The opposite of feminism -- masculinism?

Did you know that you can be charged with sexual harassment if you stare at a woman for more than 8 seconds? What if you're trying to determine if you know her, but you can't quite place her face?

Kind of hard to remember a woman's face when you've been staring at her chest for 7 out of those 8 seconds.


EDIT: I find it sad that the only way some men can generate self-esteem and feel proud is to tear down women who celebrate their womanhood. Get a life boys. The world doesn't revolve around men as much as it used to. Change is scary.

 

Oh I'm not saying all men are innocent there. But I have had to look twice at some girls I've known. Like this girl Michelle, I last saw her in the 8th grade. And I was buying books, so I had to look twice. But yes, alas, most guys are that stupid to look at a girl's chest more than 8 seconds.


I find it sad that the only way some men can generate self-esteem and feel proud is to tear down women who celebrate their womanhood. Get a life boys. The world doesn't revolve around men as much as it used to. Change is scary.

Heehee! Yes, it doesn't. But it doesn't revolve around women either.

 

Also, we can't act "aggressive" in public. My brother and his friend almost got suspended from school for playing cops and robbers....in third grade. The teacher said they were "pretending that their hands were guns and simulating acts of violence." The school inly relented when my father threatened legal action.


Why is your assumption here that the feminists were the cause of the problem? Could it be that schools are very sensitive to kids acting out violence, even pretend, because they are being over-cautious in the wake of those horrific school shootings?

 

Why is your assumption here that the feminists were the cause of the problem? Could it be that schools are very sensitive to kids acting out violence, even pretend, because they are being over-cautious in the wake of those horrific school shootings?


I think it has to do with the fact that women have been synonymous with being passive.

 

What if the principal was a male, and the school board male dominated? Reactions to school shootings isn't a male or female issue, it is a male AND female issue.

 

Seems more like a gun-control issue to me!

 

Yes, but a male would see the difference between two little kids playing cops and robbers and two teenagers shooting up a school.

 

Why is your assumption here that the feminists were the cause of the problem? Could it be that schools are very sensitive to kids acting out violence, even pretend, because they are being over-cautious in the wake of those horrific school shootings?

Let me elaborate some more. My brohter's third grade teacher was a hard-lined feminist. She is notorious for favoring girls in her classes. I had her for third grade(way back when) and I can honestly say she was the worst teacher I've ever had. Now in class, she would have these weekly trivia contests. The winner at the end of the year would win a prize. So it's the last week of class and it's between me and some girl. Anyway she asks me some inane question which I was unable to answer. She then asks the girl to the girl to name the capital of NY state (my home state). She gets it right and wins. Then to rub salt in the wound she says, "I knew a girl would win it, because we're the best!"

Also since it was a presidential election year (1992) she asked us to write an essay about which candidate we liked and why. Only four kids chose G. Bush and those four kids (including me) all failed. We got points off for spelling, yet all the kids who were in favor of Clinton didn't get points off for spelling.

And as for the school shooting reaction, not once was that named as a reason for my brother's possible suspension. When in conference with my parents, the teacher said she felt that it was "barbaric" and "asinine" to allow kids to pretend to fight each other.

 

Ouch....that's horrible. Talk about pushing an agenda.

 

that teacher should be fired. I'm going to home school my kids. sad days indeed for public school.

Ciou-See the Sig

 

Also that whole banning Dodge ball is funny too. Man, we suck!

You know, I don't know where dodge ball was banned, but I can see why it was. I've known too many people who say dodge ball is one of their most painfull childhood memories--both physical and emotional. Plus, throw in a couple a lawyers when kids eventually get their nose broken while playing it and viola! it's banned.

As for the topic, it's kind of sad that the thread has gone from taking men's issues seriously to bashing women and the feminist movement. I am against double standards as much as the next, ahem, guy, but you don't need to thrash one ideology to prop up another. Quite frankly, I think the men's movement has a few points that are strong enough to stand on their own such as:

1) Men's right to raise their children

We all know how biased the court system is. In the past, women almost 100% of the time got full custody of their children unless their was something greviously wrong with them. Today, this has changed a little, thanks to advocate's for men. Although there is a long way to go, many men are now getting the chance to have split custody, full custody, and provisions that prevent their ex's from moving to another state, etc.

