Lit Unpopular EU opinions

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Team Padme, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    When did Luke come across as hypermasculine in shadows of Mindor? And we've seen people survive absurd injuries before in SW (Maw, Maul ect)
  2. Hope Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 1999
    star 4
    Someone please blow up the Falcon already.

    I'm glad there were no Solos in Legacy.

    Leia never should have been a Jedi. Just because you have Skywalker blood flowing through your veins does not mean you're Jedi material.

    I hate Saba.

    I'm not impressed with huge displays of Force powers.

    Palpatine. Not impressed.

    I like Ben but I wish he had been a girl.

    I never read Traitor.

    I hate Coruscant.

    If one of the big three had to die tomorrow, I would pick Leia.

    I don't get the huge fuss over Kyle Katarn.

    I hate that Jacen had a child.

    I don't really like Thrawn.

    I probably would have preferred if Lando never married.
  3. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    She is rather annoying
  4. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    :eek:
  5. imiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2004
    star 3
    How familiar are you with Miller's comics work, particularly Batman? I'm more thinking of Windu, but both Jacen and Ganner in Traitor and Luke in Mindor have more of the overly stoic attitude that grates on me from All-Star Batman and Robin.

    Luke is significantly better in Mindor than the others, I admit. To me, though, Stover's just a pile of problematic philosophical stances combined with pretentious wannabe literary styles. He's got loads of talent and I can see the appeal, it just turns me way off instead of on.
  6. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Samuel L Jackson. That is all
    How is he a wannabe exactly?
  7. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Denning seems to enjoy over the top violence when it doesn't really serve the plot. Granted, Stover is also very big on over the top violence- his Acts of Caine books are the king of this, even though the violence is completely called for in the setting- yet I find they don't tend to pervade his Star Wars books when they're not needed. In addition, Denning seems to have that "dark for darks sake" thing that Miller, especially late crazy Miller, does, where I'd argue that Stover's book are often the opposite of dark and solemn. All of his Star Wars books have a light at the end of the tunnel, even Revenge of the Sith (which is done much, much better in the novel than in the movie), where Denning is perfectly fine turning Jacen to the dark and then killing him.

    Some of Stover's characters do have Milleresque tendencies; I'd imagine Hari Michaelson (Stover original) and Dark Knight Returns Batman would really enjoy having a beer together. That said, I also think he's capable of writing pacifistic, gentle, and overall "nice guy" characters that aren't total straw men like they are for Frank Miller. Luke Skywalker and quite a few of his originals in particular. Haven't read Traitor so can't comment on how he handles Jacen.

    Still, I'm not sure I'd be unkind enough to compare Denning to the drek that is All Star Batman and Robin. Maybe Sin City and 300?

    I absolutely love that Luke portrayal; I honestly prefer it over Zahn's. Same gentle, introspective farmboy we know, but was perfectly willing to stand up for himself. Apparently that totally disappears when Luke is around Mara =((
    Last edited by instantdeath, Sep 15, 2012
  8. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I personally love the whole cross between Joe Abercrombie and Gene Wolfe style he's got going on, but I could see how it might be a bit repulsive to some. Even I get annoyed by Stover's insistence on capitalizing important phrases (this is bumped up to 11 in his original work).

    I actually like some of the literary techniques Stover uses; for example, I thought his use of second person in Revenge of the Sith was brilliantly executed. On the other hand, some fall flat. In Heroes Die and Blade of Tyshalle, he writes parts of the book from the gods point of view, and these POV's can get so abstract that they're a bit annoying to read.

    EDIT: Damn, double post.
    Last edited by instantdeath, Sep 15, 2012
  9. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I had friends that said he made Luke more interesting
  10. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I love Zahn's Luke, but I have this sneaking position that Zahn might have allowed Aeona to walk all over Luke. Nice to see at least one book where Luke has a backbone.
  11. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    So, when are we getting Goddamn Jedi?
  12. WynnDorvan Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Seconded.
  13. imiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2004
    star 3
    Hmm. I thought this was just a way to let off steam, especially for those of us who want a safe space to just yell "I don't like this" and then get back to talking about more popular things. But if people are okay with some discussion, I can do it for a bit.

