Tired of NJO

Me:

Our desire is to have things be completely new and completely familiar at the same time.

Grand Admiral Wettengel:

"Unfortunately, you cannot have it both ways. Something is either familiar or completely new and unfamiliar."

Me:

That was precisely my point. My comment was worded to express the paradox of writing and reading in a long-running series. We DO want things to be new and yet familiar. Finding a balance between those is tough.

And I do understand your concerns. These have been expressed in considerable detail. My responses of late have not been attempts to argue with points you and other have expressed, but simply to add another perspective to the discussion.

 

Jades' Fire:

"You said one of your children doesn't like the "extended battle scenes, gratuitous violence, or scantily clad dungeon babes". You should recognize why some of us don't like the NJO's increased level of violence."

Yes, I do recognize this. The implied torture of Han and Leia in the movie trilogy happened offstage, which was consistent with the tone and pacing of those stories. The NJO is certainly darker than the movies.

 

I agree with childofwinds/MariahJade2/ dewlanna regarding the long NJO series and not having any other choice for the next few years.

I'm a fan who devoured SW stories like a delicacy. Why? because I identify with the characters and I've read them for the biggest chunk of my life. Obviously, like everyone, I am very passionate about SW characters both new and old.

It's just sad to know my SW had lost their sense of adventures/imagination, thus only had one type of the bad of the baddest in 'Vongs'. It's almost like the publishers are milking this particular 'bogeyman=Vong', to see how many gallons it could fill. And believe me, after reading this 'Tired NJO thread' - I got the impression there's quite a few here, who thought this NJO series is being milked and milked until its becoming blue...like what Luke had in SW

I think there are yet so many facets that SW series could go instead of this soap operatic manner approach to its continuation. Why not stick to the usual trilogies, like the movies? Or is the idea of coming up with new baddies in every new series been totally exhausted? I don't think so, especially with such talented writers.

Lastly, I think the NJO is a case of having too many cooks and it's spoiling the broth. I think the 'Chief Cook' in this series should keep a tighter leash on how many 'spices=characters' get thrown in there. Plus, in order to spice it up with new characters, they've forgotten to add in the true spice like 'salt/pepper=Luke,Leia & Co.' And its leaving a lot of sour taste in some fans. Why not give everyone a certain amount of equal parts instead?

It's like we're waiting for steak but getting hamburgers, I for one love hamburgers (even though I come from rice country) but I still do love my steak more.

Have I made anyone hungry yet? Or do I need to hide behind my pots because the rotten tomatoes are coming?

 

"And believe me, after reading this 'Tired NJO thread' - I got the impression there's quite a few here, who thought this NJO series is being milked and milked until its becoming blue...like what Luke had in SW"

Actually people complaining in this thread has only been about 5 people, 6 including you, , that have complained about this series on the board.

 

Elaine, I'm thoroughly impressed with your open mindedness. It is a pleasure reading your posts.

 

ChildofWinds... you may have felt nothing over ikrit, or even cared about him. Indeed, I had never read a book with him in it, and didn't feel nothing from his death, but I guarantee you that his inclusion and subsequent death did indeed move a lot of the fans who have read those books and did enjoy them, and did like that character.

Elaine, I am gald to see you have stuck around, just don't let the boards interfere with writing your novels, especially "Starlight and Shadows" or I may have to ban you.

 

Who would have thought I would feel the need to repost here. I've been staying away from posting. Simply not worth hearing ongoing flames directed at a few people because they disagree. That being said, some of you need to wake up.

The 5 or 6 who complain? Give me a break. There are 5 or 6 of you who defend. Your in just the same minority as the other group. Your no more right than they are. Stop acting like you are.

Skydancer has made an excellent point. One I have myself have determined to be the main problem. To many voices. I brought this up in one of the threads talking about how authors don't work together. I don't see the NJO working very well together. Look at the numerous posts of dropped characters, dropped storylines, regression of personalities. And that didn't even include the death of Lando.

DL has asked more than once for us to just go away, so he wouldn't have to listen to us anymore. And I will submit that is exactly what Del Rey/LucasBooks and whoever else involved with this does not want to happen. We might not like what they are doing, but they need to know that, they need the info. SO later on they can try to re-appeal to us.

