The Tenth EUC Starfighter Draft: The New Pilot Order - Congratulations Talon_Kenobi

Gavin < Han

Pash < Kyp

Pash is good, but Kyp is great. Force FTW here. And the experience? Pash was regular military which means he spent long stretches of time just chilling (like the two years between the Bacta War and TTT where he was babysitting some outrim comm. Station). With Kyp, he spent the Vong war looking for fights- he was the first to fight them, and fought them every step of the way.

Inyri < Ace

Loads of years in the Rogues is good. Making General and earning a Kalidor crescent and having loads of missions we know about is better.
List of the missions he flew-
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_X-wing_Alliance

Asyr > Anakin

I suppose, but it?s pretty close. Anakin?s peaks were just as high (if not higher) than Asyr?s last battle. And he, you know, didn?t get shot down in them.

Face =< Kell

Alinn < Lowbacca

We know nothing about Alinn. Nothing. Yeah she was good enough to be a flight leader with the Rogues, but so was Rhysati. And Lowbacca has the same vong war which is Varth?s only know experience. Plus the force.

Shalla = Miko
Lara >Runt
I question this but its not worth it.

Yeah, skill is mine.

Experience, sure, you win the ?we see them piloting at X, and we see them piloting at Y so we know they experience XY!? Not that we have many details on their experience, but so be it. My squad isn?t exactly lacking- really only Anakin, Miko and Runt are weak in the experience category (and with Anakin, you can?t tell- Mara Jade said herself he emitted the calm of a seasoned pilot in battle). I?m not worried.

Cohesion? Eh?my squad isn?t exactly chopped meat here. Kyp considers Han his best friend. Miko and Kyp were master/apprentice so that?s tight. Anakin is Han?s son, and we know both of them know Lowbacca well. Oh, and Lowbacca and Anakin know Miko. Kell and Runt are tight, and Han has commanded both of them before. Of course, throw in the meld and then its all pretty good.


Leadership? Leadership is such a stupid category for this draft- this is a small group of elite pilots. I think they?d do fine with out a clear leader. But if you really want to tussle, I?d throw Han against Gavin any day of the week. Han was a general, you know. And he was put in charge entire fleets (Hunt for Zsinj, Blackfleet Crisis, The Emperor?s Plague [oh yeah, I went there ) - including being in command of Gavin himself at points! He manages to lead the smugglers Alliance in their brilliant defense of Ebaq 9- no small order! Not to mention he is uniquely suited for this squad- a bunch of non-traditional pilots who he has personal connections with and understand and trust his thinking. He?ll do brilliantly with them.

As for the rest of the stuff, umm sure. I don?t see how having like 6 leaders on your squad is at all relevant- I doubt the need for one, but I have that one. Oh, and Kyp, you know, a jedi master and squadron leader of his own. And Ace, a General. Oh, and just for kicks, you know who was in charge of a squadron of jedi at the beginning of Star by Star and then lead them also on Mrykr? Anakin (and that Jedi squadron had Jaina in it!).

So, really, I have individually better pilots, particularly at the top. I have skill and force. Honestly, cohesion isn?t a major factor either way- both are good. You have the experience edge. Leadership? I?ll take that one also if you want to throw that into the ring.

 

It's closer than that, Han doesn't have a significant amount of time in starfighters which is why it's closer.

Using the Force as a reason is lazy. It doesn't have that big an effect in a dogfight.

Secondly Pash is more than just merely good. Untouchable in training. Flew in the nasty Battle of Coruscant. Made a wing leader upon graduation from the Imperial Academy.

Finally, I doubt they'd allow a group of pilots to "just chill" for two years. Most likely they were on patrol.

WHAT!?

Let me just list some battles and campaigns, Bacta War, Bilbringi, Zsinj, Thrawn, Dantooine, Borleas, Ebaq 9, Vong War, ever hear of those? If there was a major battle between NR forces and Imperials or Vong, most likely the Rogues were there.

No, not really that close. What Asyr went through was much tougher than what Anakin ever went through in a starfighter.

