CT The Time Has Come. The OT NEEDS The RLM Treatment

KilroyMcFadden
No problem! I despise censorship and wouldn't dream of attempting some sort of cover-up just because we disagree with eachother.
I mean that.

...and thank YOU





- Don't you see? We don't have to run away anymore!
- I can't see, pal!
/LM

 

I'd rather waste my time by showing the hipocrisy, double standards and fallacies on Stoklasa's videos than following his attitude by trying to criticize good movies.

 

They already recorded a MST3K-style commentary track for ANH.

http://redlettermedia.bandcamp.com/album/mr-plinketts-star-wars-episode-4-a-new-hope-commentary

But those original movies are so beloved, it's not really going to resonate... You can nit pick but nobody's going to get upset over it. It's like obsessing over Cindy Crawford's mole. Yeah, it's a mole, but it's Cindy Crawford!

See their 2009 Star Trek review -- if the film is still well made you can't really eviscerate it over the minor things. They even say pretty much that in this (and many other) reviews.

That's why the PT reviews struck a chord -- they weren't well made in terms of storytelling, and they articulated and enumerated the things that people may have felt but couldn't articulate.

I have yet to see a PT defender acknowledge any of the points made in the reviews, that would be a sign of maturity to admit the defects. But instead they blindly defend the PT without reason or compromise, as if someone had insulted their mothers, it's the same reflexive anger and denial.

It's a sign of immaturity. When you get older, you learn to acknowledge and live with flaws in movies and indeed all things about life, but still enjoy the good. For example there are many, many things about rebooted Star Trek that really annoy me, but they are fundamentally still entertaining films. And that's what went wrong with the PT and why the flaws not only can't be forgiven but they multiply the effects of the bad storytelling.

 

Although Stoklasa's videos are deeply flawed, manipulative and made for low expectations public, I'll give him one big, enormous credit.
He made me love the PT more.
Ep 1 rebuttal and AOTC rebuttal topic are a fantastic reading and they made me see many of the prequel finesses that I haven't noticed before.
On the other hand, I applied the same criteria on the OT and it failed miserably. Big plot-holes, useless and stereotype characters with no or minimal character development, unbelievable story of a hero farmboy, ridiculous animals (space worm ), Luke's turning to the dark side without reason, bad editing... Obviously, there's enough material to make RLM-type bashing videos.

 

I will never understand the reasoning that to prop up the PT films, we must tear down the OT films? Every movie series doesn't have each movie beloved equally, as that is just the way it is. I enjoy all 6 SW movies, and can watch them endlessly, but I do have favorites that I love more then others. It would be like trying to tear down the Original Rocky (which is beloved by EVERYONE) to prop up Rocky IV (who has its detractors).

People need to understand that with every movie series there is atleast one beloved movie that makes it possible for the other to be made!

 

What do I think?

I think I'm a fan of all six movies, even if none of them are infallible. It's art. It's subjective. Folks are meant to read different things into the movies and take different things from them. None of these stories, by their very nature, are meant to be impenetrable.

That said, I certainly don't agree for one minute that "The time has come. The OT NEEDS the RLM treatment." Someone bothering to make a video (or series of videos) pointing out what they might view as a defect in a work of art, as a means of "leveling the SW playing field," so to speak, reeks of desperation to me. Especially when someone says "above all, we showcase how inaccurate the RLM reviews are," yet they desire to give the OT "the RLM treatment"? I just don't get it.

My advice to anyone so wrapped up? Try to enjoy the films (all six) for what they are, and find something else to get this worked up over. Maybe take the time and energy it would take to create these videos and put them into their studies, their career or their family?

 

SweetZombieJesus
Yes, all Star Wars movies have flaws - from a certain point of view, mind you - but they are still awesome. What you express is an opinion, not an objective fact. There is no such thing as objectively good/bad. Quality in art lies in the eye of the beholder. There are no exceptions to this rule.
I love all of these movies equally. Every time I watch any one of them, I thoroughly enjoy myself. That is a fact. The fact that Stoklasa & co have a hard time finding flaws within some of them is a testament to their love for those particular movies, not proof of their superiority. In the minds of Stoklasa & co, it is the latter, but objectively speaking? Absolutely not.
Again, though, I am pro love, not hate.