No one will ever be happy with everything. There are so many reasons why this is. Star wars isn't just the people who like the NJO. It belongs to everyone here, those who post, those who don't, and the hundreds if not thousands who will come behind us that don't know what the NJO is yet.

If nothing else the "complaining" the NJO detractors do is show those at LucasBooks and Del Rey that there is another group of potential readers out there. They can try and tailor books to that group as well. It's not like the lack the funds to pay more authors and editors. So in three years, five years, ten years, those writing and editing the books then will realize that if they can move a little in this direction they will have another group of buyers.

So please stop telling "us" to go away. You might as well slap us in the face. I'm not giving up Star Wars because you tell me to. I'm not going to stop posting because your tired of listening. Del Rey and LucasBooks need "us" just as much as they need you.

And for those of you with me who are being led off the top of the tank track, remember that to keep moving the tank requires that the part that just went under to come back on the top. It also needs that track to stay intact while it rolls on.

Clear Skies

 

The 5 or 6 who complain? Give me a break. There are 5 or 6 of you who defend. Your in just the same minority as the other group. Your no more right than they are. Stop acting like you are.

That's my point those that complain are similer situation as those that defend.

It's all oppinions and not worth argueing about. If for some reason I don't like the books later. I will quite reading as easy as that. I don't have to say I hate it over and over. Or try to prove I'm right and others who join my band of merry people are right as well. I don't agree with everything that people who you say are part of my defending group, we have different tastes. But at least I don't try to creat false assumptions. If i want to mention I didn't like It I might mention it. But I won't try to sell bridges I don't own. I will just accept the fact that I have a personal oppinion.

That's my personal thing. As elaine has stated, it works both ways. There are going to be a different people with different tastes. Not everyone is going to be pleased. But as long as LFL has pleased a broad amount of people and doesn't lose money they are quite happy. next time they will come out with somthing different when the series ends. That is if it still sells well, which I don't see a problem as of yet. That different thing might be something you might like.

But it's generally impossible to please everyone.

ongoing series may not be your cup of tea. That's a problem, but at least people should have known what look for when they heard the press releases years ago. It's not like they didn't give warning, that it would be a continuing ark about a threat from outside the galaxy.

Well, if you don't like it there is always going back to bantam and waiting to come back when something catches your eye.

 

>>Elaine, I'm thoroughly impressed with your open mindedness.<<

I'm a writer, not an evangelist, and converting other people to my way of thinking isn't part of my mindset. Tastes differ, and so do opinions, and when a bunch of passionate SW fans get together, we're going to span the entire spectrum of opinion and do so loudly and forcifully.

At least, that's what I assume this forum is about. It seems to be fulfilling its purpose.

I've stated before my opinion that we the few, the outspoken, are probably not typical and certainly not representative of the general SW readership. But that's no reason not to speak for ourselves. I seldom have a problem with anyone's opinion, given honestly and expressed civily, as are most of the posts I've read on this forum. The only thing I ever have problems with are personal attacks and misinformation, and that's usually kept to a minimum.

On balance, I'm happy.

 

Well, if you don't like it there is always going back to bantam and waiting to come back when something catches your eye.

Or we could give the "chief cook" or editors what our like/dislikes of the books that's already written.

Like the small green master said - the future is in motion - I'm just hoping someone will listen and either add or change the style of the books that hasn't been written yet. Also, helping the marketing department know that they're a few of us that find the series so far - graphic and tasteless (hmm...wrong spices?).

 

Disclaimer: I'm not a marketing expert, and I don't know everything there is to know about how the bestseller lists are compiled, and how they should be interpreted. But I have been reading them and reading ABOUT them for about a dozen years now, and here's my perspective on the recent discussion.

When talking about bestseller lists, it's easy to start sounding like the old tale about the blind men and the elephant. Reading lists is not as simple a matter as what book makes slots 1 through 15. It's easy to consider some results and conclude, "The elephant is like a rope." "No, a spear!" "Actually, according to the data I've observed, it's like a wall." Logical, observed data often gives only part of the story.

