Jack, FL What a mess...

Discussion in 'South East Regional Discussion' started by Hama, Nov 28, 2006.

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  1. Hama Retired GSA, Retired RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 6
    Wow. Just wow. Where do I start when trying to sort out the mess that is Jacksonville?

    I would like to thank Twin_solo_Durron, crimsongryphon01, JaxAnakinSkywalker, MAGNIFICENT-SITH, Leia214, jediadigallia, macewndu73, ImperialOrder, REDEYEE, ObiWanAmanda, and Solo51 for posting insightful, considerate, well-thought-out commments. They were greatly appreciated, and I'm sorry you all have had to go through this. Most of all Amanda -- I've gone through and edited out the personal attacks against you in the thread.

    Anakin-and-Padme, I can see why you have a reputation as a troublemaker. Your very first post in the thread is to threaten a lawsuit. That was one of the most childish things I have ever seen. How can you attempt intelligent discourse after a post like that? Multiple people preferred to PM me their thoughts on the issue rather than risk your ire. You're 34 years old according to your profile. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting something like that.

    However, you did make some good points about revamping, which I'll get back to later.

    DairNimiris, you would have had some of the more constructive posts if it wasn't outshadowed by cheap shots at the 501st and FanForce administration (meaning myself).

    I_H8_registering -- bringing Amanda into this was completely uncalled for. Shame on you.

    This brings me to Luis. I'm disappointed in you most of all. Your leadership lately has been deplorable. There's only so many times you can use the "I am the founder and your leader, and I have spoken" and expect it to be effective. This is not the Navy, where orders are given and followed without question. Trying to use that on a bunch of grown (civilian) adults is completely unrealistic. Secondly, you've been pestering me for over a month to ban Chase and Patrice when they have not committed any TOS violation that I can see, nor have they committed any kind of criminal offense or have pending civil litigation (i.e., a restraining order) involving themselves and any other member of the group. As I have explained to you and a few others via PM (who I suspect PM'd me at your request), I cannot and will not ban someone unless one of the aforementioned actions have occurred. Certainly not because they disagree with the way you run things. Also, I do not have the ability to lock an individual out of one forum, either. It's a total ban or none at all. The best you could hope for is asking someone not to post in a particular forum.

    You told me in two separate PMs that "85% of the members" or "87% of the people" wanted Patrice and Chase kicked out. I haven't seen that in the 48 hours or so that the thread was open. Most people just seem to want the drama to end, and you have been the one most instrumental in perpetuating it.

    You blame them for running off 90+ members. Ridiculous. First of all, EVERY FanForce group has had dwindling membership since the post-ROTS frenzy died down. There's no new movie to speculate on or look forward to. That's probably the biggest reason membership is down. People move on. Some probably don't want to join a group that seems to be predominately into costuming. Your group needs a broader appeal -- there's collectors, fan film makers, gamers, and people who just want a group of friends to hang out with on the weekends. And I can't help but believe a few of them don't want to be ordered around by someone who lords his "founder" status over everyone. Even your MySpace nickname is "The Founder." :rolleyes: Hell, I helped found two chapters (Indianapolis and Nashville). No one cares that I did that.

    You ignored my recommendation to talk things out face-to-face, insisting that it be done on the boards. Although I gave consent to your thread proposal, the way you handled yourself was not the way I expect a Chapter Rep to behave. Then you tried to insinuate that I was the origin of the thread. Ludicrous and irresponsible.

    Chase, Patrice -- I certainly can't fly down there and prevent you from attending meetings. You haven'
  2. macewndu73 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Dude, you want me to add you to my friends list??
  3. DarkTrooper85 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2005
    star 1
    well if he our leader goes i go, i have already said this before. so very very dissappointing.
  4. darth-blaze Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    HAMA you said that you never said to open up this to the public, so how about this...This is what you PM me.....

    SO you said I'll support either decision that is made (though I'd certainly rather keep the Jacksonville group here in FanForce).

    If you decide to publicly ask them to leave, I'd recommend letting the rest of the group (the ones that agree with the decision, anyway) about the upcoming announcement and what day/time it will be made. That way, they can all be online to post their support for the decision. The more overwhelming the support, the better. That way it won't look like a small minority making the decision.

