Top Ten Jedi/Sith Rankings

^
^Yeah, but how is Mace going to arrest Palpi when Palpi was faking and he totally owned Mace?

 

LINQ0311 posted:


Luke would have taken Mace...


MacetheCouncillor posted:

The simple answer is, no, not a chance and absolutely no. Not in the movie timeframe, in any case. Later, when he became a master, he would have a chance, but in the movies, he is ridiculously ill-trained by comparison. Check "Prime of the Jedi" on the TPM bonus material (Web documentaries), and things will be made real clear what wusses the Original Trilogy Jedi were compared to the Prequel Jedi, and Mace is one of the foremost in the latter group (if not THE foremost, although that is controversial and depends on how you interpret whether Mace legitimately disarmed Sidious). In any case, with what Lucas says in "A Jedi in his prime" there isn't a chance Luke could have taken Mace. It isn't the fanboy speaking. It is an objective assessment of the source.


That's why I love you MacetheCouncillor! You take my bait every time! I knew that if I threw that little tid bit out there about Luke taking Mace, you would show up and swallow it hook, line, and sinker! Ha ha that is great! I know exactly how to set you off on a rant, and I own you like Palpi owned Mace!!!

 

Assuming your side is correct. But I agree. Mace could never have arrested Palpatine (i.e. taken him alive). He might have been able to kill him, though. That is still under argument.

In any case, Mace can't really be the one who LOOKS like the aggressor when he STATES THE INTENTION of arresting Palpatine and Palpatine STATES THE INTENTION of killing him.

 

Believe it or not, I suspected it, but it doesn't matter. I am not going to let garbage like that stand without replying, whether it was bait or not. I was the one who stated the truth, so I am not making a fool of myself in any case.

 

^Okay well I am just having fun with you buddy. I don't think you were making a fool of yourself. I just think you are very serious, so I like to jack you up a bit every now and again.

 

LOL, yeah, fun for you. I am glad I can give someone enjoyment.

 

*bows*

Lets get back on topic shall we?

Lightsaber only rankings:

1. Master Yoda (The very definition of,"The Total Package". he never loses an inch and forces the enemy to use force powers to gain distance for a hope of survival. Yoda is near the top in Lightsaber skill AND Force powers)

2. Darth Sidious (he cuts threw 3 jedi masters in less than 20 seconds and can clearly be seen passing on a death blow in the Windu fight. His Force mastery is unmatched because he clouds his opponents use of the Force, but has a slight lightsaber weakness in defence of Vaapad)

3. Master Mace Windu (his skill is modified by his exceptional physical strength, battle experience, and rare mastery of Jedi lightsaber form seven Vaapad...he is on par with Master Yoda and Darth Sidious power wise, but is superior to Darth Sidious and Master Yoda in lightsaber combat when facing Darkside opponents)

4. Anakin Skywalker (his god-like skill is only held in check by his arrogance...he dictates his duel with Kenobi and displays superior power...and a lack of wisdom)

5. Darth Maul (his style shows Darth Sidious is indeed a great teacher...as it demonstrates that Sidious is deadly with any manner of lightsaber. Maul's technique is excellent, however his defence is disapointing as he allows his lightsager hilt to be split rather easily by a then Padawan Kenobi. Still Darth Maul is very very young and as such his experience must be taken into account)

6. Darth Tyrannus (he employs the best of both worlds...being trained by Master Yoda, he has exceptional technique, pacing, and footwork. being trained by Darth Sidious he has high level sith force powers that allow him to gain distance from mulitple or superior attackers)

7. Obi-Wan Kenobi (his skill is modified by his wisdom making him much more challenging than expected at his age...only deeply experienced and spiritual jedi masters and hardened sith lords can hope to gain advantages)

8. Luke Skywalker (he suffers from not even being trained in lightsaber arts, but instead in force concepts and powers alone. yet he proves that the force really does control a jedi's flow in a fight. he has good technique modified by un-naturally high force sensitivity. this makes him better with a lightsaber almost every minute of every hour without even practicing)

9. Qui Gon Ginn (he has good technique and solid defence, but has not figured a way to add his tremendous wisdom and spirituality as a modifier...this puts him at a disadvantage against any jedi or sith that has better offence or defence)

The above mentioned section is my assessment of Lightsaber ONLY skills

Power rankings:

1. Master Yoda (The very definition of,"The Total Package". he never loses an inch and forces the enemy to use force powers to gain distance for a hope of survival, he is tops in lightsaber skill and force powers combined)

2. Darth Sidious (he cuts threw 3 jedi masters in less than 20 seconds and can clearly be seen passing on death blows in the Windu fight early on....a mistake that costs him later on as the tables turn. his lightsaber skill is high, not supreme.....but his force powers are second to none in the entire PT)