Comparing apples to apples is more difficult than it might seem. Take for example the LOCUS lists. These are divided into categories: hardcover, paperback, trade paperback, game-related, media-related. One of the reasons for this is that the game- and media-related book sales would otherwise dominate the list more often than not, as they tend to out-sell much "mainstream fantasy." (A term not unlike "jumbo shrimp...") You COULD look at the list and say, "Hmm. The latest Dragonlance book is at number 4 on the game-related list, and Connie Willis's latest book (love her stuff, btw) is number one in trade paperback. It must be selling better." This may or may not be an accurate assumption. Granted, this is a simplistic example, but it illustrates my point: a number of variables should be considered when interpreting any bestseller list.

Bestseller lists are extremely mutable things, and most change over time to reflect publishing and reading trends. One example --the Harry Potter books sat on the NY Times and other lists for months, until they were relegated to a separate, "children's books" list. (Even though it's estimated that adult readers comprise almost 70% of those books' audience.) Does that mean that Nora Robert's lastest romance is outselling HARRY POTTER AND THE PRISONER OF AZKABAN? It might, but you can't tell from the NY Times list. On most lists, perennial bestsellers such as "What Color is Your Parachute?" or "Chicken Soup for the (inset adject) Soul" are listed separately as non-fiction. What sells more copies -- the latest Patricia Cornwall mystery or the new diet book? ::shrugs:: Who can tell from the lists?

Lists are like polls -- they are samples, and they are only as accurate as the sample is representative. Remember the story about "Valley of the Dolls?" The author got hold of the list of bookstores whose sales were tallied for the list, scraped together a significant pile of cash, and bought stacks of books from all those stores. The book became an instant, if artificial, bestseller. Precautions have been taken since then to avoid a repeat performance, but there are still some influencial lists that publish the names of polled stores. The LOCUS list is one of these. Who shops at these stores -- and for that matter, why those particular stores were selected -- has an impact upon what books make the cut.

You've also got to consider timing when considering a book's relative success. "Beach books" sell well during the late spring through summer. November can be a dismal time for a book release, since books can be lost among the displays of seasonal and "gift" books. Several times I've been into stores to pick up a new SF or fantasy book, and been informed by harried-looking clerks that it was probably still out back, in one of the boxes they hadn't gotten around to unpacking yet. The time of year isn't the only timing issue. You've got to ask what else is out there. The release of guaranteed bestsellers from such authors as Stephen King, Tom Clancy, Anne Rice, and so on may edge books out of the top 15, or shorten their stay there. A book that made a debute at 11 and stayed on the list for three months might have sold more copies than a book that started at 13 and stayed only one. Then again, it might not. There's no way of telling from the lists.

When I look at a b

 

Skydancer asks:

Why not stick to the usual trilogies, like the movies? Or is the idea of coming up with new baddies in every new series been totally exhausted?

Granted that I'm not speaking for LucasFilm, but here's my perspective.

I disagree with the premise of both questions.

First of all, the Star Wars movies are not a set of two trilogies, at least in the sense of being two separate story arcs. They are, or will be, a single six-movie series. Each movie [will] tell a different episode of the same story arc, which concerns the rise and fall of the Empire, the war between the Sith and Jedi, and the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

Granted, Star Wars IV, V, and VI work reasonably well as a stand-alone trilogy (and Star Wars IV as a stand-alone film!). But I doubt that Star Wars I, II, and III will. The Emperor's triumph over the Jedi and Anakin's fall to the dark side, presumably in Star Wars III, will find the first "trilogy" ending on a much darker note than Star Wars V (and quite a bit of story left "untold"). That's not to say that trilogies can't have grim endings. But such grim endings at the conclusion of a story arc are not characteristic of Star Wars.

Instead of telling a story encapsulated by just three episodes that take place over a few months (The Thrawn Trilogy) or even close to a year (Black Fleet Crisis), the movies tell a story of a prolonged struggle against a single foe that takes place over many years. In this respect, the New Jedi Order resembles the movies more than any single Bantam storyline.

Also, in the Expanded Universe, the struggle that will be told by all six movies is fleshed out by numerous novels, short stories, and comic books set in the time frame of the movies. Not even the struggles of the NJO will be explored to the same depth, breadth, and scope in EU literature as the movie saga.

