VIP's

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Sith-Lord-Gunray, Oct 29, 2010.

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  1. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    Hear me out!

    One cannot deny that the forums are overcrowded with VIP's. Everyone has got colors nowadays except for the few humble, dedicated users who don't bother to push their way into getting them. I would screenshot the overuse of VIPship in the JCC right now, but I'm on a pc at the moment, and am incompetent as it is enemy territory. But imagine it in your head. It's like a pretty field of wild wheat. The wheat is beautiful. And then you see the garrish unwanted toys of a child littered throughout it. The bright purples. The bright yellows. The vomit oranges.

    Aesthetics really isn't the point though. It's more about, how can VIP's be used to the JC's advantage. I remember back when I was a really obnoxious 14 year old on the JC, and VIP's were a near-impossible title to get. It actually made me want to post better. To not troll. To think before I posted. I actually had respect for those with colors, because I knew that they must have done SOMETHING that was of much higher standard than what I was doing, and were therefore role-models. And isn't that what being VIP is about? To set an example for other users, but at the same time be rewarded for hard work.

    Then what about the moderators who mod only a few months, or even a month, drop out and then are awarded with infinite VIPness? Let's be real - I didn't do anything in my what, 3 months of modding, to deserve colors and then set a positive example for other users. I mean, not that I'm a bad example, I'm just neutral. And I'd say the same for a good deal of other ex-mods/managers. In fact, a lot of them have turned into trolls.

    Now let's switch to those who run games. "Games" is a wide spectrum. Some games take minimal to no work to run. Some games take a lot of work. How does VIPship factor in to that? Well, I remember when I was modding the typical argument (and fair argument) was that the creators needed to be VIPs in order to perform certain actions in order to run the games. Which made sense at the time. I can't think of what any of those actions are now, though. The second argument I've heard is that VIPing game creators brings attention to the games, and attention to the games = more posting. Well that would be great if it were true, and maybe in other forums it is true, but in the JCC it's not. How many mindless games do we have going right now, where there is literally no reason why the user should be VIP besides to have the title in his name (can't that just be done without having him be vip anyways...?). I might think, that maybe it's a rewarding system. You run this fun game, you get colors. Increase post count, increase the happies. Well...it doesn't make a difference. A good game is a good game regardless if the creator is VIP. And if the creator is only making the game to be rewarded, then he shouldn't be making the game to begin with. Because basically, at this point, ANYONE can think up a game and be rewarded. Where's the challenge? Where's the role-modeling? Where's the higher expectations/standards? I know it may seem a bit cheesy to rely on things like that, especially because when you get down to it this is an internet forum. But in the end...having standards like that really plays a huge part of shaping the community.

    So that would bring me to my final point, which is my personal view. And I certainly don't expect anyone to agree with this fully because it's a bit extremist. But I would completely be fine with revoking all VIPs to game runners and select ex-mods. As I said before, I don't know how other forum games are run besides in the JCC, so revoking the VIPness would apply *only* to the JCC. If those in other forums behave in the same manner that JCC games do, by all means sure, same goes for them, but I suspect that they don't. As for select ex-mods - those who did not even make it to manager status would be revoked, and those who have been VIP for a certain number of years after their modly duties. I mean, it doesn't make sense to keep someone VIP 5 years after they stopped modding if they only modded for 2 years. I would al
  2. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I vote we start raising standards by removing SLG's VIP status. She's a terrible person.
  3. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    I vote that my VIP status be upgraded to EXTREME-VIP status. I'd need a special power. Perhaps the ability to delete Comms threads at will.
  4. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
    [image=http://trephination.net/gallery/macros/cliff_notes.jpg]

    CliffsNotes on SLG's post:
    • There are too many VIPs

    • Take VIPship away from mods who don't "deserve" it, like those who were only mods for a few months or less.

    • Take VIPship away from games hosts (mostly in JCC) because they don't need to be VIPs to run their games.

    • Only grant former mods VIPship for the length of time they were a mod.


    There are a couple ways to look at this, I suppose. On one hand, there are definitely more VIPs around the boards than there have ever been in the past. This is mostly because of all the ex-mods who have been granted VIPship, but to a lesser extent I guess it does have to to with there being more games hosts, and probably more official LFL staff/authors/artists as well. You could say that without a doubt, the number of ex-mods is only going to increase. You could probably even say that the number of games hosts may increase if more and more forums start running games like JCC, C&G, and Arena do. By this logic, the forums are only going to become more and more saturated with VIPs, and perhaps we should start doing something about that.

    On the other hand, while you may have a point about a forum like YJCC seemingly having just as many VIPs posting as regular users, I would argue it's really not like that in most of the other JC forums. (Take a look at LACWAC, RPF, Senate, FanFic, Arena, Lit, or any of the films forums, for example.) Not only that, but I'm sure you know that VIPship is actually optional for former mods. So nothing's stopping you or any other ex-mod from requesting that they be reverted back to a regular user.

    So I don't know. I guess there's something to be said about rewarding those who have put a lot of time and work into this place for everyone's benefit. But there's also something to be said about wanting to go back to the days when VIPs were more of a rarity and made you want to be a better user so you could be like them.
  5. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    Well that's pretty much what I said, yeah. But, too many VIPs can be a bad thing. Too little VIPs can't be a bad thing. So yeah it may not be the top priority issue, but it's an easy one to fix with big results.

