Full Series To you, what does Mortis symbolize?

I did have a thought about what Ahsoka's resurrection by the force could mean. People always say that the relationship between Ahsoka and Anakin is like that of a brother and sister. I think that may be even truer after Ahsoka is resurrected on Mortis. Anakin was born because of the force, and in a way Ahsoka was reborn through it on Mortis. I think that because of this you could make the argument that their relationship is closer to brother and sister when they left Mortis than when they had arrived. That, or I am reading too much into this...

 

Hell, I could have done with a full season of Mortis myself. Just not on TCW. You can only put so much mysticism in that show before it stops BEING that show.

I honestly think the story might have been better told in book form. There's room in a properly sized novel to take the kind of philosophical asides the arc was trying to take, and in greater depth than TCW could have or, perhaps, should have. Find the right author who has the right prose style, and the ideas present in the story could really sing.

 

Mortis is like the force planet, it is everywhere and then again nowhere. When you look at this along with the Witches of Dathomir TCW arcs, it really throws a wrench into what is capable and what is not. The one thing that Mortis established and cannot be written as something that is just a memory is that the powers of the force are immense. A true person whom can use the force can do anything. The father with the ability to fly and the son and daughter with the transformation to different creatures and then the force planet and those manifestations. These arcs changed the dynamics of star wars forever making possible things that back then were not. To talk about the Mortis arc and ignoring what Darth Maul did is a tavestry that we would make. Everything from what was introduced in TCW changed star wars forever and what we think is and is not.

 

Not sure if it was a planet but just some giant greenhouse like thing. Looked like some sorta vessel.

 

I do like the idea that, with the force, one can do anything with enough power.

 

The Mortis / Dathomir connections should really be explored in some depth next time the planet appears. The Book of Sith touched on a number of things, but the mainstream audience probably has little knowledge of that.

 

Same symbolism of the monolith is on the holocrons:



Reminds me of Stargate:

 

The Illum Jedi Temple also had the same Force symbolism found on Mortis:

 

In this aspect, I really enjoyed Luceno's Darth Plegiues book as it really delved into the powers of the force and to an extent solidified what was one capable off.

 

I'd say this best sums up what Mortis symbolizes to me.

One thing that's always puzzled me about the Son though: initially it's said that he represents the dark side, but over the course of the next episode the Daughter states how he's "chosen the dark side", and the Father I believe states something along the lines of "now that you've chosen the dark side." What was he before then? The Father and Daughter are describing these traits like they're recent developments.

 

Likely when Revan and Bane were edited out at some point after being animated, other dialogue pertaining to those scenes and original script and storyline was not all erased.

The goal of The Father of Mortis in the end, was not established, which would thus symbolize the constant state of unbalance - the Force Priestesses later essentially challenge anything stated from The Father which leaves that arc as just one possible interpretation of the The Force . Sidious in ROTS states if the Jedi are not all destroyed there would be civil war without end, which appears to be the case .

The storyline they use for the Sith, is also eventually the Sith will turn against eachother, even if they established dominance. Their version of peace and justice appears to be peace through war and the total subjugation of every individual in the galaxy its unclear how they actually believe that possible to stamp out all resistance in the galaxy and stop children of the Force being born. Then especially knowing their own nature as they themselves believe peace is a lie, Sidious himself does not lead a good track record as he killed his own master and discards his apprentices left and right which appears to be the Sith way or one way in which they do things. I think the end key would still have to be immortality, which guys like Plagueis and Sidious and Vader we know sort and I think its only thing makes sense for the Sith to really work in the end.

 

Something I'm wondering from this arc - it seems to depict the Force as having a control over life and death. Does this mean that the dark side cause death?

No, it would have ruined the entire concept of being able to 'Force Ghost' - something the Sith can inherently not do. Not sure what you mean by the 'Sith Shrine' being similar to this concept?

 

It would not of ruined anything, since they had the ability in the EU to retain their spirits and possess the living or haunt sacred places. In the EU there was Chaos or the Void or Hell, a place where Darksiders go. And the episodes started off following the same EU tradition - until very later Lucas called up Filoni and felt Sith being evil and all, should not have the ability to become "ghosts" despite the fact they have souls and are part've the Force and all beings are luminous. The word “ghost” comes from geist, the German word for spirit. So its just spirits. And we know certain shrines of the Sith have great darkside eternal power and the Force , both light and dark, is simply an energy field composed of positive and negative energies. Lucas new addition appears to be simply, those who choose the darkside pay the price of forfeiting their soul, and all they have is just their physical lives and will hold onto that at all costs ect ect. The Jedi becoming a disembodied spirit to teach or warn is found in Christian beliefs, but the darksidersare obviously able to summon Satan or demons(we see this in the summoning of Talzin in SOD, were supposed to see it in the Mortis arc with Revan and Bane and eventually saw it in the Yoda arc of season 6- Bane, Sith Warriors, the alerting of the Dark Lords Sidious and Tyranus), we see conjuring up the dead, or other practices that are supposed to ‘unveil’ the future.” Things like palm reading, interpreting omens, an interest in clairvoyance are all satanic rituals and associated with the Sith or Nightsisters and what not. Ghosts can't remain on earth for long, they have to go eventually to heaven, hell, or purgatory. Demons are spiritual entities that can posses the living(Talzin).

 

When you die you loose your consciousness, unless you learn the ability that Yoda, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon learn. So there is no way that the Sith can 'cheat death'. The EU stuff you mentioned has no bearing here.