First you don't make Major in NR forces by lacking in skill.

Second, how long does it logically take to make Major in NR military?

Besides what we do see her surviving was pretty nasty.

No no no no no no no no no. Miko flew a bit, got ambushed by a squadron of skippers and is captured, That. is. it.

Shalla has much much more going for her with the Zsinj campaign. Secondly she became the third Lieutenant promoted within Wraith Squadron under Wedge's command. You earn those promotions with him.

You better be: Your pilots
Gavin-23.5 years combat experience Less (most of his ce is in the Falcon)
Pash-22 years combat experience Much less
Inyri-23.5 years combat experience Much less
Asyr-2.5-3 years combat experience Much less
Face-3-3.5 years combat experience Equal
Alinn-5-10 years probable combat experience Less
Shalla-3-6 months combat experience Much less
Lara - 1-3 months combat experience More

Here's an example of how much Experience matters: When Phanan asked about the best pilot he specifically asked for Wedge and Wes for their opinions since they were a different generation of pilots. Experience gap? 4-6 years.

 

First: The force does have a big effect. See I, Jedi. And this is with Kyp, who is much much better with the force than Corran was(or is). And Kyp did his vong war shennagins without that type of benefit. Again someone who can sense? I'm thinking Kyp handles this.

Second: No, Pash wasn't a wingleader. He convinced his wing to defect. Charismatic, sure. Wingleader, no.

Finally: In the Last command Wedge specifically says Pash was "babysitting" (his words, not mine) a commstation.

Bacta war was a series of easy raids with one tough battle at the end, and the ambush at Alderaan as another sort of tough one. That's nothing. She also dissapears after Balance Point.

My mistake. I forgot that getting trained and fighting in a full powered starfighter against a well known enemy who technology you understand is harder than flying as an untrained 16 year old in a tie fighter with one laser in only the second battle ever against an enemy who's tech makes no sense.

Everything we see her survive Lowie survives also. He also has the force, which in this case when they opponents know feats are exactly the same, I think is enough to tip it in his favor.

Shalla flew for a bit but mainly did commando stuff during zsinj, then went into intel. That. is. it.

Like I said, I don't care about those long numbers that we know little about. In terms of actual, you know, experience that we see, my squad is fine. And just a special for Han, considering Han started piloting, umm, right about the time of Gavin's BIRTH and he's still piloting five years after we see Gavin on a capital ship in the killik crap, I think he'll be ok.

 

First Kyp is no Corran when it comes to piloting and Pash is regarded in having more skill than Corran. With I, Jedi, most of what Corran got out of it was passive Force powers once he got in a dogfight. We haven't seen other powers in the books used by yourself in a dogfight.

Second, I believe when you convince your wing to defect and they defer to your command, the proper term is Wing Leader. And I also belive when that wing showed up at a base, the Alliance gave Pash command.

It also looks like that was a term of mock jealousy from one commander to another.

By the way, it was mentioned that Pash is considered one of the best commanders.

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Ok, she disappears to do what? She doesn't die, so the logical conclusions are that she's given a squadron, or she's still with the Rogues through the Vong War and doesn't get mentioned. Easy raids, maybe. Easy but potentially very dangerous. Remember what happened when jumped by the Vic?


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Ahh, Asyr's first combat experience was in Z-95 on Coruscant against some pretty bad odds. Yeah that's easy.

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So Varth being a Major in Rogue Squadron means nothing? Guess Kissek Doran has a chance after all with the Rogues. What we see indicated that it could be equal, but what it takes to get in Varth's position requires much much more than what we see with Lowie.

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Well one of Shalla's first missions was that little 6 vs 36 fight in a squint. That little fight vs 2 SSDs, and oh the entirety of Solo Command. There's quite a lot of fighting in there. Much much more than we see from Miko.

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Most of what we've seen is a hell of a lot more than what we've seen from your pilots except Han. And Han still has very little starfighter experience. That said, experience is huge. I mean who are the pilots that tend to survive? Those with more experience.