With regard to the second question, "coming up with new baddies in every new series," I think the question both gives the Bantam line too much credit for coming up with new foes and doesn't give the NJO enough credit.

First of all, the bulk of the Bantam line focused on struggles between the New Republic and Empire. Consequently, the Bantam line didn't feature a major new opposing force with every new series. Instead, most Bantam books simply featured the same opposing force seen in Star Wars IV, V, and VI.

What the Bantam line did, of course, was provide a new Imperial opponent with each new book or series (e.g., Isard, Thrawn, Daala, Zsinj, the Rismarens) along with some recurring characters (e.g., Pellaeon). That didn't mean that the Empire stopped.

The New Jedi Order has followed a similar pattern. The storyline has featured one major opposing force, the Yuuzhan Vong, and individual opponents who are featured prominently in one book or duology (Yomin Carr, Shedao Shai, Elan, Mezhan Kwaad) while others appear repeatedly in the series (Nom Anor, Tsavong Lah). Not only have the individuals varied, but the factions and castes from which these foes were drawn have varied. Hence, we've seen major foes who are warriors, priests, and "shapers."

In short, the NJO has featured some variety among its "baddies." Whether the reader finds that variety satisfying depends upon the reader. Many people find the Yuuzhan Vong "baddies" repetitive, but then, many people found Imperial opponents repetitive in the Bantam line.

The glass is half empty or half full. The meal is too spicy or not spicy enough. It depends entirely on a reader's individual tastes.

EDIT: Last paragraph altered to fit in with the current culinary theme.

 

"Or we could give the "chief cook" or editors what our like/dislikes of the books that's already written."

But You can't have every meal you want. Others are getting the meal they want. It's like eating exotic cuisine. Your not accustomed to it, to spicy, or too sweet, or maybe very bitter, or might even be poisonous to some people. You might hate it, it might leave a bad taste in your mouth, it might even poison you. But Others are going to love that meal, They get it all the time, the taste just what they like, and they like the risk(of not knowing if it will kill them or not)or in the case of star wars books who might die, or get hurt, and who is going to have a character growth. Those people are going taste flavors and textures in the food on a different level, see deep elements, Psycological growth.

Those that don't like it, might just see it as bland, sensory overkill, textureless. They can't fathom the different elements of the Exotic Food. To them it's just wrong Taste.

Then there might be foods you like, those same foods might be unpalatable to the other person. Not enough action, not enough sciencetech, not enough romance, not enough conversations, or not enough something they think is missing(taste varie and everyone is going to want something different).

Then there is the Gourmand, one that relishes and eats all sorts of food, finds something good in everything, over looks the bad(bad being subjective to ones desires, but not a fact), He sees everything as a fine wine, just needs to get into a mindset to find enjoyment in everything. He is one with an open mind, and likes to try foods from around everywhere(new authors). This person is extremely optimistic.

The "Chief Cook" can't cater to everyone's criteria and tastes. That's impossible. Either people are going to love it or hate it, or be a Gourmand.

What you are asking is an impossible task to master.

"Like the small green master said - the future is in motion - I'm just hoping someone will listen and either add or change the style of the books that hasn't been written yet. Also, helping the marketing department know that they're a few of us that find the series so far - graphic and tasteless (hmm...wrong spices?)."

Like I said the "chief cook" can't cater to everyone's criteria. Exotic Spices might taste bland to one person and being stimulating to another. Depends on different peoples preferences and what they like. So nothing is wrong spices, if many people like it. But the "Chief Cook" can't please everyone.

The moment he tries to cater to another person, the next person may get shafted and feel left out. It's an impossible task to please everyone.

 

I think that's an apt metaphor, Valiento. However, I believe our friends are concerned that they'll be waiting at the restaurant for a long time before they get served, since they don't want the exotic special of the day. And they're a bit reluctant to simply get up and leave, because this is their favorite restaurant...

Personally, I'm happy enough with the current sampling, though there's certainly room for improvement.

 

Taking it to the extreme then...