 

Exactly, all beings become one with the force, except those who learn how to keep their consciousness. This is something that can only be learned through the use of the lightside making it inherently impossible for a darkside user to learn.

 

That's the irony of the Sith. Only through accepting death can you transcend it and achieve 'immortality'. That's the tragedy of Anakin's decision.

 

Mortis suggests death, like "rigor mortis" refers to the stiffening of the body post mortem. Or "muerte" in Spanish.

I found it curious that they would name a planet/monolith something meaning death, when what's on it symbolizes the duality of the Force. Light/dark, birth/death, day/night.

This is just my own head canon, but Mortis was an illusion. Son and Daughter were dead. Father saying he took his children and withdrew from the temporal world was a euphemism for killing them. Obi-Wan states the the planet IS the Force. Anakin, Ahsoka and Obi-Wan became one with the Force through some phenomenon and encountered these three beings that exist there (i.e. are dead). Qui-Gon could not take form in the physical plane, because he never finished the Priestess' training, but he could appear here, because the planet itself was a manifestation of the Force and he was dead.

The Father is the only one of the three that is alive. He loved his children, but couldn't allow their conflict to damage the Galaxy and so killed them. But he loves his kids and he joins them on Mortis where he can live with them and watch over them. Mortis sustains them. They do not know they are dead. The Son literally cannot leave, because he is dead. All of the fantastic things the characters can do (turning into beasts, touching lightsabers, the dagger) aren't real. It exists as part of the Father's fantasy. The Father has fears about the Son and believes he no longer can control him, but he believes Anakin can, and so Anakin can (in the Father's test). But as the Father's doubts about the Son grow, so does the Son's power. Daughter accepts her death and gives over the life Force that kept her from becoming one with the Force to Ahsoka to keep her alive.

The Son's mortality is tied to the Father's mortality, because Mortis was Father's fantasy. It was his attempt to keep his dead children "alive" in some form, as even though they were dead, he could keep them from crossing over as long as he kept them on Mortis, and he was selfish like that. He killed his children to protect the Galaxy but was unwilling to let them go. When Son feels like he no longer has use of Father, he kills Father, but Father was the only thing sustaining Mortis and keeping Son from crossing over. Thus, with Father's death, Anakin can "kill" Son, and Mortis literally begins collapsing upon itself.

Basically I consider Mortis to be a purgatory that Father keeps his dead children in because he is unwilling to let them go. When he does finally sacrifice himself and let them go, he passes the Priestess' test and merges with the Force himself.

 

The father being winged would possibly suggest he's some kinda Angelic or God-like entity, the over love the Son had for the Daughter, his sister was kinda weird , perhaps bordering on incestuous even. If they're imprisoned on that monolith for thousands of years and are immortals of some kind, then it would hard to ignore that kinda sexual build up and tension. Lucas seemed strangely interested on incest, even the Dathomirians are inbred. I can't really see The Father as a good guy, since he he imprisoned his own offspring inside that thing and would never let them go, he wanted Anakin to replace him as their slave master.

We only have part of the story since they cut out The Son and his fall to the darkside , along with his chats with Darth Bane and Darth Revan. They also cut some scene or dialogue where the Force Priestess said the the father of Mortis was wrong, his version of the Force was wrong or something. Filoni mentioned it on some clip.

Perhaps, you could probably say they're based on the concept of elementals, Water(Talzin/Great Mother?), Air(the Father), Earth(the Daughter) and Fire(the Son). But with just the three they come more off as the 3 fates or something, with Anakin having to reign them in to control the entire galaxy so that neither too much light nor too much darkness could reign supreme. The whole thing also comes off as more the grail Knight in Last Crusade, with Indiana having to replace the old Knight and safe guard the chalice.

I don't think Lucas really wanted any one set religion to of had the right religion and path to God, he just wanted all these religions interpreting the "great mystery", he was blending all sorts of religions and even pagan former religions in SW. But one would suspect he favored Jedi to be the closest to God - and the Jedi of the PT/TWC we learn were corrupt due to the Sith and essentially have to be purged and reborn cleansed and anew like a phoenix or something motif with Luke or whatever his chosen avatar or messiah was.

 

Honestly, the only thing it symbolizes to me is a waste of time...

 

Wow, really? I would've liked to see that. I have wondered what the Force Priestesses would've thought of the Father and such.

 

I'm about to finish up Lost for the first time and I'm on the third to last episode, "Across the Sea"...

...made me totally realize the Mortis arc was Star Wars doing Lost.

EDIT: Actually, this episode was released like 8 months before the Mortis arc. Could just be a coincidence.

 

There are echo's of Lost and the "flash sideways" seen is season 6 with Mortis. although the answers in Lost are far more complex I think.

the Mortis arc stuck out like a sore thumb to me (although not yet seen season 6 of TCW). whilst it was nice, it raised questions about the physical existence of the force (being able to extinguish a saber for example) and Obi Wan's completely "oh hi Qui Gon" as if he has seen him before but then getting all excited about being trained to commune with him in exile was really poor writing.

would anything be lost if Mortis wasn't made? I don't think so personally.

 

TCW would be rather empty with the Mortis and Yoda arcs; it helped to add another layer of mystery to the Force and explained the galaxy is far from black and white.

 

If anything, Mortis removed the mystery of it.

 

Filoni's attempt to copy The Two Towers.

Son = Saruman

Bane and Revan ghosts = Sauron

Just look at the Son's tower and compare it to Sauron's tower.