Besides, if Rogue Squadron is present between times where pilots are mentioned, doesn't it mean that those pilots are there?

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I believe Typo came up with a cohesion chart for these instances. Highest were actual wingpairs. Then it was within the same flight or squadron (wouldn't make much of a difference.) After that it'd probably be in a combat group aboard a capital ship ie Rogue, Wraith, Polearm, and Nova. After that would be same battle. After that is side. Beyond that is a black hole.

Personal links are generally outside these categories, but it also depends on how well they know each other and how well they know each other can fly.

The vast majority of my cohesion links are in those top three categories. Can't say the same about yours.

 

I CAME UP WITH THAT CHART AND DON'T YOU DARE USE IT AGAINST ME!

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And "I mean who are the pilots that tend to survive? Those with more experience. "

uh, or those with more experience get that experience because, you know, they survived.


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I have some more points I could make but I'll save them for the morning, but judges can judge, if they want (PLEASE JUST JUDGE ALREADY).

 

Just did. Besides the irony is fascinating.

 

Judges?

 

No.

 

ouch.

 

I say we just shut up until the judges decide. Most of the information is out there and you can find info on any of our pilots in either the books, Wookiepedia or starwars.com Databank. Quality varying though.

 

I say I just let Jello decide who he wants to play in the next round and move on.

 

What about Talon?

 

Can my title be: I got colors and judges got game bans?

 

Okay, even though I still really don't have time for this (or any long judgments and/or debates for drafts in general at the moment), I'm gonna try to squeeze in all that crap little by little today.

And don't expect me to apologize for the wait, either.

Han > Gavin
Kyp => Pash
Ace > Inyri
Anakin <= Asyr
Kell > Face
Lowie => Varth
Miko < Shalla
Erk... er, Runt => Lara

Skill, IMO, is solidly with the SoS. Just more talent, especially in the top five.

And Force, yeah. With a great meld-leader.

Scum definitely has more experience, but then, SoS, is hardly lacking in some excellent known experience themselves. And really, we've seen quite a bit more out of them in terms of how they specifically performed in many of their battles... but that really just kind of ends up translating into skill, I suppose... anyways, experience to Scum.

And cohesion to Scum, but yeah, it's in no way a blowout. SoS keeps it close with a pretty tight unit themselves, and indeed, it seems to be a near-perfect squad for Han to be in charge of.

The cohesion gap isn't wide enough IMO for me to vote against the superior Force-enhanced skillz of the SoS here.

Winner: Squad of Suck

Meant to explain better, but so much for having any sort of time here. Gotta go again, so I had to cut it short.

 

other judges?

 

I more or less agree with that.




I also have a few things to say about Lowie, who was unfairly put down vs Varth. Byt this time Lowie has had at least a good ten years of experience. The five years of the Vong War, and then the neat constant fighting with warlords up to the Swarm War (and the impression I got was a lot of that included flying), and we still see him flying in LOTF, though we don't know how much he's been doing since. Also, Varth may have been a flight leader in Rogue Squadron, but wasn't Lowie a flight leader in Twin Suns?

That's not my reasoning of course, my feelings are more or less like Surron and NYJ, but I felt that should be addressed.

 

Semi Final

Match 34 Rakish Rebel Scum Mk 2 (4) vs. Scondren's Squad of Suck (4)

Good effort from adaml. Now onto the preliminary final.

Preliminary Final

Match 35 725th Imperial Fighter Group - Birds of Prey vs. Scondren's Squad of Suck

Numbers in 24

 

so unless i get really lucky with my numbers(since I know I will lose in teams) I am finishing in third, right?

I am predictable.

 

Well 4th is my best ever.

Runt's as good as Face? That's just about where I'd put Lara.

 

Preliminary Final

Match 35 725th Imperial Fighter Group - Birds of Prey vs. Scondren's Squad of Suck

Match 1

Number 1

Match 35 Maarek Stele vs. Ace Azzameen

 

If anyone thinks this is close, they will be shovelled.

 

and thats the end of that.

 

However, it'll take the judges four days on this.