PT What was Sidious plan in TPM?

I am asking this because the movie does not seem entirely clear on what it is. First there is that scene were Qui Gone tells Amidala that she will be murdered on Naboo by some mysterious force working behind the trade federation. Then Sidious tries to get Amidala to sign a treaty that gives the trade federation a stronger grip on Naboo by sending Darth Maul after her. However then it gets even more complicated when Darth Sidious as Palpatine tells Amidala to stay on coruscant because going back to Naboo would be to dangerous.

The only two ways I can make sense of this is if Sidious originally wanted to kill queen Amidala after she signs the treaty in order to create enough outrage within the senate for him to be able replace chancellor Valorum and that unless the treaty was signed nobody other then him would have dared to challenge the invasion but then when he gets the position without having to go through all that trouble he loses all interest in having Amidala killed. Why he cares enough about Amidala to tell her to stay is still a mystery and the fact that Darth Plaguise the wise was still alive at that point and that he according to the EU and that Sidious might not have had the same plan as his master does not make the situation any less complicated.The other possibility it that Sidious wanted the trade federation to became a much bigger threat then they ultimately were and that a conflict between them and the republic would have been enough to make him the emperor. In other words he did not want Rune and Gunray to lose so soon. Still does not explain why he wanted Amidala to stay. Had he intended to assassinate her himself?

So what do you think. Over complicated story telling or just lazy writing?

 

Sidious's plans were flexible when need be. In TPM all he needs/wants is to destabilize the Republic. If the Queen was forced to sign a treaty with the Trade Federation and then murdered then it had the possibility to fan the flames of dissent. However she escaped Naboo without signing the treaty and her training worked in his favor. The Legislative Youth Program that Padme attended had taught her that the Republic was 'all powerful' and if someone was breaking the law that it would be righted. This is why she had faith that the Senate would side with her over the blockade. Because she saw what was happening on Tatooine and that the Senate didn't care about the planet that apparently is in Republic Space (my personal jury is still out on whether or not Tatooine is/was a Republic World that had been abandoned by the Senate since they didn't want to fight the Hutts). All Sidious then has to do is whisper the right words to her and play on her fears.

I do think that he was planning/hoping that she would be killed since as I stated earlier that it would or could lead to dissent and anger in the Senate and the rest of the galaxy. However his plans had to be flexible in order for him to hopefully take over the galaxy.

 

Very simple storytelling and brilliant writing. The complexity is in the details which are in constant flux because things change and Sidious can adapt to them.

He wants to be Chancellor.

Obstacles are constantly thrown in his way and he still succeeds despite the loss of his apprentice.

BTW he takes a keen interest in young Anakin's Skywalker's future.

 

Neither. Palpatine had it set up so that he'd (probably) win no matter what happened. If Amidala had been killed, Palpatine would've called for a vote of no confidence and gained lots of sympathy votes. That was Plan A (All that talk about the treaty was just to keep Gunray on board. Palpatine knew that Amidala would refuse and he would then scare the neimoidians into having her executed).
Plan B was what happened in the movie. When Palpatine begged Amidala to stay, he was just playing good guy.

 

Palpataine's plans were like the force, always moving, always changing. He was ready to adapt where need be and improvise. The important thing was to start a serious Separatist group to take a stab at the Republic. He was heading that, and in his other life as a politician he was getting ready to start climbing the steps to becoming the Supreme Chancellor. As Lulu said above me, he was brilliant and he had it set up so no matter what, he would come out on top. He was still getting ready to start a war eventually, as that would not only make the Republic more battered and vulnerable, it would always ensure the Jedi's numbers were dwindled down the slightest bit. Anakin falling into his lap was just a cherry ontop of the sundae.

 

Palpatine's goal was to undermine Valorum's position as Chancellor so that he could replace him. That's why he had the Trade Federation target Naboo in the first place . . . so that members of the Senate would be sympathetic to his homeworld's plight.

 

What LZM65 said.

He basically wanted to be Chancellor. Pretty much it.

 

The plan was: Create a crisis that would allow Senator Palpatine to become Chancellor and begin taking over the Universe.

As soon as you know Palpatine and Sidious are the same character, it's perfectly obvious what's going on.

He isn't really interested in treaty's, trade route's, taxation, etc... At all. He know's the Trade Federation is interested in these things and he is playing along, presumably because the more Naboo appears to be "under duress" the more his position as Naboo's senator is bolstered, but the only real goal is to begin taking over TGFFA by first going from Senator to Chancellor and then ultimately going from Chancellor to Emperor...

And BTW, when he plead's with Amidala to stay on Coruscant "where it's safe" he is quite obviously being disingenuous and can't wait for her to get herself back to Naboo so he can have her killed - Hence that sly little smile when she exit's his office to begin her journey back to Naboo and it's the same in AOTC when he say's to her " The thought of losing you... Is unbearable"

 

Ian's basically acting in a way to portray someone, who is acting, poorly. So while some may claim his acting was bad at this point, it was actually quite brilliant.

