Under age drinking.

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Captain-Communist, Jun 16, 2002.

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  1. Captain-Communist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2002
    star 3
    When I go to a party I'm responsible. But a lot of other people are stupid and get really drunk and drive home and kill people.
    or over drink and poison themselves.
    Do you think as long as people are responsible with alcohol that they can do it?
  2. darth_boy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 7
    I think anyone should be allowed to drink as long as they are careful, but personally i dont drink. IMO there is just as much chance of a young person drink driving, than there is of an adult
  3. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    I say as long as you don't drive, and you don't become abusive, go ahead and drink.

    Why just the other day, while I was banned, I went out to a German restaurant. Long story short, I ended up sleeping on the steps when I got home.

    I don't drink everyday, and the only reason I do drink is to have fun. I know what will happen if I drink too much, but accept that. And as long as I don't get too out of hand, why not.

    Latre! :D
  4. Darth_Drunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 1
    You realize alcohol has negative effects on the body, right? If you are 15 your body is still developing, you really can't throw in something like alcohol. No matter what you think or tell yourself, you, as a teenager, can't handle the effects of alcohol. A lot of adults I know can't even handle it.
  5. Captain-Communist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2002
    star 3
  6. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    I would have to agree. If too young it can have a negative effect on people.

    I didn't start until I was 18. That is still underage, but I was also an adult, and able to make that choice. It was in college (surprise) and it was an acceptable social activity.

    Now, what's the difference between 16 & 18 you might ask? Not much, except I the only one I was accountable to was the police. While in high school I saw many of my friends get caught drinking. They had to answer to the law, school (many were in sports and got suspened from playing), and their parents.

    But, who am I to preach? How else do we learn in life other than trial and error, unless you really believe what others tell you. Some people just need to learn the hard way.

    Latre! :D

  7. thegreatyoda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2001
    star 4
    It's easy to say from an objective [and sober] standpoint "well, if they are responsiable, let them". Two problems with that.

    1. If they are drinking under age then they are already not responsiable because they are breaking the law.

    2. From what I understand, drinking seriously impares judgement. After the sixth can of beer I'm sure that a kid thinks that he can drive fine. And the kid thought about it so he's being responsiable right? Wrong.

    There are already enough drinking problems with adults. Telling kids "break the law, but be responsiable" is not only stupid, but dangerous.
  8. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    They are going to break the law anyway. The best you can do is give them some good advise.

    Are you going to stop every teen when they want to drink? Not even the law can stop them from drinking. All it can do is try to prevent it. No matter what you or I say, it is ultimately up to the person who does it. I'm not holding a gun to their head telling them to drink.

    At any rate, I don't think teens should drink, atleast not until they are 18 and out of high school.

    Latre! :D
  9. StarFire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    They are going to break the law anyway. The best you can do is give them some good advise.

    I'm not going to. "They're going to do it anyway" is used to justify all kinds of things that shouldn't be catered too, and it's got to stop.
  10. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    Well like you said some people are stupid and not responsible. There is no way to stop youngsters from getting booze, but when they are caught doing it then they need to have the book thrown at them hard.

    So if your stupid enough to do it then your stupid enough to arrested. Basically if your caught drinking and driving then well it's already going to cost you big time money wise since when the hearings and fines are all done you could pay up to 10,000 dollars. That is in Florida though. I think if someone under the age of 21 is caught drinking and driving then they should have their license to drive suspended until they are 21.

    This still will not keep stupid people from doing this, but heck as long as they are getting punched in the face instead of smacked and there pocket book is getting effected as well then what more can you do. Oh lock them up well I'm all for that too. I think a few nights in county lock up will straighten up any 16 or 18 year old thinking they are hot stuff when they come to meet the low life scum in those places.

    Basically for me maximum penalty should be carried out in all offenses. The trick is to scare the hell out of them the first time offenders so that they don't do what they did ever again and not let them off easy. You can drop the crime rate by 50% if you do this. Slaps on the wrist don't work with me, because I've had personal experience where when you do that repeatedly the criminal or first time offender doesn't fear or respect the law, but when you take them down for the count they and others like them who have at least 5% brain compacity reaccess the situation and either decide to reform or go on until their caught.
  11. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    I'm all for maximum penalties as well. First drunk driving offense should be 3 years. See how many people will do it again after they get out.

    Either you are going to drink, or you're not. Like I said, it is ultimately up to the person. If they want to do it, they will.

    It is an activity that they will eventually be able to do legally in the future. It is not like they are murdering someone, and I am saying, "I don't think you should kill others, but if you are going to do it, wear gloves so you don't leave fingerprints at the scene."

    I think it would be stupid just to inform them about the consequences and not about the experience of doing it as well.

    Latre! :D
  12. Darth-Protius Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2002
    star 3
    Part of the reason that teenagers drink, in my honest opinion, is the fact that it IS illegal. Its a thrill, its exciting to do something that you know you're not supposed to do.

    However I found out when I turned 21' the magic was gone. It just wasn't as exciting to be legal and buy your own, than have to search out a buyer and then go looking for a "drinking spot" I still drink, but only from time to time these days.

    On the other had though, turning 21 is like the keys to the kingdom for some people.