    If the two of them are kicked out of the group, here's what I can and can't do to help:

    I can't prevent them from reading posts in the forum. To keep them from finding the location of upcoming events, you might need to say "PM me for details" or send the specifics on an email list to the group.
    There's no way to physically ban them from one board -- it's either ban them from all the boards or none. I can, however, warn them that future posts on the Jacksonville board will result in bans of ever-increasing length (24 hours, 48 hours, 96 hours, one week, two weeks, etc.).
    We have a feature called "User Admin Notes" where I can make their posting restrictions known to the other Administrators on TFN.

    Keep in mind that kicking any member out of a group is bound to be divisive among the rest of the members. You might have a couple more decide to leave out of anger/frustration. Make sure that it's definitely going to be in the best interest of the group (or the majority, at least).

    Oh, and if you make an announcement like that, make sure you let me know when it's going to be so that I can keep an eye on the thread for troublemakers.


    You close the post before everybody got to post, I wonder....

    Anyways I was gonna leave anyways so here is what I was gonna post this morning but You close the thread.....

    HAMA I know you want to keep the group in the Fan Force boards but I?m afraid that I have to do this ??I no longer wish to be the CR of Jacksonville, FL. I will form another group away from the Fan Force. Chase you win, you can keep the group, I mean you can keep your 5 members?.Good luck running it. I gracefully bow out. Oh by the way Chase, You will see what happends to the "group after we completely pull out" Is not self-sufficient like you thought.

    PS. before I forget this group covered all the aspects of the saga.
    To all my TRUE FRIENDS we will open a new group, stand by, we will call you with the details. Thanks to everybody for your support, and to all the people that never got to post but still call me thanks
  5. DairNimiris Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    star 2
    Yeah, that's graceful all right.

    Hama, I'm going to say this with complete honesty, I was not attacking you at all. If you have questions on that, perhaps I can clarify it. As for the 501st, I'll admit I was harsh, but frankly I wasn't the one who brought them into the discussion. Anyone who enters a debate is open game for criticism, and my shots weren't cheap, at all. That said, you could have been a lot harder on me about all of this, so really I have no place to gripe. Just wanted you to know that I don't have any qualms with how you handled this.

    You guys (the comedy group) ever going to tour down here to J-town?
  6. Twin_solo_Durron Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 2
    Hama,
    I would just like to say your welcome.

    Lu- i would also like to say thank you . i am sry that it has to end like this but thank you for all that you have done and for all that you have brought me.
  7. JaxAnakinSkywalker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2006
    star 3
    I want to say thank you, Hama. I am happy to still be a member. Though I still hold the stance of there not being a commander. Our group should decide things as such, a group. Hama, if you need a CR for the chapter in Jacksonville, you have seen our active members enough to make an informed decision I believe.

    Luis, it was never ultimately about winning or losing. I meant everything I have said to you. I still do not see you, Brian, Chris, Tina, etc. as my enemies. I never have and I do not want control of this group. I have only wanted it to be a freer environment. All of you are welcome to still come to a meeting where we can decide face-to-face what direction this group should go in. I think you really do lose if you completely chose to give up on us that have been with you this past year and all the great things we have managed to pull off. I think there are great areas to grow into that we haven't even considered yet.

    Everyone that showed support for me, I greatly thank you. You know everything that I say here is true, and that I only want to have fun as part of all of this.

    We do have some new things coming up along with some new ideas. As before, after the new year, we should meet and discuss what we all want to do next.

    I pray that grudges can be dropped and we can truly learn to work together to bring the FCJK to it's true potential.
  8. DarkTrooper85 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2005
    star 1
    Cant help but think about the song The hand that feeds by Nine inch nails........what a shame
  9. Anakin-and-Padme Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2005
    star 3
    HAMA - Thank you for your post and your decision. I apologize that you saw my original post in the other thread as childish. Perhaps it was wrong and I will accept responsibility for it as such. I thank you for recognizing that I can make some good and bit more mature posts in how the group can possibly be mended. I certainly hope that this really can facilitate just that in the group.

    I can't wait until the next meeting after the holidays. I will be happy to watch the group grow again without the cloud of old issues that has hung over it for the past year. It is great for everyone who chooses to remain loyal to the group that this is finally over and we can get back to drama free business.

  10. Hama Retired GSA, Retired RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 6
    Dwight -- I won't take anything you said in the other thread personally. Heck, if I was in your position, I might have thought the admins had no common sense, too. No plans to go on tour with the comedy group in the near future, but if anyone here makes the trip up to Nashville, your ticket is on me.