Btw I always thought that scene was pretty badly acted by him until I realized what he was doing

 

My guess is the Trade Federation invades, the queen is made to sign the treaty. She refuses and is killed by them. Palpatine uses her death as a stepping stone to call for an election of no-confidence to become Chancellor himself. The Jedi are then sent to Naboo to force the Federation to leave on orders of the Republic.

I don't know who Sidious will get to run the separatist movement when Maul hardly talks. He won't be that good at leading a civil war against the Republic.

 

Read Cloak Of Deception. It explains his plans.

 

Reading the book Darth Plagueis helps enlighten the whole idea that Plagueis and Sidious had in TPM.

 

I haven't read any of the books around this era (definitely on my list though). But when I watched TPM, I always assumed that Palpatine needed the TF to do something both bold, e.g. invade and control Naboo to humiliate Valorum, AND legal, so that the TF could remain a power to threaten the republic. I think Palpatine was so intent on getting the treaty signed because, then, the republic would have no legal recourse and the TF would remain in power and embolden other outer rim organizations to defy the republic thus starting the war. However once Amidala reached Coruscant, Palpatine was forced to improvise. He capitalized on the Amidala giving him sympathy votes, and became the Supreme Chancellor earlier than he expected. However, since the TF could not get the treaty signed, and indeed actually lost control of Naboo, Palpatine's plan was set back a good amount of time. It took 10 years to rebuild the TF until they were able to start the war.

 

The purpose of the treaty is to have proof that the TF has in fact crossed the point of no return by invading and occupying Naboo. Remember, at the Senate they denied they had invaded. Killing Amidala would be the cherry on top. Palpatine's M.O. is to stir up trouble while arousing sympathy for himself by playing the victim. What better way to get sympathy than by a dastardly attack on his own planet, plus the cold-blooded murder of an adolescent girl?

Palpatine is like the villains in two classic westerns: The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and Rough Night In Jericho. In the former, the main villains remain off screen. You only see their henchmen doing their dirty work. One of these flunkies is Liberty Valance, a bandit and all-around thug. His goal is to undermine any kind of government or the rule of law in the territory by attacking lawyers, lawmen and newspapers -and doing it in the open in broad daylight as a way of showing that Valance's employers are the ones running the territory.

The latter film has a villain who is taking over a town by undermining the forces of law and order and setting himself up as despot. One way he does this is by having a mob drag an innocent man out of a jail and lynching him in front of the whole town. When everyone sees how the sheriff was unable to stop the lynching, or bring the killers to justice, he is run out of town in disgrace.

In all three cases, the bad guys are doing something brazen and outrageous for the sole purpose of making the forces of law and order look weak and useless to the general public.

 

It always seemed to me Palpatine was using Naboo to gain power. Then Valorum brought the Jedi in without the senate knowing, but somehow Palpatine knew. Palpatine saw a chance to test his apprentice. So he sent Maul to find her and the Jedi. Palpatine was using Padme and Naboo to get Valorum voted out with him voted in. Nute Gunray was the scapegoat and eventually passed off to Dooku. Nute Gunray was the viewed as villain at the end of the film, just as Dooku was viewed as the villain of AOTC.

 

Another point to this - the Trade Federation blockaded Naboo to protest the taxation of trade routes in the outlying systems, something passed by the Senate while Vallorum was Chancellor. Palpatine even brings it up in the Senate Rotunda, saying that a crime had been committed, and it started right there with the tax, and had now engulfed the Naboo system.No doubt, Palpatine helped orchestrate this taxation law that was passed, which seemingly hurt the Trade Federation in it's pocketbboks. Then, as Sidious, he was able to, likely with little coercion,
convince them to blockade Naboo to protest this taxation law that it seems had just recently passed.

It's ingenious by Sidious. He helps pass the law, which is the impetus for the Trade Federation to invade, which gives him the strong sympathy votes to become Chancellor. And all right in front of Vallorum, whose position he weakened with the upmost ease.
,

 

Palpatines back story doesnt get enough credit. Palpatine taking over the galaxy is one of the best part of the PT-Clone Wars era of Star Wars. He plays chess with so many pieces. Nute, Dooku, Padme, Maul, Lama Su, the Jedi, Tarkin, Anakin etc etc. He put things in motion.

 

To use the Naboo crisis to become chancellor. Either through using the crisis to slowly discredit Valorum and prop himself up or, what ultimately happened, through a sympathy vote.

TPM is kind of weird - the good guys seemed victorious (and they were), but the bad guys actually won.

 

Not very different from AOTC as well...

However, with AOTC we get that moment at the end where Sidious and Tyranus meet telling us that the bad guys actually won, we don't get that in TPM, just the camera cryptically focusing in on Palpatine...