    Sam Jackson. Who is, actually, a big fan of Frank Miller. I appreciate both Jackson and Miller's work, but it really doesn't speak to me.
    Stylistic concerns are the realm of detailed explication essays, but suffice to say I admire Stover's willingness to use new writing tools, but don't think those tools are as well integrated into the Star Wars tone and themes as, say, Allston, who also uses some very sophisticated stylistic tools, but isn't nearly as flashy about it.


    I see - that's a fair response. I personally don't have that reaction to Stover, but perhaps it is a bit unfair to compare almost anything to ASBAR. And I agree completely that Stover has more going on than Denning.

    I love Zahn's Luke. Stover's Luke is actually probably a lot better than I give him credit for, but the plot events surrounding him were troubling to me. Honestly, I should probably reread the book, since I have so many conflicted feelings about it. I can see where you think Zahn's Luke lets people walk over him - but I didn't really see that in Survivor's Quest. More in Vision of the Future, which is extremely deliberate, as Zahn is, OOU trying to address the conflicting versions of Luke and get it back to a characterization he finds palatable (which I am completely in favor of doing), and IU showing the effects the history has had on Luke. It worked for me, especially after being frustrated with several of the SW books and Luke's portrayal in them.
  14. GrandMasterKatarn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2008
    star 4
    I hate Troy Denning
    I hate Dark Nest/LOTF/FOTJ, especially Tempest, Allies, and Ascension
    Denning's Barabels are annoying, and come across as know-it-alls and holier-than-thou
    I hate Saba Sebatyne
    I dislike Aaron Allston. The man writes every character as 14/15 year olds
    Karen's Mandalorians are fine but a bit shoe-horned into her works but not in the same godawful way TD shoe-horns in Saba Sebatyne
    I hate the Mortis Trilogy in TCW
    I hate Ahsoka Tano
    I hate Dark Empire, DE II, and Empire's End
    I hate TFU
    I dislike Cestus Deception, everything was too stoic
    I hate Cloak of Deception, it's just filler and boring
    I hate Millennium Falcon, the novel was filler, stoic, and boring
    KotOR (first game) sucked
    I hate Revan (both novel and character)
    TOR is horrible
    I hate Drew Karpyshyn
    I hate TCW pansy Mandalorians
    I love Bill Deitz's Dark Forces trilogy
    I like Karen's portrayal of Boba Fett
    KotOR II rocks
    I love Jedi Exile
    Meetra Surik is a godawful name, and bears no relation to Jedi Exile
    I like Rosh Penin
    I love Jedi Trial, Planet of Twilight, Crystal Star, Children of the Jedi
    I love the YJK series
    MasterOfEnlightenment likes this.
  15. imiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2004
    star 3
    Right on, man!
  16. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    [IMG]
    Zeta1127 likes this.
  17. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    I'm largely indifferent to KOTOR II, Kreia is extremely overrated, and I think Meetra Surik is an awesome name.
    Zeta1127 and Esg like this.
  18. imiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2004
    star 3
    Really? This is the unpopular opinions club. We already know people don't approve...I don't think expressing it constantly is helpful in this thread...
    Rew likes this.
  19. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 5
    Nice conviction in your views, @GrandMasterKatarn, but a lot of those aren't really unpopular, especially the stuff about Denning, TCW and Drew K.
    Last edited by Todd the Jedi, Sep 15, 2012
    RC-1991 and Zeta1127 like this.
  20. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Their is something called being facetious
  21. imiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2004
    star 3
    Certainly your right to do so, I just was hoping to have a space where we could let off steam on things that bother us without worrying about being disliked or criticized for it.
  22. krtmd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 4
    Mara Jade is a Mary Sue.
  23. imiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2004
    star 3
    Wait, Karpyshan isn't popular? I thought general opinion was that his stuff was awesome (opinion that I do not share, sadly).
  24. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    TFU2 ending is the best ever and not appalling at all. Daala being COS was a great idea. Jaina killing Jacen was another great idea.
  25. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 5
    He's really hit or miss, it seems. I personally like the Bane books, but I know a lot of people here who've expressed great displeasure toward them.