    Chase -- The decision on a new CR will not be up to me. That's for the group to decide democratically. I'd recommend waiting a while for things to settle down before making a decision like that. Maybe have a group meeting or two first to settle old differences and ease any hard feelings that might be left over.

    Jacksonville has been and always will be a valued chapter of FanForce. I look forward to working with the group in the future. Healing will take time after all this, but things will get better.
  11. Sithmauler Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2006
    What happend, I didn't get to say nothing. Oh well. I don't know about this group, I think I'm with darthblaze. I remembered that when I started posting here anakin-and-padme picked on me also. And now we darth-blaze along with more members. I'm out of here. darth-blaze I will pm you, that's if you are still reading the boards.
  12. Skaught Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2001
    star 2
    They were far from accurate, though.

    Scott
  13. DairNimiris Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    star 2
    That's fair. So defend it. I've already given examples to support my claims - not to mention the fact that this whole issue was started and fueld by 501st members.

    I could be wrong, sure. I'd bow to that. But so far the arguements presented have been various forms of "Nuh-uh!" Which, I've been hearing since kindergarden.
  14. Skaught Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2001
    star 2
    Will do.

    The 501st feature well over 3,000 members from 21 countries and is growing each day. Since you have met only a tiny fraction of these people, you can not accurately make this claim.

    Since you do not have any knowledge of the 501st leadership's current or future plans, you have no basis for stating that the organization has "lost their way". To the contrary, the 501st Legion has been very consistent with their mission. Our efforts to assist charities has increased. When the founder of the Legion's daughter fell ill, our membership rallied to the cause and raised thousands upon thousands of dollars to assist with medical and personal expenses. As this holiday season approaches, the 501st Legion is active in a variety of charitable events, both nationally as well as locally in our state. Looking beyond the Legion's charitable work, the 501st is very active in the Star Wars fan community. We've been asked to take the lead, again, for the Celebration IV volunteer organization. Lucasfilm is flying over 200 of our members to Pasadena, CA for the Tournament of Roses Parade. Locally, we're active in most every major and minor convention, get invited to march at Disney year after year, and participate in countless other events. As a result of our forward progress and the respect we've earned for our work, Lucasfilm wrote the 501st Legion into the official Star Wars storlyine. People can now buy action figures of the 501st Legion, read books and comics featuring Legion characters, and even play a video game centered around the 501st. All this was due to the contributions and dedication of all of our members.

    This is hardly something I would described as "lost".

    Confusing having standards that we enforce is not the same as being "snobbish". On one hand you make fun of over weight members, and then on the other you accuse us of being "snobbish". Which is it? We accept ALL people, regardless of their physical appearance. We don't reject over weight applicants, as apparently you would have us do. Nor short applicants. Nor tall applicants, black applicants, rich applicants, white applicants, poor applicants, or even wheelchair bound applicants. We only require that they have a quality Star Wars costume. It's because of our standards that we receive the kind of attention that we do. Heck, even LFL says our suits are better than those used in the movies.

    The "501st" told you no such thing. Maybe some local members said they weren't interested, but the 501st as an organization did not. We are always interested in helping with fan films. We do it all the time. I've been in a couple myself. We've never told any film maker that we weren't interested in a fan film, unless there were legal issues that would make such participation unwise (such as the film makers seeking to make a profit). And in these rare cases, it was at the request of LFL.

    The 501st never "thumbed its nose at" you, nor did the 501st ever take anyone's side. So again, inaccurate. What 501st members choose to do on their own, as private individuals, is their business. But what they do or who they side with is not official or even unofficial 501st policy. I don't even know who Julia is.

  15. DairNimiris Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    star 2
    Fair.

    No but it certainly illustrates my point of snobbery. "We're not self-centered! Why, just look at all the wonderful things we've done to promote ourselves and help ourselves out!"


    You completely avoided the issue. It's not about having standards. It's about how selective you are in enforcing those standards. Even now you're speaking out of two sides of your mouth. "We have standards." "We accept everybody." "We only require quality costumes." "He can't join because his sash is black, not dark-dark-dark-dark-almost-black-brown."

    To your credit, yes. Your costumes are incredibly high quality. But so are those of people who the 501st has rejected. You can come here and defend yourself and that's fine. I'll take it where I deserve it. But let's be honest with ourselves. My qualms are obviously with local branches of the 501st. If you have a problem with that, then defend that. I'm not here to attack a global organization. That's stupid. You're either trying to bat off legitimate criticisms with semantics or you misunderstood the context of this entire highschool drama.