3. Master Mace Windu (his skill is modified by his exceptional physical strength and his battle experience...his Vaapad style brings Darth Sidious to his knees before him....before betrayal steps in. his lightsaber skill and force ability is on par with Master Yoda's, but not superior to)

4. Anakin Skywalker (his god-like skill is only held in check by his arrogance...he dictates his duel with Kenobi and displays superior power...and a lack of wisdom. he has the potential to be the greatest force user in history and bring balance to the force.....he accomplishes the later)

5. Luke Skywalker (he suffers from not even being trained in lightsaber arts, but instead in force concepts and powers alone. yet he proves that the force really does control a jedi's flow in a fight. he has good technique modified by un-naturally high force sensitivity. this

 

Baiting, for any reason, is NOT ALLOWED. Don't do it again.

 

Lightsaber skill:

1.Anakin Skywalker
2.Yoda
3.Mace Windu
4.Count Dooku
5.Sidious
6.Obi-Wan
7.Maul

Power:

1.Sidious
2.Yoda
3.Anakin
4.Mace
5.Dooku
6.Obi-Wan
7.Maul

 

Good Question. I have to agree with some of the others out there, though-Grievous was not a Jedi-However, he took out enough to make the list so here goes.
1.Anakin-(Schooled Dooku, matched Obi-just made a slight boo-boo, took out Mace, and all the other Jedi at the temple-I really wish that was in the movie and we didn't have to make up the scene in our minds-have you played the game-it was awesome watching Anakin kick jedi butt! Oh, but I'm a Vader freak, so I think he could take care of business against anyone, as long as he focused on his anger, he was never angry with Luke, except when Luke popped him on the shoulder then in less than 3 seconds Luke lost his hand-because Vader is the man!
2.Yoda-He hops around too much, plus he matched Palpatine, Yoda was right, if he was so strong why leave?
3. Palpatine-we finally see him fight! Even though the scene was shot cheesy-he took out 3 jedi masters like nothing! It was my understanding from the book or something I read that he could use the force to disappear/cloak where he surprised the Jedi-again in the movie he looked slow, but he held his own against the famed Yoda-and again from the movie it was hard to tell that he let mace beat him, in the book it was clear that he wanted to lose, but the movie made it look like mace bested him.
4. Mace Windu-Hey, Samuel Jackson is just a cool guy, let alone a powerful Jedi. He did good against the emperor, but Anakin got the best of him. I don't think the movies showed Maces true ability, so I have to go on the clone wars cartoons for a little assistance.
5. Count Dooku-A sith lord and master with the sword. He trained under palpatine, so you know he's got his stuff together. By the way he manhandled obi-wan each matchup. However, we saw a determined anakin wipe the floor with this would be master of the sword.
6. Darth Maul-Fancy moves, speed, and agility, he didn't lose to obi-wan in a sword fight-I recall him throwing obi-wan into the shaft, he lost because he had a blonde moment and didn't really think out that situation before he was sliced into a club sandwich.
7. Obi Wan Kenobi- You may wonder why he's down here, but if we look at his saber fights, his record isn't that good, Maul threw him in the shaft, dooku beat him twice, and grievous wasn't killed by a blade, but a blaster, obi didn't whoop grievous either, got him a few limbs shorter, but had to use the force. Anakins fight was baffeling to me, I didn't think it showed his true ability after he spanked dooku, to be matched by obi wan, didn't make sense.
8. Qui-Gon-He may be old, but he had experience and was a strong swordsman.
9. Grievous, yes he barely makes the list, but he killed a bunch of jedi, and didn't do too shabby against obi wan.
10.Luke Skywalker-Don't get me wrong-I like Luke, but he was the least experienced of all these guys and would've gotten spanked by any of them, including grievous if that match happened. I still believe that Vader let Luke cut his hand off, because he had no intention of killing his son, that was his only alternative to fighting the enraged Luke, so he let down his guns, other wise Vader would annihalate all of the above if he were pi**ed enough!!
Enjoy!-again this is saber skills only!!!!!!

 

In the SWC we used to have a thread that was a game that was based largely around these sorts of rankings and who would beat who in a fight and so on. The list was usually subject to change and included EU, but this is what it usually was, and it was debated to DEATH.

1. Luke Skywalker (EU included)
2. Darth Sidious
3. Yoda
4. Darth Vader
5-7. Obi/Mace/Anakin (varied)
8. Count Dooku

Those were the members of the top 10 that were in the movies.

 

2. Darth Sidious
3. Yoda

say whaaaaaaat? surely that got that mixed up!



ps - anyone ever watch clone high? gandhi used to say "say whaaaaat" all the time in one episode.