    As far as VIPs choosing to be demoted, that's not realistic. Very few will do that. And it's not a solution to rely on either.
  6. hudzu Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2003
    star 6
    another solution is to make all the rest of us vip's.
  7. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
    I'm not saying it's a solution, I'm just saying that since you yourself said you don't deserve to be a VIP, you don't have to be one.
  8. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    I didn't know this thread was about that. :confused:
  9. Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 5
    There's an option to turn off the colors, you know...
  10. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    How is that helpful?
  11. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
    The point I'm trying to make is that most former mods know that they can go back to being a regular user any time they want. But why don't they? Because they like the perks that come with being a VIP, whether it's the notoriety or the colors or the exclusion of OPPM. So while this may be one of the few forums where the ratio of VIPs to regular users is much more even, it stands to reason that your idea might not get a lot of support from a lot of Comms regulars.

    That said, I have no problem with revisiting this issue in Mod Squad.
  12. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    Well I know that it won't get a lot of support, but I mean it's just colors. I think anyone given VIPship should be more interested in the greater good of the forum than something so trivial. And yes discussion in MS would be a good start.
  13. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    In my personal opinion, VIP's do no harm to anybody, and I could careless if somebody was a mod for years or 2 seconds, if the rule that an ex-mod is a VIP, then that's the rule. The only thing I really care about (and I've mentioned this to Grimby before) is VIP colors for game hosts.............we really should be able to select any shade of red, not just red.

    They beat Boston!: 2009-2010 L.A. Lakers: Back-to-Back World Champions :cool:
  14. Boba_Fett_2001 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 8
    What does the I stand for?
  15. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    Insane

    They beat Boston!: 2009-2010 L.A. Lakers: Back-to-Back World Champions :cool:
  16. Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 5
    Intimidating. :p

    No, it stands for Important. Which is almost the same anyways.
  17. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    The short and sweet version of this for me is as follows:

    VIP status should only be given to those who are a) FF City Reps; b) involved in Star Wars in an official capacity; c) current TFN staff; d) game/contest winners. That's it. Many of the other categories of users that currently have VIP status can just have a title since we finally repealed that stupid rule about linking titles and VIPship.
  18. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7

    I agree with this 100%
  19. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    Though I don't care really if ex-mods can have any color as a VIP (as long it's one solid color in their name), I think part of the problem for some people (on the aesthetic issue) is that for many, many years, ex-mods were only allowed to be in red, if they chose to remain a VIP. People were used to that, and it helped to set an aesthetic standard for most of the VIP's. That, of course has changed. I'm not speaking for anyone here, but it's an observation I had.

    They beat Boston!: 2009-2010 L.A. Lakers: Back-to-Back World Champions :cool:
  20. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    I rarely get (or like) to say this but... I completely agree with Dingo.
  21. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    And in the interest of the open and honest discussion that I rant about in relation to Comms, here's something I reposted in the thread in MS discussing this. Note that it's from July last year, but for the most part the numbers probably still stand.
  22. World_Cup_Wally Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2010
    star 4
    I agree that it's becoming too easy to get VIP status. Just 3 or so months ago, I thieved someone's answers to the 'Name the Movie Screencap' game and submitted them, and according to the rules in place at the time of that game I should have won 24 hours VIP/colours but was brutally denied by the hand of JTS. Then, just a week or so ago, I again thieved someone's answers to the 'Name the Movie Screencap' game and this time JTS not only awarded me VIP/colours but brutally increased the time period from 24 hours to a WHOLE WEEK!


    But seriously, I can't believe you guys want to take Everton's colours away.


    EDIT: for accuracy
  23. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    We brutally increased the time period, you mean.
  24. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    Given the numbers there, I don't see how game hosts are much of a problem. Then again, I think this whole issue of VIP's is overblown. Are there too many? Perhaps. But, what is the real affect of that? A 'VIP' actually meaning something? This is an internet message board, not a state dinner for a country or a high level meeting with an executive............a 'VIP' is always going to mean different things to different people. There are more pressing things (such as the move, problem users, user traffic, and the such) for the MS to worry about, in my humble opinion. This would be the equivalent of worrying about how many different kinds/brands of pens & pencils an office has. Saying which ex-mods also deserve VIP status (if they so chooose, of course) is also dicey, because time & effort was put in by those people who were mods, and the reasons for them not being one anymore are different/varied. Who is to say they don't deserve it, simply because there weren't mods for as long as other ex-mods (or for as long as some current mods are- but I have no problem with that)? VIP's are more noticeable because user traffic is down, and the color option for ex-mods was changed. I'm also of the opinion, and I know this is radical, that everyone should have the option to have colors in their name, but obviously not titles. Those of course would be reserved for mods, VIP's, etc. But, that naturally would rip a hole in the fabric of space, and ruin human existence, so it couldn't be done.

    They beat Boston!: 2009-2010 L.A. Lakers: Back-to-Back World Champions :cool:
  25. World_Cup_Wally Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2010
    star 4
    Sorry, I'll edit that in right away.
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