Visivious Drakarn
I second that! I now love these movies, especially TPM, more than ever. Every cloud has a silver lining





- If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.
- Then I'll see you in hell!
/LM

 

I'd rather not see this happen. The RLM PT reviews are just awful, and shouldn't receive the attention. I understand that there are a large portion of fans who were disappointed by the prequels, but trying to use the RLM reviews as "proof" just hurts the "the PT is bad" argument. As others have said, the RLM PT reviews have made me actually love the PT even more; but that's probably because RLM's arguments are easily rebutted and the fans actually end up present great insight in the PT.

 

I am a fan of all SW 6 movies (and will defend them as much as anyone), but come on that is impossible to love any 6 movies equally??? I am not even arguing which of the 6 movies are better, I am just saying that if you ask me any movie series, each one I can name a one or two that I like more then others. I like Rocky more then the sequels, I like T1 & T2 better then T3 or T4, I like Superman I more then Superman II, and think their both better then Superman III & IV, etc.

It's like saying you like every car you have ever owned equally?? There has to be one of them that you loved more then another!

 

Carbon1985
The Star Wars saga is one of those rare movie series that actually keeps a constant quality throughout all of the films that's it's hard to pick and choose. For me, the saga is like The Lord of the Rings Trilogy and The Dark Knight Trilogy. Sure, there is technically always a weaker movies and the stronger movies, but I like all the movies in these three series. I personally don't like to pick and choose a favorite or least favorite when it comes to these. For comparison:

Movie series where I love all the movies
The Dark Knight Trilogy
The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (including The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey)
Star Wars Saga

Movie series where I like only certain movies
Alien Anthology (Alien, Aliens, Alien 3)
Batman: The Motion Picture Anthology (Batman, Batman Returns)
Superman: The Motion Picture Anthology (Superman: The Movie, Superman II, Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut)

 

I support this idea. There's no shortage of aesthetic flaws and plot-holes I could point out in the OT, and while they don't ruin my experience of the films, they always gnaw at me when people try and dogpile on the PT. Really? We're going to complain about CGI, even while looking at the more glaring instances choppy stop-motion in the OT (and no, miniatures and models don't get free passes for having "old school charm")?. We're going to whine on and on about how little sense the Trade Federation's invasion of Naboo makes, but never stop to ask ourselves why Han never freaking paid off his debt to Jabba the Hutt before joining the Alliance (I would think that owing that much money to a gangster who routinely sends bounty hunters after people would disqualify someone from joining an underground military insurrection)? We're going to bitch and moan about "I don't like sand" but give a free pass to "Who's scruffy lookin'?" and "laser brain"?

 

Couldn't agree more. Plinkett makes so many stupid points that are clearly explained in the films.

 

This is type of posts I will never understand about certain SW fans as you pretty much just buried the OT movies, yet you call yourself a saga fan? You sound like an OT basher and its ironic cause you're only doing it cause you are annoyed by the PT bashers. That's a strange way to defend the movies you love cause you are essentially ridiculing ALL of them because of these supposed stupid plot points?

 

You were making good points until you slid in your opinion about the prequels in there. Wasn't your main idea to live with the flaws in the movies?

 

Because you've decided so?

So, those who don't agree with you or the fallacious reasoning shown on those videos are being immature? Not a very mature "argument" on your part.

Isn't it denial to not question the supposed criticism of those videos? Aren't you showing the same blindness without reason by taking those videos as fact? How ironic...

Sorry, but repeating the same thing over and over won't make it a fact.

In your opinion ≠ fact.

 

I have yet to see a PT "hater" acknowledge the hundreds of posts debunking some of RLM's points. I just hear this "we PT fans don't acknowledge" over and over - but it's a two way street.

You want maturity? On your terms?
There were plenty of defects in the PT. There. I admitted it. Am I now admitted to the "mature club"?


And plenty of defects in the OT. Oh, oh - did I lose my "maturity"?

I love 'em all, regardless - and yes, some more than others. The horror.

