice was eventually replaced by the plans of the Death Star that Artoo carries in his unit.

George Lucas: "You always have to have something that everybody is after, something that's not necessarily tied directly to the plot. The nice thing abou the plan is that it pays off at the end of the film. You always want the McGuffin to be the thing that clicks the final climax....You reveal it, and it culminates or perpetuates the climax." - The Annotated Screenplays

The map to Skywalker.

 

A couple of these are easy.

Finn has no idea that's Poe in the X-Wing. He recognizes the black X-Wing after the battle is over, and goes to the ship to meet this incredible pilot and thank him. He doesn't know it is Poe until he sees him. He's actually shocked that Poe is alive. Note that we don't get a good look at Poe until BB-8 goes racing by Finn on his way to greet his master. Only then does Finn realize who it is.

As for R2 'waking up' I think the explanation about BB-8 saying something to him about 'We have the missing piece to the map to find your master' works. Remember, R2 isn't a human being. He's not in a coma. He's aware of his surroundings. He's just ignoring everyone until he hears something to bring him back. He is in the corner until Luke returns/needs him. When BB-8 communicates something useful to him, he wakes up. The better question is, why didn't BB-8 tell him about the map the first time they are together, not why did it happen at all. Perhaps BB-8 doesn't know what he was carrying until the end?

If anything TFA further enhances the intellect and 'humanity' of droids. BB-8 clearly loves Poe. R2-D2 clearly loves Luke. They are lost without their masters, much like pets.

 

What's the point in enjoying them if you can't expect them to continue or reference those stories later?

 

I don't know, because they are good stories and you enjoy them?

 

Plot Holes Millenium Falcon addition...

The Falcon is the most famous ship in the galaxy. It allowed Luke to destroy the first Death Star and actually destroyed the second. The idea that it ends up anonymously rusting in a backwater world junkyard is a bit of a stretch. Hell, why wouldn't the money hungry junk dealer sell it back to the Republic?

Also, why was its door open and controls available to anyone who sits down in the cockpit? It would have been stolen by some low life ages ago.

Notice that it is apparently prepped for flight as well.

(As others have noted) No explanation for how Han finds it within minutes.

Again, I find the screenplay to be just so lazy. They know what they wanted to happen (rehash) and didn't care to make it believable or logical.

Related- When did Rey learn to fly spaceships? While scraping out a subsistence level existence as a scavenger that never left that planet even once until now? At least with Luke we knew he piloted ships on Tatooine previously and it made sense given his bio (e.g. not homeless like Rey)

 

First, I like the movie a lot. But... This this this this this...

perfect summery of how I feel about it, regarding the "mathematical formula".
I'm not bothered as much by not knowing everything. We shouldn't. We didn't in the OT as well.

 

First, I loved the movie. I've seen it 3 times. (Disclaimer, I loved the prequels and saw them 5 times or more each in the theater; I also saw all of the Original movies in the theater too many times to count)

The things that I didn't like were:
-Didn't feel like Star Wars. Others have said the same thing. I believe it is missing Lucas' touch. This was like a cover band trying to be Led Zeppelin. The real Zeppelin had flaws, but damn were they amazing.
-I hated the "state of the galaxy" and lack of explaining. I've read the novel, I totally understand the state of the galaxy, but the movie did little to explain it or make me care about it. It was an after thought. And beyond that, I didn't like what they came up with. Just my opinion.
-I absolutely hated how the Falcon was not in Han's possession, how it just happens to be sitting where Rey is, unsecured, prepped for flight, unlocked and ready to go. Totally unbelievable. Then, Han is able to find it within minutes. Why couldn't he find it before?
-Rey was an amazing character, totally like her. But, she was a little too over the top. She can pilot the Falcon like a badass just like that. She can beat Kylo, just like that. I get it, she's probably Luke's daughter and has surpassed memories and was probably trained. But it was a little over the top.
-Kylo was a mess. First, he has these amazing powers, he can stop blaster shots in mid air, he can cause people to pass out, he can read your mind, but Finn was able to last more than a few seconds against him and Rey beat his ass. I don't care if he's hurt or not. It doesn't make sense. On one hand, he's completely overpowered. On the other hand, he sucks. Make up your mind.
-I hated how the Bespin Saber is calling out to Rey.... Since when do physical objects take on a life of their own in Star Wars.
-Hated the cargo ship scene with the Rathtars.
-Overall, as others have pointed out, to me, it felt as if Abrams was just trying to make a movie people liked. Rather than telling a story, he was using a formula. Felt stale or sterile.
-I didn't like the look of some of the effects. They looked more like fake models than real ships IMO.


Let me conclude by saying, I could make a list for each of the previous 6 movies. There are things I love and things I hate about all of them.

 

That TFA negates character arcs throughout the saga. Luke essentially tells the princess that in time she will come to understand the force

 

Crikey...I must be watching a totally different film...

 

Yes, but the map was mentioned much sooner...R2 woke up later with no one talking to him.

 

Also, I've noticed an interesting trend... the first week the movie was out, all the reviews on most media sites were overwhelmingly positive. In the past week, I've noticed more and more using more caution, for example, "the film has been generally well received".

 

Meh, do we really need to go through all the blatant contradictions in the PT? Heck, there are even some contradictions between the individual movies in the OT

 

Yes, I'm sure everyone is finally realizing that the movie is terrible right? Please... you are seeing what you want to see

 

I don't think the movie is terrible. I liked it enough to see it 3 times in the first week an preorder it on iTunes. I just think some of the "OMG its the best ever" from the media has been over the top. I've thought all along that when its all said and done, it will even out after the hype dies down.

 

Give me some examples because almost everyone i know did not seem to grasp how brilliant they are.