2) Changes in the child support system

No matter how much the woman makes, 9 times out of 10, she will get child support even if she isn't the full custodial parent. This system was started to protect women from men dumping them with the full responsibility of childbearing, but now it is almost a "reward" for conning a guy into fatherhood.

3) Changes in prenups and alimony laws

While I agree that a woman who leaves her job to domestically support her husband and raise their children should be given a means of getting back on her feet, the alimony laws as they stand are completely rediculous. If a woman finds a rich enough man stupid enough to not file a prenup, she can be married to him for a very short period at no expense to her career, etc, and be set up for a life time (by not re-marrying). This is a prime example of double-standards. Secondly, any prenup that is signed by both parties needs to be honored as-is. No going back for more. Prenups are notorious for getting hacked to pieces in divorce court.

4) Changes in sexual harassment law

Sexual harassment law was developed to protect women from the very real threat of being coherced into giving sexual favors in order for promotion, or in some cases, to keep their jobs AND to protect women from hostile work environments. However, the laws have been so over-extended that anytime a woman is offended by something, she can sue for sexual harassment. This was neither the intent nor the purpose of sexual harassment laws.

Personally, I see the men's movement as a legal movement to help BALANCE some of the laws that have swung wildly into women's favor.


**note I call it the men's movement. I find the word masculinist implies a superiority of men over women and that it makes the movement sound like he-man ugh!ugh fluff, which it isn't.

 

So feminism doesn't sound superior?

Also, Dodge ball is JUST a game boohoo so some kid got out. Better luck next game.

 

This system was started to protect women from men dumping them with the full responsibility of childbearing, but now it is almost a "reward" for conning a guy into fatherhood.

Conning a guy into fatherhood....Hmmmm, that's a new one. I think that you'll find that very few women 'con' their boyfriend/partner/husband into fatherhood.

As for dodgeball, we had a very similar game down in here in Australia which was banned when I was in primary school. That was mainly to do with injuries and the fact that bullies would pick on other kids that they didn't like and throw the ball really, really hard. Kids ended up loosing teeth and breaking noses/jaws etc. That is why it is banned down here.

Kithera

 

Well, the term feminism was coined as opposition to the masculinism found in the dominant culture. I choose to use the term men's movement because it summarizes the goals and ideals of the movement much better than "masculinism".

Secondly, if your kid came home with a broken nose that YOU had to pay for, I'm sure you would be at the school's office demanding reimbursement. It's a simple case of economics. I'm not going to argue the merits of dodgeball anyway since it's not on topic.

I find it interesting that out of the points I made, you came up with that response.

 

You don't think women intentionally get pregnant without their lover knowing?

Well, it happens. If a woman decides she wants to be a mother, she also decides a man gets to be a father regardless of his thoughts on the matter. Of course, a smart man will bring his own condoms to the bedroom each and every time.

 

See, I think women like that are just greedy people who want money. A woman who wants a child and either has no partner, or a partner who doesn't want financial responsibility for a child, can be artificially inseminated. But it can be hard to prove she intentionally got pregnant against the man's wishes, since no birth control but permanent sterilization is 100% effective.

 

I am a PROUD, STRAIGHT, WHITE, MALE.

Do you understand?

Good.

Men and women are equal, but different. If a woman(Womyn? ) sexually harassed me, would I be able sue? For some reason I doubt it.

There was once a boy who was molested by his babysitter. The girl got pregnant. That man is around 30 now and he still pays child support.



Isn't that splendid.

I treat women differently from men. I treat women with respect; I open their doors; I do not harm them; I protect them from harm; and I treat the way deserve to be treated: like the ladies they are.

For doing this, I am called a sexist, a chauvinist, a fascist, among other things.

Sentences are not as tough for women as men. Is this equal? I think not. Men pay higher car insurance for being male. Is that equal? I think not.

If I am proud of being what I am, I am a racist because I am proud of being white, a sexist because I am proud of being male, a homophobe because I am proud of being straight, and a fascist for being conservative.

If I am killed for being a straight, white male, my killers will not be prosecuted for a hate crime. No one take care of my civil rights.

I am angry.

 

Well, the term feminism was coined as opposition to the masculinism found in the dominant culture. I choose to use the term men's movement because it summarizes the goals and ideals of the movement much better than "masculinism".