 

Here, I liked Red Letter Media's reviews, but I'll debunk his statement of Jedi wearing robes. He says that Jedi shouldn't wear robes because everyone on Tatooine wore them, and Obi-Wan tried to fit in. However, the three Jedi on Endor, (including Anakin, who was never seen as a Jedi before this.) wear the robes. So I disagree with his statement. See, I admitted it? Now you tell me what you agreed with his reviews.

 

If you have to be told to not like something I really don't think your opinions mean a great deal anyway.

Why would to want to tear apart something that you 'say' you enjoy.

I have read about two lines of one RL review and all i can say is it must be great to be without fault like him....starting a thread, in my opinion, with the sole purpose if bagging either the PT or OT is complete horse ***p!

Sort if makes me wonder how people even call themselves fans?!

 

They're bad stories that I live with. Wasted opportunities, mostly. I'm grateful George made them, overall, and there are many, many aspects of the prequels I enjoy, but they fail as films. George did not ruin my childhood, by the way.

See, when a film is a good, basic film that adheres to time tested principals of good storytelling, it can overcome its flaws. Again Abrams' Trek films are good examples. Are they dumb and heretical to the legacy of Trek? Yup. Is it overflowing with things that just plain don't make sense? Yup. But they're entertaining, engaging films despite the flaws and manage to overcome them.

The cardinal sin of any movie is not being entertaining and engaging. Very few (ST:TMP, 2001) can overcome this.

Had the PT concentrated a little more on the basics of storytelling, perhaps they could have overcome the flaws.

 

Of course you can nitpick the OT endlessly, but really, they do not have the major flaws of the PT, like Plinkett said at the end of the Sith review.

The OT dialogue was not shakespierre, but it made you smile not grimace. And generally made conversational sense.

The visuals had a strong artistic direction: unlike the PT visuals which were just about "throwing as much crap on the frame as possible". The Empire looks intimidating and powerful, the Seperatists look like a bloody circus. This, I think, is the strongest point. In the OT, the enemy is feared, in the PT the enemy is nothing but comedic relief with hilarious droids and dumb racist caricatures as leaders.

 

Freedom of expression is a wonderful thing and all, but it does surprise me that after all this time people are still so keen to put the boot into whichever trilogy isn't "theirs". It all ended 8 years ago people (well, the PT/OT thing did at least). Haven't we all had a chance by now to have our say, get our gripes out there? It also surprises me that people still care so much what other people say and think about these films. It's all great for a discussion, but at the end of the day, surely the important thing is that YOU like a particular film / trilogy, regardless of what someone, or a million other people think of it. Surely it's time to just enjoy what we enjoy and let others do likewise. If we don't like an aspect, just stay away. Come on people, there are a million and one SW discussions to have without going near the PT v OT thing. Come on people, bring the love...

 

Actually in the PT the true enemy is the Sith, and they are pretty fearful from Maul's appearance in TPM all the way to Sidious' hideous snarl when he's dueling Yoda.

 

Is it OK if I just love all of the Star Wars movies? Each episode has it's own particular beauty and charm. A magic to them that binds them all together for me (no not the Force you silly people). Each episode has enthralled me enough to take to the Internet reading complete strangers conversations about them.

 

Carbon1985: The thing is that Star Wars is very special to me. To this day, no other movie series has come close to having the same impact on my life. What you say is true, for the most part. I, too, think that Rocky is superior to all of its sequels and that Terminator 1 and 2 are better than the others (although I believe T3 would've been right up there with them if it had just been a bit more original - and less comedic).
I could say similar things about a lot of movies, but not Star Wars. The episodes of Star Wars just complement eachother beautifully. They have different qualities that play off of eachother to create one great whole. Mind you, the Saga isn't perfect. Some of the episodes could've been more fulfilled. That doesn't stop me from loving them all the same. You see, my love for Star Wars isn't based on craftsmanship as much as it is a feeling of profound affection. These are very well made movies - I wouldn't have liked them if they hadn't been - but the things that stick with me in the long run are the characters, the story, the atmosphere, the great diversity of the series... Those things are just pure gold!





- Come on, admit it. Sometimes you think I'm all right.
- I can't. We can't, it's... just not possible.
/LM