 

Yeah sorry man, I pulled the trigger to fast on that... there are a lot of people trolling about "the huge turnaround"... you clearly aren't one of them.

Apologies.

 

Kylo Renn being discount Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.

First Order being discount Empire.

Resistance being discount Rebellion.

BB-8 being discount R2-D2.

Snoke being discount Emperor.

Jakku being discount Tatooine.

Ice Planet ( Cant remember its name ) being discount Hoth.

Starkiller being disc....ok, upgraded Death Star.

Maz being discount Yoda.

Poe Dameron being discount Wedge Antilles.

Hux being discount Tarkin.

Rey being discount Katniss Everdeen.

Stormtrooper Steve being discount Magnaguard.

Wexley being discount Porkins.

Final attack on Starkiller base being discount final Death Star attack in ANH.

 

I've been using the phrase 'off brand'

 

First I must say to me the movie felt like; meh.

I did not care for the good guys, and found the villains really boring.

The story to me is condensing the three OT into one movie:

- First act is ANH we get the farmer/scavanger from the desert planet that gets a droid with a map/plan and needs to get into the Falcon to escape the imperials/first order in order to get the plans/map to the rebellion/resistance.
- Second act we get to be more like Empire strikes back. They go to the "alien/old sage" that has some important information/stuff and Luke's character Rey get's a memory-dump training along with visions of the future and the past. The only thing we lack is Han saying to Kylo, I'm your father (this actually happens a bit later in the movie in what is a duplicate scene to Luke and Vader on Bespin or the scene in the second DS between in ROTJ). The imperials/first order kick some behinds until General Leia arrives to bail them out. One of the good guys is encased in carbonite sorry I meant taken capture by the bad guy in the cape. The good guys make a plan to rescue the good guy from the clutches of the bad guys.
- The third act is a summary of ANH and ROTJ third acts where you have the small band of rebels/resistors attacking yet another super-weapon type planetoid thingy. Including having to disable the shield generator and having to make a trench run in order to disable/destroy it. Here we have the " Ben, I'm your father" moment and "Come back to the light side", I was almost ready for the "I feel the good in you, let go of your hate". But as a twist that everyone was not surprised, Ben kills Han echoing Vader killing Ben in ANH. This part is where we see one of the biggest problems I had with EPVII from a Star Wars perspective:

Both Finn and Rey, who have never even seen a Light Saber show a high degree of proficiency in using it.

Which means that Jedi's in general are push-overs dumb that had to train for years in order to fight with it effectively and that Kylo is a whinny punk who can be overpowered by a dumb storm-trooper and a scavanger that has never ever wielded a LS or use the force.

 

Hi Kiki-Gonn,

I think it's true the Millennium Falcon is the most famous ship in the galaxy; but in OUR galaxy.

I mean, everybody has always referred to it as a piece of junk; Luke when he first saw it in ANH, and also Leia afterwards, then I think Lando in TESB, and I'm not sure if someone also said something when Lando was piloting it in ROTJ.

Well, it was actually stolen 3 times, plus Rey and Finn taking it makes it 4 times.

I guess that happens so often because they leave the door open.

Why wouldn't it be?

Are you asking because it gave them problems in other movies?

Maybe she was familiar with the controls because she fixes that type or stuff; maybe she had to fly one while repairing it for a client or friend; maybe she saved and went to piloting school.

Don't you guys think her takeoff was kind of pathetic? I mean, at the beginning it looked as she wasn't going to make it... and then she also bumped it 3 times in that short chase.

 

I also noticed it. I think the movie is not going to age well. Even though I liked it, I admit that It might go the same way as the PT; with many people changing their opinions in time after more and more serious flaws and plot holes are found. I already heard some pretty good critics today that even I can't convince myself are just minor.

With The Phantom Menace it was the same: I loved it for a few years. Now I can't watch it without thinking in all the flaws that people have been finding and complaining about all these years. The Red Letter Media review completely demolished the opinion I had of that movie.

 

I did like how she fumbled all over the place with the Falcon, going from barely in control to pulling off some amazing flying. I don't like a lot about JJ's take on the Force (instant light saber technique, mind control, etc.) but that makes sense in the same way Anakin and Luke were great pilots before they ever heard of the Force.

 

This is from a closed thread and it's an idea that might bridge some stuff:

[ ThreeDeathstickProblem said: ↑

StarWars2015 said: ↑​

12.) Rey knows everything about everything, including how to fly and repair the Falcon better than Han Solo......wtf?​

The film says again and again that Rey knew the details of Unkar Plutt's modifications to the falcon. It stands to reason that someone who recently worked on a ship would be up to speed on its mods in a way that a previous owner obviously wouldn't. ]

This will get closed or whatever but do we know Rey is a reliable narrator? Is it perfectly sensible that Unkar Plutt had kept the MF in working flyable order by flying it around the block every month or whatever, when Rey wasn't around? She spent an awful lot of time away from Niima in the boneyard, very likely by the looks of it well over the horizon / well out of ear shot of those glorious dulcet gravelly Millennium Falcon sounds. If Unkar knew she had even a tiny bit of shine to that piece of "garbage", but valued it enough for whatever reason that he rushes out and screams/gestures, "That's MINE!", then, could he not have kept its current capability and readiness unknown to her? (And thereby offer up some shred of explanation for how JJ Abrams treats the venerable bucket of bolts and it still keeps ticking.)

 

I'm fine with those instances; as I've been saying. But for me the part where J.J. ruined it with the force was when the lightsaber called Rey. I didn't like that part at all, as I never bought the idea of objects calling out people. It would had been better if Maz simply felt the force awakening in her, and/or her tie to Luke (or whoever), and then gave her the lightsaber.