Well, luckily, in this food court, there's a fast-food restaurant down the road, Dark Horse Comics which offers a plethora of fare, changing on a monthly basis.

There's another fine dining experience offering the current favorite, the Del Rey Prequel Hut.

For those who just like to snack, one can find small bites on a monthly basis at the Wizards.

There's a whole lot of choices out there. Simply, the only choice not available is "yesterdays leftovers" While people may love those leftovers, the restaurants by law can't serve food that's old and moldy.

 

"I think that's an apt metaphor, Valiento. However, I believe our friends are concerned that they'll be waiting at the restaurant for a long time before they get served, since they don't want the exotic special of the day. And they're a bit reluctant to simply get up and leave, because this is their favorite restaurant..."

This isn't some restaurant were your served what you want to, this is a "Chef's" Luncheon Party, he serves what he want's to serve, to everyone at the same time. Are all people going to like it? no. But they can't simply just order another meal. Those that do enjoy it, are having great meal.

But that's my point what someone might find as exotic, another person might find as boring, another person might find as standard fare, another is nauseated, still another comes to the luncheon thinking it was excellent course. Then there is the gourmand that Loves it all. Can't wait until the "Chef's" next party.

p.s. At least people are more polite at the luncheon parties useally. But maybe that's because they are talking to the chef in person, and not hiding behind a wall of digital words.

 

I?m of a mixed mind concerning the NJO. I like that it is a long term plotline, not a ?Coruscant Crisis of the Week? series like Bantam was. It centers around some of my favorite characters (the OT era heroes). I like that the New Republic is taking some early losses. Some of the plotlines have (or had) a great deal of potential. Unfortunately, there are also negative points about the series that I dislike, and I think that I can sum them up as four major things:


1. The excessive violence. For me, it?s enough to say that ?The Vong came in, oblivious, and Luke slapped their weapons aside and cut them down,? rather than something like ?Corran pressed his lightsaber against the Yuuzhan Vong?s stomach. The lightsaber hissed. Argent light poured from Shedao Shai?s mouth a second before he vomited black blood and collapsed to the ground, his spine severed, his belly smoking.? (The second example is obviously from Ruin, the first is a modified version of something written by a different NJO author in another series)

There is such a thing as too much description. I would have been fine knowing the lightsaber went in one end and out the other. I think that the level of description of the violence is far higher than is appropriate for the setting. Star Wars should be relatively good clean fun. Yes, people die. But you don?t have to make it messy. Consider the following passage out of Ruin:

?The staff punctured the meaty part of the mans leg, allowing salty blood to spurt out when the slave yanked the staff free. The man came back with it, spinning through the air and landing hard on his back. Bones cracked and the lower half of the infidels body went limp. Blood still pulsed from the hole in his leg, and his hands grabbed for it. The infidel looked up into the slave?s eyes, fear widening his own orbs until the white balls looked as if they would rattle around in the skull. The mouth formed words that came with piteous tones, but a quick whirl of the amphistaff brought the flattened tip down to slash through the mans neck, silencing his voice and ending his life in one stroke.?
-Ruin (pages 3-4)

Pleasantly PG, don?t you think? Or rather not. I know I was disturbed to find that level of violence in a Star Wars book.


2. The Smut. I consider torture to be smut, every bit as much as sex. The graphic self inflicted torture that the Vong submit themselves to is just as bad as graphic sex would be. I have no desire to hear about the torture and brainwashing of a fourteen year old. At least the graphic sex might be interesting to read


3. The dropped and wandering plotlines. Han and Leia?s marriage is on the rocks. Han is wandering off on his own. Then in Balance Point they get a two page reunion. And nothing in Conquest. Huh? Mara?s disease has had at least three almost-cures so far, and is in some sort of limbo. Nom Anor and Tsavong Lah seem to be the only Vong capable of surviving to the end of a book, but the heroes still can?t win. Jacen?s plotline was in my opinion well done until Conquest, but then he disappears. Luke has spent the last four books dithering concerning the Jedi Council plotline- I?m not seeing any progress their. Pellaeon and the Empire popped up in Ruin, were mentioned helping in a battle in Hero?s Trial, and now seem to have disappeared. Jagged Fel and Danni Quee have been complete non-presences.