 

Was Darth Maul dying and the Jedi learning the Sith had survived part of the plan? Sidious really risked a lot sending Maul to capture the Queen, so that was very imporant for him. What would Maul's role have been if he hadn't died? With or without Maul it would take ten years for the Clone Army to be ready. On the Clone Wars when Maul learns about the war he says something like "So it began without me." Did Sidious really see Maul or Dooku as his potential successor?

No doubt Sidious's plan worked. But it cost him Maul and the secret of the Sith. I wonder what would have happened in the best case scenario.

 

Sidious had no need for a successor because he planned to live forever.

 

Revealing the existence of the Sith was part of Palpatine's plan. It distracted the Jedi from Palpatine's real plans for laying the foundation of the Clone Wars.

 

Well if you think about it - Padme was the Queen of Naboo more or less AND the fact how she represented Naboo AND the fact how she may have been young and idealistic BUT in the long run she did contribute much to the fate of the Galaxy - and perhaps if you think about it - given Palpatine's famous 'everything has proceeded as I have foreseen' amid this claim - perhaps he did have a degree of Force Precognition and the fact how Naboo in the EU - well the Darth Plagueis novel had vast reserves of Plasma for starters ... and the fact how if by sheer dumb luck had Padme been killed or such and all the way exposed Palpatine and Darth Plagueis - well their plans could have taken a severe left turn ... if you think about it ... PLUS the fact if you think simply put Palpatine was carrying out the Sith Grand Scheme - only difference was that he had no intentions of allowing Darth Plagueis to be the true 'Power behind the Scenes' ... and the fact how if Padme also had the Vote of No Confidence - you know - just another useful pawn in Palpatine's plans ... and you don't want your pawns in the long run to be lost or killed eh?

Indeed mes520 - Palpatine 'NEVER GAVE A FORCE!' about anyone ... even loyal subordinates - just discards them like trash and worthless garbage once they're no longer useful to him ... and consider in the EU and Darth Plagueis novel how he was 'FORCED TO SHEE-VER IN NAKED FRIGID UNCOMPROMISING COLD WASTES OF MYGEETO AND BEING FORCED TO RECALL THE ANGUISH HOW HE MURDERED HOUSE PALPATINE' ... and the fact how Palpatine - if he killed Darth Plagueis and yet if he murdered House Palpatine at just 17 and even before then already caused the deaths of 2 civilians in speed-racing ... what are the odds he'd show compassion to anyone eh? I mean given if he was close to abandoning Anakin due to Anakin STUPIDLY ending being half-baked on Mustafar ...

Yet ironic Palpatine was 'FORCED' to rely on Essence Transfer eh?

 

Was it?
Maul was sent to kill the two Jedi and bring Padme back to Naboo. Had he succeeded then the Jedi order would not know anything.

For this to make sense, you have to assume that Palpatine sent Maul but knew he would fail.

@Darth Mikey

Small correction, Palpatine says a "Tragedy" has occurred and that it started with the taxation of trade routes. Now why would it be tragic to tax some rich and greedy merchants?

That line makes better sense if the TF are the ones doing the taxing. They have been given the right to tax the trade routes in exchange for providing security along those routes and dealing with piracy.
But they have raised the taxes so much and now Naboo refuses to pay. And that is why the TF blockade them and this also explains why the blockade is legal.

@elfdart

Why would the treaty be more proof than Padme appearing in the senate herself and tell them about the invasion?
The senate apparently doesn't believe Padme and doesn't do anything.
So why would they care about some treaty?

Esp since the TF seems to have done similar things to many other systems.
In TPM, when they fell Naboo, they comment that most systems they can reach are controlled by the TF. So the TF gaining control over systems seems to be quite common.

@Delta RC-1138

What war?
If you mean the clone war then you forget that by the time of TPM, there was no clone army.
The republic had no army so if the TF declared war, they would have won in a matter of days.

Given AotC, one wonders what the senate could have actually done if they had believed Padme.
They have no army apart from the Jedi. So they can't take Naboo by force. If they get too bold, the TF could just attack Coruscant and take it over.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

Um, no. The tragedy is quite clearly the blockade of Naboo. Palpatine merely connects this tragedy to what he claims led to it, which was the taxation of the trade routes, which in turn led to the Trade Federation opting for a blockade. What he obviously doesn't mention is that he was behind the TF going that way, and that he chose Naboo as the target for it, because it would give him - as representative of Naboo - sympathy in the senate. All he does, is set up a link between the end-result and the first step that happened in the senate. Similarly to how people like to connect the Treaty of Versailles and the rise of the Nazis. Now, you can claim that the treaty caused some of the circumstances that allowed the Nazis to rise, but you quite clearly can't base WW2 or the holocaust purely on that treaty. The same is very much true here. The taxation is NOT the tragedy.

Seeing how the Trade Federation was punished by courts and ended up being worse off, with the desire for revenge rising in Nute Gunray, it seems quite clear that the senate most definately had the means to do something about it. If it didn't, the Trade Federation could just have used its army to free Gunray and take over the Republic, something they quite clearly didn't do. Economic sanctions can have quite the impact, and you don't need any military for that.