    I honestly think though, that if teenagers want to drink, theyre going to get their booze no matter how much you tell them not to. The forbidden is exciting, and tempting.
  13. Darth_Drunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 1
    "Now, what's the difference between 16 & 18 you might ask? Not much, except I the only one I was accountable to was the police. "

    Actually, there are huge physiological differences. And remember, 18 is still too young to drink in the states.
  14. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
  15. That_Flashing Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 5
    No matter what you think or tell yourself, you, as a teenager, can't handle the effects of alcohol. A lot of adults I know can't even handle it.

    I disagree with that. It totally depends on the person. I've used alcohol on many different occasions and been completely responsible with it. Me and my friends know the difference between having a good time and being stupid. Being a teenager has nothing to do with it, in my opinion. Everyone's different.
  16. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    I was also going to say, that in the mind of the teenager, there is not much of a difference when it comes to age. Atleast not any that you are going to convince them about. :)


    Latre! :D

    (Hey, I just noticed Darth_Drunk's name was Darth_Drunk, and that we are talking about drinking. [face_laugh] )
  17. Silmarillion Manager Emerita/Ex RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 1999
    star 6
    -- No matter what you think or tell yourself, you, as a teenager, can't handle the effects of alcohol. A lot of adults I know can't even handle it.

    So all those countries where the legal drinking age is 16 or 18 is what exactly?

    Here is Australia drinking doesn't have quite the same dour conotations as it does in other countries. We are good drinkers here and it starts from a young age.

    Teenagers will always do stupid things and thinking they can handle a whole bottle of Jim Beam is just one of them. That doesn't mean that all kids can't have a glass of wine or a celebratory drink when it comes to it.
  18. Debo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2001
    star 5
    My thoughts exactly.
  19. AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 3
    "If they are drinking under age then they are already not responsiable because they are breaking the law."


    HAHAHAHAHA! Alright, alright. See, this is what happens when people let their government think for them, never stopping to consider that possibly the government has poor and corrupt judgements on certain things. The law doesn't have anything to do with morality nor does it effect the responsibility issues of doing ANYTHING. Don't go worshipping laws now, and condemning any who break them. That's the kind of attitude that could lead to a future similar to a Philip K. Dick story.



    "From what I understand, drinking seriously impares judgement. After the sixth can of beer I'm sure that a kid thinks that he can drive fine."


    Huh? From what you understand? Go drink some beer or hang out with someone who is, and then comment on it. Reading about it in textbooks, as you seem to have, is hardly the same as understanding it.



    "There are already enough drinking problems with adults. Telling kids "break the law, but be responsiable" is not only stupid, but dangerous."


    No it's not, it's common sense. It's like telling kids to use condoms when they have sex, instead of just not to have sex at all. People understand now that youths, many immature but not all, will do these things, have sex and drink alcohol, and so instead of just telling them not to and leaving them alone, they're helping safen up the entire thing by promoting condom use if you DO have sex as a kid, and by promoting a designated driver if you DO drink as a kid.



    And frankly, if the kid is physically able to handle alcohol, and not a total fool, it can be a harmless addition to a party or night of hanging out. It's annoying to see obviously inexperienced, overly-conservative people come in and try to stigmatize what is essentially a harmless act.
  20. Dacks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2001
    star 2
    Underage drinking is a great learning tool for life.
  21. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    Amadeus

    Are you saying alcohol consumption doesn't impair judgement?

    "People understand now that youths, many immature but not all, will do these things, have sex and drink alcohol."

    I can say with certainty that it is a false assumption that all or even many youths will do these things. You claim to be experienced, but if you believe the old "all the kids are doing it" mantra, I believe you're mistaken. Most youths have the good judgement to avoid these types of things before they're ready for them. Which also means that the ones most likely to do them are the ones most likely to have problems because of them.
  22. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    My opinion is that it can go two ways. Some of this may be a topic for another thread, so I'm not going to elaborate too much on that aspect, but here goes:

    1) I agree that part of the thrill of drinking for a teenager is that it is illegal. Take away the illegal aspect of it here in America, and maybe teenagers here will behave with alcohol as they do in other countries.

    2) On the other hand, since drugs are illegal, including marijuana, which I believe to be a lot less harmful than alcohol (when is the last time you heard of a guy beating up his wife and kids because he was high on pot?), I think alcohol should be illegal too--for everyone, not just those under 21. But again, that's a topic for another thread.
  23. Dacks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2001
    star 2
    I've always found it odd, that when I travelled down to US college parties, the drinking habits were ridulously immature even in comparison to some of the worst nights I had with my friends in Montreal when we were all fifteen and sixteen.

    For Jimmy's Sake, the beer's not even good down there!
  24. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    ag (A presence I've not felt since... ;)

    "I agree that part of the thrill of drinking for a teenager is that it is illegal. Take away the illegal aspect of it here in America, and maybe teenagers here will behave with alcohol as they do in other countries. "

    Maybe - but is it really the illegality of it, or just that it's taboo, like sex?

    You could then say we should remove the taboo. But how? I mean, you get to a point where there's just certain things you don't want kids doing, and just by that very fact, they're going to want to do them.

    Also, it's kinda dangerous to enter the mindset of making things legal in an effort to make them less attractive.
  25. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Very good point there, Darth Fierce, and I'm actually in favor of some form of prohibition--by "some form" I mean doing a better job of it than we did in the 20s. I don't really know that teenagers are any more dangerous with alcohol than some adults are; however, the part about it being taboo does make it very enticing to said teenagers.
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