It's still a double standard.

Secondly, if your kid came home with a broken nose that YOU had to pay for, I'm sure you would be at the school's office demanding reimbursement. It's a simple case of economics. I'm not going to argue the merits of dodgeball anyway since it's not on topic.

Actually they can break their nose at any time of school property. They could trip and fall. Do we demand the school pay for that too?

I find it interesting that out of the points I made, you came up with that response.

All of your points were valid, IMO, except those two.

Also I never said women didn't do such a thing. They do in fact, and it's wrong. I say sue her for everything she's worth (very little I'm guessing?) if she pulls that crap.

 

Men pay higher car insurance for being male.

Well, I think my dad explained that to me. Insurance companies are greedy. Men get into more accidents. The insurance companies want more money as a result. If they are private companies, which they are, it is their right.

There was once a boy who was molested by his babysitter. The girl got pregnant. That man is around 30 now and he still pays child support.

Well, I disagree with that. Victims of sexual assault should not have to pay child support, since the sex was not consensual.

 

Well, I think my dad explained that to me. Insurance companies are greedy. Men get into more accidents. The insurance companies want more money as a result. If they are private companies, which they are, it is their right.

I know. That is logical.

Let us pretend that women instead get into more car accidents and insurance companies make them pay more.

Feminist groups would fall on those insurance companies in a second. No one would get insurance from them.

If a study were done and it was found that blacks get into more car crashes than whites, and insurance were raised for blacks, the ACLU and other liberal groups would destroy them.

I'm sorry, but that's not fair.

It's called discrimination. We pay higher insurance because we are males. That is wrong.

 

I say that private companies that recieve no federal money can do whatever they want. People who are unhappy can go elsewhere. That's the way our economy works.

 

I find it interesting that out of the points I made, you came up with that response.

Actually, that was the one that I found interesting. I agree with you on the rest Men are severely disadvantaged in the family court system and the situation does need to be rectified. I can't speak for America, only from my own experiance down here in Australia. Men should be granted more responsibility and more acess to their child. Unfortunately, society's mindset still seems to be that the mother is the only person who can truly care for that child and the father cannot...a statement that is blantly false.

As for the alimony, again I can't comment. We don't have that in Australia, it isn't something that I'm familiar with. From what I've heard it seems like a fairly stupid law to begin with, however, I've only heard bad stuff about it from American friends. So I really can't comment.

As for the sexual harrasment, I think it is stupid that someone can be called up for it for staring at a woman for 8 seconds. I mean who really measures how long they've been staring? Do you sit there with a stop watch and after they've been staring at your chest for 7 seconds, you go "Right buddy, if you stare for another second I'm calling my lawyer."?

I fully support the sexual harrasment laws staying as they are down here. Sexual harrasment happens in my workplace all the time, and especially from my boss. I can't really say anything (although other workmates have), because most of us are casual workers and we can lose our job all too easily. If I could say something, I would because it is demeaning and it does make you feel horrible.

I'm sorry if I'm not making that much sense, but I just woke up.

Cheers
Kithera

Edit: Stupid bally spelling mistakes!

 

As for the topic, it's kind of sad that the thread has gone from taking men's issues seriously to bashing women and the feminist movement. I am against double standards as much as the next, ahem, guy, but you don't need to thrash one ideology to prop up another. Quite frankly, I think the men's movement has a few points that are strong enough to stand on their own such as:

True, but I think an issue could also be made for the case that the advancement of feminism has come at the cost of the decline of masculinism. While it seems that every other group out there gets more and more rights, the rights of white males either stay the same of decrease. And this has nothing to do with power or dominance, as many claim. What is at the heart of the matter is that there is a group who is starting to feel maligned.

 

That could be it. But I don't see any million white man marches. The KKK gives hetero white males a bad name. Really. I believe if it weren't for them white guys could say they're proud to be white. But no, nowadays we must hide in the shadows and not mention such things because they're too controversial, or they might offend someone.

 

I say that private companies that recieve no federal money can do whatever they want. People who are unhappy can go elsewhere. That's the way our economy works.

Agreed.

However, why aren't the feminist groups out there trying to make sure that men and women have equal rights?

What I am angry about is the fact that no one cares about that: The double standard.