I can certainly understand not wanting to include characters that don?t impact on the plot. I can understand Mara not appearing at all in a book centered around Han. I can understand Danni not being on Duros when she?s probably training on Coruscant. But at least give them brief appearances so we know that the plotlines are still going and the characters are still alive. It might have taken a paragraph to say in Hero?s Trial that Danni had begun Jedi training. A few paragraphs in Balance Point with Jagged Fel and Jaina covering each other while flying together would have been enough. The mere mention of a certain Mon Calamari healer in Vector Prime. To say that Ikrit taught Anakin

 

While I agree completely, Ghengis12, unfortunately, many people evidently find the offerings at the Prequel Hut, the fast foold at Dark Horse Comics, and the small snack at Wizards equally unpalatable...

But hey. Not even the best cooks can please everyone...

Side note: I recall someone saying that a comic cost $5. Not so, at least in the US. The cost is $3 (except for SW: Tales, which contains twice the story anyway), and the trade paperbacks are just as expensive. A TB that combines 4 comics costs about $12, one that combines 6 comics is about $18, and so on.

 

Ghengis12
"Well, luckily, in this food court, there's a fast-food restaurant down the road, Dark Horse Comics which offers a plethora of fare, changing on a monthly basis. "

Unfortunatly, Dark Horse tends to be a Sushi place. It doesn't matter that they change the menu every month, it's still sushi, and not for everyone.


"There's another fine dining experience offering the current favorite, the Del Rey Prequel Hut."

Prequel novels so far tend to be pub food, rather than pizza. Some places have great food but poor ambiance (Shadow Hunter) others have awful food and the place smells like a dump on top of that (Rogue Planet), some don't serve alcohol for whatever reason (Jedi Apprentice).


"For those who just like to snack, one can find small bites on a monthly basis at the Wizards. "

Wizards tends to be that expensive place that will sell you a little bit of cavier on a cracker- sure it may be good if you like that sort of thing, but you can buy a whole meal elsewhere for just as much.




Anakin SkySolo: Here in Canada, a Dark Horse comic book costs $4.50 plus tax. The last grapgic novel I bought was Mara Jade: By the Emperors Hand, and cost 23.99 plus tax. Del Ray paperbacks are 9.99 plus tax, hardcovers are $35.99 plus tax. The tax varies around the country, but locally it's 15%. So if I were to go to a store to buy the comic, it would cost me $5.17, a graphic novel would cost me $27.58, a paperback is 11.48, a hardcover is $41.34. Subscribing to SWGamer is about $50 Canadian.

 

I just want to sneak something in here.

Both sides in the best seller list debate can make arguments to support their respective cases. The only answer to whether the NJO is declining in sales, is to see the actual sales numbers, not the wholesale numbers. However, actual sales numbers tend to be top secret information held by the publishers, and will never be released. It wouldn't surprise me if the writers even know that information.

The violent and much too dark NJO has really disappointed me. The online death polls are even more disturbing. Doesn't anyone find the betting on who will die a bit macabre? If it is not already obvious, violence is now ingrained in our culture, which is sad.

Because the NJO has disappointed, Rebirth will be my last NJO book. The birth of the son of Luke Skywalker seems like as good a time as any to call it quits. End it on a momentus occasion.

 

The wholesale numbers can be indicative as well. Poor sales might reflect a lack of book chain confidence in the series. They're the ones that have to sell the books and they are not going to back a losing horse by buying lots of copies of a book they don't believe will sell well.

 

Well said, Gandolf.

Ani, you are right that some of us are not happy with the other offerings in the food court. Comic books have never held much appeal for me. I'm a verbal person, I find the visual overload of a comic book to detract from the story. To me comic books are a static movie with no sound track (and by now you all should know that I'm not a big movie fan--any movie, not just TPM-- ) Concerning the price, even $3 is too much for the small amount of story. A 300 word paperback is only 5 or 6 bucks and gives me a lot more reading enjoyment.

As for the prequel era books, since I didn't care for TPM, few if any prequel stories appeal to me.
I DO like the Jedi Apprentice books, but one cannot live on snacks for long.