  16. Skaught Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2001
    star 2
    When you make statements like the 501st has "lost its way" and that the 501st is "snobbish", you aren't referencing the 15-odd members based in Jacksonville. You're referencing the entire organization. And it's on that level that I addressed your statements. If that is not what you meant, you need to take more care in your words, because you didn't say what you now claim you meant. But even on that level, the accusations are not accurate. You're having some issues with individuals, not the organization -- or even local organization -- of the 501st.

    Scott
  17. DairNimiris Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    star 2
    Well, no. I am having an issue with the local branch if the local branch refuses to look into the situation and keep its members in check.

    When I am in a debate or arguement with people close to home about things that involve the people I am arguing/debating with, I'm not compelled to write out my thoughts in such a way so as people who are not involved - and have no reason to jump in - can understand everything that's transpired. It's not my job to spell everything out. If people want to chime in, then people need to educate themselves with what and whom they're dealing with. I assume that those people involved understand the context of the discussion because they are the context. I don't have to watch and pick and choose my words. I don't have to clarify what I meant to you. It's not my fault that certain people have soft skin and are easily offended and choose to jump into something before looking over everything that has transpired and lead up to this. Nobody forced you to come but you did. I clarified for you because I'm a nice guy. Don't think for a minute that I felt obligated to do so. Frankly the whole bush beating, chest thumping is getting tiring.

    At this point, you are partially right. I do have a problem with the 15+/- members of the Florida 501st. They've been nothing but drama. I don't know you, Scott. You seem decent. You obviously have enough conviction of your beliefs to read through my lengthy posts and take each individual claim to task and I admire that because it shows a level a maturity not many people can claim today. So I'm not out to be your enemy. But to try and dissaciate your group with 15+/- people from your group is questionable. You've got 10+ people starting trouble with others. 10+ people that bear your name, carry your cards, advertize your group and represent who the 501st are. I'm not going to question your leadership or management skills. I don't know what role you play. But if I were in leadership, I'd be slapping a few wrists, or at the very least making an open statement that I do not condone the actions of said members of my organiztion, as evident when I openly said I did not condone bringing Luis' personal life into the previous debate.

  18. jediadigallia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 1
    Dwight, Would you mind, for clarifiaction, spelling out what each of the 10+ individuals in the local 501st branch did that offends you so? Is it something that each one of the 10+ has done individually? Would you please address the actions that warrant a "wrist slapping" from local management? Feel free to PM each one if you choose to do so.
  19. Skaught Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2001
    star 2
    I don't believe I've ever had problems with 15+/- people before that the same time. Since there's nothing inherant in being a member of the 501st that would make our members more prone to trouble causing, I find that having an entire population of our members being the source of difficult a bit hard to swallow. Occam's Razor would lead me to other conclusions.

    Scott
  20. Hama Retired GSA, Retired RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 6
    Anybody have serious objections to me deleting the "REVAMPING" thread? Seems like it'd make it easier for everyone to move on if it's no longer there.

    If not, I'll delete it in 24 hours.
  21. JaxAnakinSkywalker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2006
    star 3
    I have no problem with deleting this thread, but it doesn't mean it won't show up on another, as it has between the same members on several. We have a real issue here and it is obvious that we all want to work them out, or we wouldn't continue to come back for more...

    I would personally like to bring everyone here to the meeting when we have it in 2007 and postpone discussion, or call a truce, until then. I think that if it has been worth a year of argument here, it is worth an evening of calm face-to-face discussion. The forum of the meeting is still to be decided, so how about we start there? This will not end until then. We are all in Jax and we all want to be a part of this group obviously. We have no problems that can't be fixed, so let's do it.

    True personal feelings cannot be changed by argument, but there are things that can be fixed and changed. I know those who have supported me are with me on this. I'm calling out to bring everyone else to the table also.
  22. crimsongryphon01 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 17, 2006
    ***tiny note***
    We arn't all in JAX. :)
  23. darth-blaze Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Dwight, You seem like you can't drop the case.
  24. Anakin-and-Padme Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2005
    star 3
    Hmmm, gas money pool for crimsongryphon needs to be on the agenda too :)
  25. darth-blaze Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    can you please update Your website, thank you.
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