EDIT: C76, its hard to get off the "did sidious allow mace to win" derailment with

2. Darth Sidious (he cuts threw 3 jedi masters in less than 20 seconds and can clearly be seen passing on a death blow in the Windu fight.

3. Master Mace Windu

you save it with

but has a slight lightsaber weakness in defence of Vaapad

and

he is on par with Master Yoda and Darth Sidious power wise, but is superior to Darth Sidious and Master Yoda in lightsaber combat when facing Darkside opponents

nice save

 

No, it was correct. Like I said, EU was considered in all judgments, and if you are an EU fan, that rises Sidious's stock by quite a bit.

And even if you hadn't, I dont see the argument for Yoda over Sidious. They squared off. Sidious sent Yoda packing. No, he didnt dominate him, but he overpowered him with lightning multiple times (if you read the book, which was used in judghing) and held even with Yoda with lightsabers. There is really no way to give the match to Yoda, except for the whole deflecting his lighting thing at the end.

 

like ive said before, yes! sidious clearly shows his superiority while dangling off the senate pod, blindly clutching onto a rail. what an advanced sith combat technique! he totally fooled me, i thought he got lucky. no, it was his plan all along to do that, epecially after losing yoda's postition in the fight not once, but twice!

did i mention im a yoda fan?

 

Like I said, all those things were always debated by both sides very strongly by all sides. And while Yoda got his licks in and had Sidious dangling from the pod, it should also be noted that Yoda was in the exact same position himself and lost his position multiple times. That is why Sidious had the leverage in the first place, although it wasnt shown in the movie for whatever reason.

Yoda fought hard, but Sidious got more of Yoda than Yoda got of him , IMO. Some people see it differently of course.

 

ya, i just feel the need to step in and defend yoda whenever i can, prolly way too much.




you know, one part ive never thought about myself in this way, is when sidious says, "you will not stop (doesnt say defeat/kill) me, darth vader will become more powerful than either of us."

its not just fear talking. its almost appealing to the logic that yoda cant stop all evil, especially anakin. sidious will sacrifice himself to kill yoda, to get his revenge. so, in that way, sidious has already succeeded, the sith hav got revenge, even if sidious gets wiped out too. but the will of the force was strange that day, the underdogs both won (obi-wan and, i would say, sidious). if u didnt know, who would hav guessed?

this is getting off topic so im gonna hav to bail soon.

 

Haha Sidious was only the underdog in Yoda's fans minds.

This is a guy who stands before the entire jedi order, made all his machinations in front of them, and when the time finally came wiped out the order. Thats hardly an underdog.

I would say both Obi-Wan and Yoda were underdogs, one won, one lost.

 

very good point, but in the movie yoda clearly looks like the superior fighter to me. sidious the sith is fighting on his heels (and this is at his peak, with the senate and armies and the will of the force).


sidious loses yoda twice in battle, yoda is always aware of sidious' location.

sidious looks scared when yoda reflects his electricity (yoda looks like he is getting stronger)


everything was up for grabs at that point, even with sidious' cheap, destructive tactics. yoda couldnt be hit by that electricity, how was sidious really going to win?

 

It's interesting that people can look at something and see it in opposite ways (I mean that in a good way ).

I saw Yoda as being on the defensive for more of the fight than Sidious. I think this is especially true in the novelization.

Yoda was overpowered by his lightning multiple times until the end, when he was able to deflect it, only while he was in pain, and only to the point of harming both himself and Sidious.

Sidious was throwing multiple pods from an elevated position, while Yoda had difficulty sending a single one back up at him. Fortunately, Sidious had to laugh like an idiot, thinking Yoda wouldnt be up to task, which he was.

They seemed very equal to me with lightsabers. I never saw Sidious as being in danger except when Yoda came to his pod with a lightsaber. Sidious neutralized him pretty quickly, IMHO.

 

o man, we do see the fight differently, but youre prolly rite, youve read the novels.

i dont think sidious was laughing because he was strictly overconfident. it was a source of his evil emotions & power, to me, a byproduct of his style. he loves danger, risk, destruction, he needs it to be at his best, think how crazy that is.

yoda is defensive because he is constructive, never turning to the darkside at all to defeat sidious, not smashing up pods (cmon! he could just as much as sidious!). he redirects a pod about to be destroyed right back at the source of destruction, thats power!

if they were equal in lightsabers, then why did sidious lose his and yoda didnt, in the movie.

also, in the movie, yoda takes a 1st blast of electricity like sidious takes a force push from yoda, more to size eachother up, imho, than anything else.

 

o man, we do see the fight differently, but youre prolly rite, youve read the novels.