Darth_Dolza, I love your metaphor.

To me, the NJO is like the school cafeteria and the old Bantam line is like a trip to McDonald's.

 

Another good post by Gandolf while I was fixing typos. Great analogies!

 

Well, it seems that by the time I can come back in here, many things I want to say have already been said.
Let me say that Child of Winds, Gandolf, I couldn't agree more with what you have said.
(Gandolf, shouldn't you be posting in Dark Mirror?) The same goes for smuggler's spin, skydancer, and the others of like mind.

I originally came into this thread because the question was asked, "Are you tired of the NJO?" For me the answer was yes, but it was borne out of frustration, not ill intent.
I have been seeing more and more of the people I correspond with express the same feelings and frustations that I have,readers who do not post to these boards and therefore, whose opinions remain silent.
I wanted to add a voice to those who are unhappy, and to let the planners and the authors know that all is not as well as it might seem.
I was somewhat suprised that the mere mention of possible problems seems to have threatened some into suggesting that we all leave and that our thoughts and feelings should be suppressed.
If those of us who feel that there is room for improvement are such a small group, as has also been suggested, than what possible harm can we do by merely discussing the things that have made us unhappy and frustrated, or by offering suggestions for improvement?
Is that not what this thread was for? What was the point of asking if we are tired of the NJO, if we are not allowed to say it?

Ms. Cunningham, thank you for defending my right to an opinion. I appreciate you willingness to listen.

Mr. Salvatore, you said, "Some people seem to think that there was some conspiracy at DelRey to throw out the old crowd to make room for the kids! That's simply not true."

Yes, you are probably right that it is not true, but I never thought there was a conspiracy, nor an "evil empire."
What I think, and what reading all the books makes me feel, is that somehow it was decided that it was time to add to the mix, more of the vast younger market out there and
there was no thought at all to the ramifications of that decision on the adult fans, especially women.

Rather it would merely have been a simple buisness decision, which assumed that the loyal fans would continue to support the new direction, like we have all the others. Not necessarily an unreasonable thought, but one which perhaps was not handled correctly.
I do not wish the NJO to fail, if it does, that would be a very sad day, because it could mean the end to the SW lit. that I love to read. I would not be suggesting improvement if that were the case.

You said, "I don't think I wrote Luke as a wimp." I agree with you.
When I said that you book was "better" in comparison to some of the others I meant just that.
I thought you wrote him quite well actually.
It was not I, that first started calling Luke a "wimp." I have been seeing for some time now, where he has been called,
"washed up, wimp, old ben and Yoda, useless, paralyzed by indicision, time to retire."
Most of these posts have been coming from the younger readers. This is "their" impression given to them by the books.
It seems to me that something is wrong when the "hero" of the SW universe is perceived this way by what may become the bulk of the
star wars audience, in the future.
Yes, there were things in your book I didn't care for, Mara and Luke's inability to force
communicate, Lando's reaction to Chewie's death, the moon, the mostly "off camera" mourning of their long time friend, the sterile feeling to Luke and Mara's marriage,
but...over all, you balanced the adults with the kids well and I recognized all of the characters, for the most part.
In addition, everyone had an active role.
And it bothers me that all of the hard work you put into setting up the death of Chewbacca, and the affect it had on Han and Leia,
which set the stage for their break up and reunion, has become an off camera, truncated plot line. At least Lando made an appearence in your book. He has disappeared in the rest. The man is humor and adventure waiting to happen if only he were used o

 

Stop With the Food Metaphores!!!!....

Food Metaphors are like Dog Food, Dogs adore it, they eat it. It all comes out as Crap in the end.

Food Metaphores are like Dog DooDoo. The dog excretes it, You come along and step in it, and drag it around all over the place. You might wipe it off, but part of it still lingers, and still Stinks really bad. People who look at you, or smell you, think you look like an idiot for having the crap on your foot.

Or in this case coming out of your mouth.

You know what, all that use food metaphors are Loopy Palookas.

So save the forum some strife and quite with the stupid food metaphors that can't even be said as accurate, and are just there to flame or rile up others into attacking, kind of like a Picador. In the end it just makes you all look foolish.