I actually haven't, Im just going by what people who have read it say. I dont even think there is a "right" answer to this. Just opinion and speculation.

i dont think sidious was laughing because he was strictly overconfident. it was a source of his evil emotions & power, to me, a byproduct of his style. he loves danger, risk, destruction, he needs it to be at his best, think how crazy that is.

That could be. He was laughing like that also when he was dangling from the pod. I would however, disagree that Sidious likes risk and danger. I think he trys to minimize those things in his life as much as possible (when it involves him putting himself in direct danger). That is why he never attack the Jedi openly in combat until they attacked him (Mace), and why he tried to dodge Yoda by leaving.

yoda is defensive because he is constructive, never turning to the darkside at all to defeat sidious, not smashing up pods (cmon! he could just as much as sidious!). he redirects a pod about to be destroyed right back at the source of destruction, thats power!

Hey, who said fighting offensively is not constructive? Sidious took his tactical advantage and utilized it to a great effect. Also, I am of the mind that Sidious could have sent the pod right back at Yoda, if he wasnt laughing at him. He grabbed 3 at a time! I do think you are right in identifying Yoda's power in how he could smash the pods and do everything Sidious could do if he were so inclined. However, as a jedi he is at a limitation in that he cant use the full breadth of skills (by that i mean darkside powers) that he might be able to. Sidious has no such limtation, and that is why I think he is stronger in this case.

if they were equal in lightsabers, then why did sidious lose his and yoda didnt, in the movie.

I dont think he lost his in the movie did he? He just didnt have it out when Yoda jumped into his pod. Maybe he did in the book, but I kind off doubt it.

also, in the movie, yoda takes a 1st blast of electricity like sidious takes a force push from yoda, more to size eachother up, imho, than anything else.

I see your point. IMO, the lightning was more devastating than the push, just by the violent nature of what actually hit Yoda (Lightning) and what hit Sidious (a Wall). But Yoda was certainly surprised at the ferocity of the attack, you could see it in his facial expression. Much like Palps later.

 

MACE WINDU: You are under arrest, My Lord.

PALPATINE: Anakin! I told you it would come to this. I was right. The Jedi are taking over.

MACE WlNDU: The oppression of the Sith will never return . . . you have lost . . .

PALPATINE: No! No! You will die!

Mace clearly declares that Palpatine is under arrest (as opposed to being about to be killed) after Anakin arrives. Then, after these exchanges in conversation, Palpatine says that Mace will day. I can't see how that would make a strong case for the idea of Mace being the aggressor. "You will die" is more aggressive by far than "You are under arrest."

by MacetheCouncillor



Of course in Ani's eyes, Mace was the aggressor. Look at it in Ani's eyes and forget about the duel when Palps was all evil and killed Mace's posse in seconds...just forget that.....and just think of the fragile and nice Chancellor who's been telling you that the Jedi were the LIARS all along. And also this wise nice old man had the power to save Padme saying to you that IF THE JEDI DESTROY ME no Padme.

So without witnessing the Palps vs. Mace and posse.....you just walked right up and you witness Mace with his saber on your nice friend on the ground. How would see that as??

Palpatine - I wasr right! The JEdi are taking over.

That line there^^^ already signalled a set-up.

But like I said before Mace was still doing the right thing by arresting him hence forth why Palps had to do his lightning followed by the begging which was confirmed by Rick and Pablo to be faking.


After being at Mace's mercy:

-Palps finally got Ani off his CONFLICTED state.

-Palps finally could say, "Commander Cody, the TIME HAS COME. Execute Order 66." Hmmmm the time has come huh??

-Palps finally have a valid reason to the senate why he did that to their guardians.

-Palps finally have a valid reason to create an Empire.

Those are not coincidences.



Anyways, GL is finally going to CONFIRM it on the DVD.


Unfortunately, it's this:


"This has been the biggest debate among the Star Wars community. And i'm here to settle it once and for all. Yes, Palpatine was faking when Anakin entered the room."
George Lucas ROTS DVD Commentary


Well duh GL!!

Everyone knows that. What everyone wants to know if it's a SEt-up all along or did he just took advantage of the situation when Ani walked in???


You see even after the DVD, this debate will go on.

 

Yeah I try Master Double J

 

Well if you ask me i would say

1. Kit Fisto
2. Plo koon
3. Qui-Gon
4. Darth Vader (Classic)
5. Cin Dralig
6. Obi-Wan
7. Exar-Kun
8. Aaylaa Secura
9. Naga Sadow
10. Darth Plagiues

Well really they are all cool and the dumbest is obviously
SIDIOUS (More like sididum) and Dooku

 

interesting take on this thread topic.....